Looking for a cheap German.... Recommendations ?
Acid Mitch
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#1
15th August 2013
Old 15th August 2013
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Looking for a cheap German.... Recommendations ?

I'm looking for something cheap and German.
I can't think of any manufacturers other than Doepfer, Jomox, Waldorf and Vermona. Oh, and QuasiMIDI but I'm not keen on their stuff.

So far I'm looking at Blofeld ,Vermona Lancet, Doepfer Dark thingy, or possibly starting a small Doepfer Eurorack.

Are there any other German Eurorack(or other format) modular manufacturers ?
Any other German synths or effects I should be considering other than those listed ?

Only looking for hardware. No VST/VSTi (or other format) recommendations please.
Budget is £250 but I could stretch to a little over double that if I really have to. I know that's not much for modular gear but I 'd be expanding my Black Coffee semi -modular and not starting from scratch.
Second hand is fine.
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15th August 2013
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MFB stuff is pretty nice and relatively affordable. Not modular but definitely analog and definitely German.
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AHhh, forgot all about them. Thanks.
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15th August 2013
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250 pound for eurorack sounds a bit sparse...

Anyway, MFB does quite a bit of eurorack stuff, too, and all of it is rather cheap, some of it is available and some of their stuff is supposed to be quite good at what it does. The dual LFO looks quite fun and the tripple osc has some fans.

Something like the Kraftzwerg and especially Microzwerg get you quite far into modular territory for a quite reasonable price.

Not "your buget" cheap, but good value for money: Used Spectralis 1 tends to be cheap for what it does. Obviously it still did not get the new OS (Spectralis has a new version by now), still a really fun box.
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15th August 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 View Post
250 pound for eurorack sounds a bit sparse...
For sure, but looking at Ebay earlier I realised I could afford a second hand or DIY case plus a second hand Doepfer LFO and Envelope to expand my Black Coffee. I could probably buy another £250 worth in a month or so which would get me an oscillator and multiples or something.
I'd be up for DIY kits if instructions are in English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 View Post
Not "your buget" cheap, but good value for money: Used Spectralis 1 tends to be cheap for what it does. Obviously it still did not get the new OS (Spectralis has a new version by now), still a really fun box.
Thanks for the suggestions. Will check out the Spectralis and MFB stuff.
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15th August 2013
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Out of curiosity, why "any random cheap German thingie" as opposed to looking for a specific sound or features?
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Buffered multiples were super simple and cheap to do yourself, even on strip board:
electro-music.com :: View topic - Who can help to make a stripboard layout? Buffered Multiple

Youd still need a panel and a power ribbon though.
Otherwise, when Im done with my next order of ADSR and LFO things I want to build I can sell my MFB dual ADSR+LFO+VCA modules to you if you like.
Working perfectly, just want to build envelopes and lfos directly into the organ Ive been patching them into and use the case for buchla clones.
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15th August 2013
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I could let you have my Dark Energy V1 (CEM filter) for that if you say please.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSooner View Post
Out of curiosity, why "any random cheap German thingie" as opposed to looking for a specific sound or features?
The £250 I have is left over is from an inheritance from a German relative. I'd prefer to spend it on something that will last me a while and is German.

I have a few things I "need" for the studio.
A poly synth, fx (flange, filter ,distortion,ring mod, delay) and a mono synth.
At some point I aim to expand my black coffee semi modular to create a larger modular system.

Most things I know for sure I want aren't German(except software,lol) so I'm looking for suggestions.

Not sure if Blofelds will be repairable in 20 - 30 years but they score well in other areas.

Second hand Vermona mono Lancet and then picking up the expander later might be a winner.

Some of the MFB stuff looks ok but limited and not sure about quality.

Alternatively I can wait a little while and get something a bit more expensive.

Looking for acid/house/techno sounds but most synths do that, lol.
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Acid Mitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I could let you have my Dark Energy V1 (CEM filter) for that if you say please.
I'll sleep on it and let you know tomorrow, thanks .
Acid Mitch
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What's difference between v1 and v2 ?
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16th August 2013
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Doepfer gets a lot of grief for sounding worse, but I think it's mostly bias against it being affordable!

In my experience though, it's worth going for a "real" case (power supply) in euro. When the new doepfer low cost base comes out, it could be nice?

From Doepfer the voltage controlled 12 stage phaser and tapped delay are both nice. The a136 or a137 distortions can be very acid sounding. The polarizer makes nice ring mod sounds. Filters are very personal as to good or not. Throw in some envelope followers, VCA, sample and hold, and switch and you have a nice rhythmic effects processor. Cost is up there though....don't fall into the trap of "easing" into euro. Budget it out, realize it's a large investment and decide if it's worth it to you or if you'd rather invest money into one big thing.

