Toft ATB vs Trident 8T : audio samples - Page 2

Ciozzi · 16th February 2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasoundjunkie

First of all thanx for the tests!

Now I'd really like to know which is which?

I'll say which is which... but not yet! If I have time tomorrow I'll perform some quick summing tests.

Hope you're enjoying this shootout

Ciozzi · 16th February 2008, 05:43 PM

Currently performing some tests on the mix buss. I'll post the results later...

dasoundjunkie · 16th February 2008, 06:08 PM

Ok ! By the way , I had the Toft ec-1 channel strip in here a couple of days ago and really liked the eq on it. The compressor was very good but took some getting used to since it was nowhere near as aggressive as my 1176 ( the only FET compressor I have). It was much smoother , really good for making something sit in a mix transparently without calling a lot of attention to itself. I didn't get a chance to try the mic-pre (only had it for an hour). I'm definitely getting 2 of the EQs! (you can get 4 channels for under grand!!!) great stuff for little money.

Ciozzi · 16th February 2008, 07:45 PM

Work in progress, today I've tested the mix buss on the console A. I recorded six samples at different volumes, from low peak levels all the way up until squashing the buss.

In the end I took the console back to normal gain settings and used a Pendulum PL2 (brick wall peak limiter) to squash the buss by the same amount previously achived by gain staging.

Console B is now waiting to be tested

Guys, this is really fun! I think it's really worth it (at least for me) even if takes a shit load of time

NathanEldred · 17th February 2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

Work in progress, today I've tested the mix buss on the console A. I recorded six samples at different volumes, from low peak levels all the way up until squashing the buss.

In the end I took the console back to normal gain settings and used a Pendulum PL2 (brick wall peak limiter) to squash the buss by the same amount previously achived by gain staging.

Console B is now waiting to be tested

Guys, this is really fun! I think it's really worth it (at least for me) even if takes a shit load of time

Thanks for doing that, looking forward to the results.

ricfoxx · 17th February 2008, 12:42 PM

I had it and it sounds like Console A of the first tests. In the Eq tests its harder for me to differentiate but it seems the different consoles effects the Frequencies around the cut/boost the most. Console B was fatter but also muddier and Console A was cleaner and a little thinner but had an interesting vibe to it. I would use Console A's pres for some Vox and Acoustic Guitars maybe Overheads and B for everything else. Cool test. Very different sounding Pres.

Ciozzi · 18th February 2008, 01:36 AM

I've got a problem...

How can I tame the outputs of the console without affecting the signal ? Pushing the buss the console makes the input stage of the PL2 clip

Any ideas ?

Snatchman · 18th February 2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

I've got a problem...

How can I tame the outputs of the console without affecting the signal ? Pushing the buss the console makes the input stage of the PL2 clip

Any ideas ?

Humm..You would think the Pendulum would be able to handle the outputs of these consoles. They must have VERY hot outputs or maybe sumpin's wrong with the Pendulum?....

Ciozzi · 18th February 2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Humm..You would think the Pendulum would be able to handle the outputs of these consoles. They must have VERY hot outputs or maybe sumpin's wrong with the Pendulum?....

The PL2 has three knobs... it's very difficult to get mixed up...

Input gain was at 0 dB, output counterclockwise (to prevent the AD stage from clipping) and ceiling at +22.

At a certain point the limiting starts to take place (the signal clips over +22 probably, and obviously the test from here to go, is not fair anymore). Driving the outputs even further I see the gain reduction on the pendulum reaching 4 dBs and at this point if I keep raising the volume on the console I hear horrible clicks and noises.

To determine what was clipping I brought the master output down on the console so the limiter on the PL2 was not working and increased the input gain on the same unit with the ceiling set at +22 dB. Same thing again (but this time the console is at normal gain staging), the limiting starts, the gain reduction reaches 4 dB and from there to go horrible clicks and noises again.

Am I missing something or the PL2 is clipping ?

Snatchman · 18th February 2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

The PL2 has three knobs... it's very difficult to get mixed up...

Input gain was at 0 dB, output counterclockwise (to prevent the AD stage from clipping) and ceiling at +22.

At a certain point the limiting starts to take place (the signal clips over +22 probably, and obviously the test from here to go, is not fair anymore). Driving the outputs even further I see the gain reduction on the pendulum reaching 4 dBs and at this point if I keep raising the volume on the console I hear horrible clicks and noises.

To determine what was clipping I brought the master output down on the console so the limiter on the PL2 was not working and increased the input gain on the same unit with the ceiling set at +22 dB. Same thing again (but this time the console is at normal gain staging), the limiting starts, the gain reduction reaches 4 dB and from there to go horrible clicks and noises again.

Am I missing something or the PL2 is clipping ?

Do the Pendulum have a +4 / -10 switch on it? ( maybe it's set to -10?).. I could be wrong ( definately have been before...

..) but I would think the Pendulum would accept a line-level signal at unity gain without clipping. Hence the reason I say maybe somethings wrong with it? I mean my Behringer Master-Com 2 Buss Compressor...

.. will accept the +29 output from my Tascam M-2600mkII console at unity without clipping the inputs. What are you levels coming into your channels input of these two consoles?

Ciozzi · 18th February 2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Do the Pendulum have a +4 / -10 switch on it? ( maybe it's set to -10?).. I could be wrong ( definately have been before...

..) but I would think the Pendulum would accept a line-level signal at unity gain without clipping. Hence the reason I say maybe somethings wrong with it? I mean my Behringer Master-Com 2 Buss Compressor...

.. will accept the +29 output from my Tascam M-2600mkII console at unity without clipping the inputs. What are you levels coming into your channels input of these two consoles?

No swtiches on it... check it out yourself: Pendulum PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Analog Peak Limiter , and the manual says that the maximum output level is 27 dBu.

I was thinking about connecting the console with an unbalanced cable (-6dB) but it could be not enough...

If there's someone that still wants to listen to the mix buss samples, his help would be really appreciated

Snatchman · 18th February 2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

No swtiches on it... check it out yourself: Pendulum PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Analog Peak Limiter , and the manual says that the maximum output level is 27 dBu.

I was thinking about connecting the console with an unbalanced cable (-6dB) but it could be not enough...

If there's someone that still wants to listen to the mix buss samples, his help would be really appreciated

Hello. I just looked at the site. Yep..no switches, but a nice looking piece of gear reguardless!...

....Hummmm....maybe someone take really knows this piece will chime in. I would like to hear the samples tho'. Good luck...

Geoff_T · 19th February 2008, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

I've got a problem...

How can I tame the outputs of the console without affecting the signal ? Pushing the buss the console makes the input stage of the PL2 clip

Any ideas ?

Hi

Ride the channel faders back a smidgen so that you don't build up a crazy mix level?

Joram · 19th February 2008, 12:31 PM

B has some weird phase behaviour. But it might be a more accurate version of the channel coming out of the DAW (cubase?).
Somehow I like B better than A, strange .... Dunno why (perhaps because I'm busy with something else in my head?)

cynics1207 · 19th February 2008, 03:43 PM

interesting! btw, joram= john oram?

Joram · 19th February 2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynics1207

interesting! btw, joram= john oram?

Ciozzi · 19th February 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynics1207

interesting! btw, joram= john oram?

lol. This is a good one

Infernal Device · 19th February 2008, 04:40 PM

I really enjoyed this! Thanks for it!

For me, I liked A. I think that there is some little sparkle in upper mids that jumps out a bit.

There is a push in the low end of B for sure, but I bet it would pile up too much for tracking and mixing on every channel.

Larrysings · 19th February 2008, 11:19 PM

A sounds good: nice mids, B is a little off comparatively.

What's the answer?

qubi · 19th February 2008, 11:36 PM

Guitar: A.. B, as mentioned by a few, has something off, phasey about it
Vocals: B..

A is clear and fine, but for some reason, especially on B, it just seams like there is more audio info there, like it it can take eq better and be sculpted more. A is more of a "here it is, take or leave it".. does that make any sense??

ok, just tried to eq in logic.. B is a lot fuller, esp. in the lows. just more harmonically rich.. but i can't quite get the strangeness of the guitar on B.. Like i said, "A" is good, like a mackie is "good", but once you push the eq, gets harsh..