Personally, I think it's with it, but 5k later...I wonder what a haken continuum would be like! But then I'd still be wanting a modular… 6 of one…
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I heard the a-105 (I think ) doepfer xpander multimode filter based on the xpander series and it was a beautiful. Was only 100 bucks or something. My Pittsburgh cell 48 is a month away and while not German is French ok mutable intruments have just released 4 eurorack modules and they're all incredible
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16th August 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
What's difference between v1 and v2 ?
v1 is based on a CEM chip and has a 24dB/oct. filter. The v2 has a 12dB/oct. multimode filter.

Fonitronik is also german...
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Waldorf Rocket maybe.

Plenty of Doepfer modules under that budget.

Jomox makes Euro versions of the MBase11 and MBrane11.

Schmidt is tad bit out of that price range...

So is a Schippmann Ebbe und Flut.
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16th August 2013
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Hohner ccordion. Made in Germany.

Sent from my LG-P769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Edgar View Post
v1 is based on a CEM chip and has a 24dB/oct. filter. The v2 has a 12dB/oct. multimode filter.

Fonitronik is also german...
I.e. mkI sounds nicer and mkII has a couple more sounds in it, but not as sweet. Plus, mkI is getting difficult to find. Oh, and I am german too, Mitch. Totally german situation.
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My Recordings/Credits

Behringer lol
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Im a german :P but Im not cheap ^^
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I would get a Vermona or Microzwerg II -slightly over budget I think but the latter can be integrated with modular, 2 filters, synch, seems quite nifty
I dont have either and dont have personal experience with either though
just tried the Vermona briefly at Schneiders
I think the Microzwerg can also serve as MIDI->CV
The Vermona seems more elegant (or retrokitsch, kind of on the edge)
but more limited and pricy for what it is
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Used Volkswagen.
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Acid Mitch
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16th August 2013
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Think I'm going to pass on the Dark Energy. Thanks for the offer Karlof.
Been listening to demos of it all day. It sounds good but I'd like an extra Osc .
When I realised you can chain them I knew I'd need 2 and then I thought "WHy not just wait a bit and get a proper modular instead of dicking around with lots of little semis ? ", so been looking into modulars..
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16th August 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
Think I'm going to pass on the Dark Energy. Thanks for the offer Karlof.
Been listening to demos of it all day. It sounds good but I'd like an extra Osc .
When I realised you can chain them I knew I'd need 2 and then I thought "WHy not just wait a bit and get a proper modular instead of dicking around with lots of little semis ? ", so been looking into modulars..
Cool. Turns out someone else is picking it up this weekend now. All good.
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16th August 2013
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16th August 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
I would get a Vermona or Microzwerg II -slightly over budget I think but the latter can be integrated with modular, 2 filters, synch, seems quite nifty
I dont have either and dont have personal experience with either though
just tried the Vermona briefly at Schneiders
I think the Microzwerg can also serve as MIDI->CV
The Vermona seems more elegant (or retrokitsch, kind of on the edge)
but more limited and pricy for what it is
Sadly the microzwerg does not do MIDI to CV. You can abuse one of the LFOs to get a trigger out, but without opening the case and modding the box I know of now way to output pitch CV.

I have a Microzwerg and I quite like it. Some stuff is not really perfect. Some parameter ranges feel strange, there is no direct pulsewith control (you can work around that if you feed a DC signal to the mod2 input, etc.

On the other hand you get two (nearly) independent multimode filters (only resonance is shared and they are controlled by one cutoff and a split control), two LFOs that can do one-shots and go quite a bit into the audio range (which is especially fun with the sample and hold waveform...), one is even voltage controllable, 2 Oscillators (one can do noise, the other (digital) ringmod) and quite decent patching possibilities.

Hint: If you have a chance to demo one just pick a cable and go directly from the osc1 output to the filter input. The mixer seems to be passive and looses quite a bit of gain. If you bypass it you drive the filter quite a bit more and you can get quite fat 1 osci leads. Also fool around with parallel filter configurations etc.
#26
17th August 2013
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Well, if I were in your shoes I'd check out a used Waldorf MicroQ.



I have the big one, it's awesome.

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17th August 2013
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Oh no!!..now I can't live without a walfdorf Q:( Those demo's are great.
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17th August 2013
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German music slams harder than anyone else.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 View Post
there is no direct pulsewith control
Connect a cable to Mod2 In, and leave the other end unconnected. You can then control the pulse width of oscillator 2 with the right half of the Mod2 knob.

D.
Acid Mitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Cool. Turns out someone else is picking it up this weekend now. All good.
I guess it's too late to change my mind then ? .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasticdollhole View Post
Yikes...
Yikes indeed. Looking at the specs.... erm ,I mean profiles, I don't think I can afford a girl and a synth.
Can just imagine the look on their faces when I have to tell them the first date will need to be sharing a bag of chips(that's fries to all you Americans out there) up the park because I've just spent the rest of my money on synths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasticdollhole View Post
Well, if I were in your shoes I'd check out a used Waldorf MicroQ.
I have the big one, it's awesome.
Listening to demos now, thanks for the suggestion


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Originally Posted by Plasticdollhole View Post
German music slams harder than anyone else.
You must have posted the wrong video.
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