Ok.. what's what????????

Paul_G · 20th February 2008, 08:44 AM

Overall so far I preferred B, i think it is more flattering to digital signals.
PG

Bushmaster5000 · 20th February 2008, 10:00 AM

My guess: A is the 8T

Sounds how I remember; very clean, low noise, just lacks a bit of drive for my taste.

Ciozzi · 20th February 2008, 10:06 AM

It's interesting how one's warmth is another one's dull...

Anyway I just want to spend some words about the guitar samples, where most of people's preferences split. As I already said the sound was very placement dependant and I could have made one of the consoles sound better than the other. That's the reason why I took three samples, one from very close where console A has a more balanced sound, from three feet where console B has more detail and the and low-end isn't gone and the last one with the eq engaged in order for you to have a better understanding of the "edge" of the two preamps, that is the biggest difference to me, at least in this case.

For the answer you'll have to wait guys, the session I'm having right now is going to finish this evening, if I'm not too tired I'll take the last mix buss samples, post the results and then the answer.

Right ?

jeronimo · 20th February 2008, 02:53 PM

looking foward to hear the mix buss test

jacko · 22nd February 2008, 01:16 AM

what's going on? I can't wait! :)

Audio Hombre · 22nd February 2008, 08:12 PM

this is taking so long i forgot about it

dasoundjunkie · 23rd February 2008, 05:00 AM

Yeah witch one is it ?

zoink · 23rd February 2008, 05:22 AM

i prefer B every step of the way. A doesn't get much love from me. now, which on is which.

i own one of the two consoles...

Energie · 23rd February 2008, 06:22 AM

Kinda getting tired of checking this post to see if the answer of which is which has been posted yet, hasn't it been like 2 weeks?? HA, please, can you let us know which one is which. thank ya kindly.

3rd&4thT · 23rd February 2008, 06:38 AM

Relax. Once I had to wait two years to hear the punch line of a joke.

It was worth it.

3rd&4thT

17th February 2008, 12:42 PM	#36
ricfoxx Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 223	The 8T... I know I had it and it sounds like Console A of the first tests. In the Eq tests its harder for me to differentiate but it seems the different consoles effects the Frequencies around the cut/boost the most. Console B was fatter but also muddier and Console A was cleaner and a little thinner but had an interesting vibe to it. I would use Console A's pres for some Vox and Acoustic Guitars maybe Overheads and B for everything else. Cool test. Very different sounding Pres. __________________ Roc n SoL Studios www.myspace.com/rocinsol

19th February 2008, 12:31 PM	#44
Joram Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 91	B has some weird phase behaviour. But it might be a more accurate version of the channel coming out of the DAW (cubase?). Somehow I like B better than A, strange .... Dunno why (perhaps because I'm busy with something else in my head?) __________________ http://www.myspace.com/joram_mix_record

19th February 2008, 04:40 PM	#48
Infernal Device Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: USA Posts: 606	I really enjoyed this! Thanks for it! For me, I liked A. I think that there is some little sparkle in upper mids that jumps out a bit. There is a push in the low end of B for sure, but I bet it would pile up too much for tracking and mixing on every channel. __________________ Just because you are necessary does not mean you are important.

19th February 2008, 11:19 PM	#49
Larrysings Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 161	A sounds good: nice mids, B is a little off comparatively. What's the answer? __________________ Larry Hammel Vocalist/Producer/CEO Deepwave Music Productions http://www.deepwavemusic.com Long Island City/NYC

19th February 2008, 11:36 PM	#50
qubi Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 208	Guitar: A.. B, as mentioned by a few, has something off, phasey about it Vocals: B.. A is clear and fine, but for some reason, especially on B, it just seams like there is more audio info there, like it it can take eq better and be sculpted more. A is more of a "here it is, take or leave it".. does that make any sense?? ok, just tried to eq in logic.. B is a lot fuller, esp. in the lows. just more harmonically rich.. but i can't quite get the strangeness of the guitar on B.. Like i said, "A" is good, like a mackie is "good", but once you push the eq, gets harsh.. Ok.. what's what???????? __________________ Qubi SoundTrax productions, KWT qubi1@hotmail.com

16th February 2008, 05:43 PM	#32
Ciozzi Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 273	Currently performing some tests on the mix buss. I'll post the results later...

16th February 2008, 06:08 PM	#33
dasoundjunkie Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 255	Ok ! By the way , I had the Toft ec-1 channel strip in here a couple of days ago and really liked the eq on it. The compressor was very good but took some getting used to since it was nowhere near as aggressive as my 1176 ( the only FET compressor I have). It was much smoother , really good for making something sit in a mix transparently without calling a lot of attention to itself. I didn't get a chance to try the mic-pre (only had it for an hour). I'm definitely getting 2 of the EQs! (you can get 4 channels for under grand!!!) great stuff for little money.

16th February 2008, 07:45 PM	#34
Ciozzi Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 273	Work in progress, today I've tested the mix buss on the console A. I recorded six samples at different volumes, from low peak levels all the way up until squashing the buss. In the end I took the console back to normal gain settings and used a Pendulum PL2 (brick wall peak limiter) to squash the buss by the same amount previously achived by gain staging. Console B is now waiting to be tested Guys, this is really fun! I think it's really worth it (at least for me) even if takes a shit load of time

18th February 2008, 01:36 AM	#37
Ciozzi Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 273	I've got a problem... How can I tame the outputs of the console without affecting the signal ? Pushing the buss the console makes the input stage of the PL2 clip Any ideas ?

19th February 2008, 03:43 PM	#45
cynics1207 Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: target studio Posts: 172	interesting! btw, joram= john oram?

20th February 2008, 08:44 AM	#51
Paul_G Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 271	Overall so far I preferred B, i think it is more flattering to digital signals. PG __________________ http://www.myspace.com/morcheeba "My advice for any one working in this business - lower your standards" - Randy Newman

20th February 2008, 10:00 AM	#52
Bushmaster5000 Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Posts: 11	My guess: A is the 8T Sounds how I remember; very clean, low noise, just lacks a bit of drive for my taste.

20th February 2008, 10:06 AM	#53
Ciozzi Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 273	It's interesting how one's warmth is another one's dull... Anyway I just want to spend some words about the guitar samples, where most of people's preferences split. As I already said the sound was very placement dependant and I could have made one of the consoles sound better than the other. That's the reason why I took three samples, one from very close where console A has a more balanced sound, from three feet where console B has more detail and the and low-end isn't gone and the last one with the eq engaged in order for you to have a better understanding of the "edge" of the two preamps, that is the biggest difference to me, at least in this case. For the answer you'll have to wait guys, the session I'm having right now is going to finish this evening, if I'm not too tired I'll take the last mix buss samples, post the results and then the answer. Right ?

20th February 2008, 02:53 PM	#54
jeronimo Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Salvador, BA - Brazil Posts: 2,288	looking foward to hear the mix buss test __________________ Think Diferente! www.verticeestudio.com http://www.myspace.com/jelmet

22nd February 2008, 01:16 AM	#55
jacko Gear addict Join Date: May 2004 Location: London, Islington Posts: 311	what's going on? I can't wait! :) __________________ www.milaszewski.com www.chimpstudio.com http://www.myspace.com/jacekmilaszewski

22nd February 2008, 08:12 PM	#56
Audio Hombre Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 823	this is taking so long i forgot about it

23rd February 2008, 05:00 AM	#57
dasoundjunkie Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 255	Yeah witch one is it ?

23rd February 2008, 05:22 AM	#58
zoink Gear nut Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montreal QC Posts: 115	i prefer B every step of the way. A doesn't get much love from me. now, which on is which. i own one of the two consoles...

23rd February 2008, 06:22 AM	#59
Energie Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 661	Kinda getting tired of checking this post to see if the answer of which is which has been posted yet, hasn't it been like 2 weeks?? HA, please, can you let us know which one is which. thank ya kindly.

23rd February 2008, 06:38 AM	#60
3rd&4thT Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 230	Relax. Once I had to wait two years to hear the punch line of a joke. It was worth it. 3rd&4thT

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