Top Kick vs. Low Kick
secretmountain
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#1
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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Top Kick vs. Low Kick

For the life of me, I don't understand the concept of a top kick and low kick in house music. I'm confused on a number of issues. Say I sample a punchy house kick from a Vengeance pack and I need a kick with less bass for the intro. A 'top kick,' so to speak. Do I just low cut that kick for the intro or do I need a separate kick all together? And if so how much do I cut?

Examples:

0:00 Top Kick
0:30 Low Kick


0:00 Top Kick
0:30 Low Kick




PS, also if anyone knows where I can find similar kicks in the style Avicii, Otto Knows, Alesso, please let me know. Really like this 'Swedish House' style of music.
#2
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #2
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Yeah you can roll off the kick like up to 150 to 200hz with a high pass. So you get small amount of body but mainly the click of your kick sample.

Sent from my SPH-L710
#3
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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You can also try the sample libraries that sell main room or big room house samples. I don't even know what that style is called anymore. Surely it is not progressive house e.

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secretmountain
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#4
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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#5
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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You can do it any number of ways.
You can use a high pass filter and automation. You can have two separate kick samples.
#6
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #6
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On that exactly. It had a filter till :30. After that it is fully open.
secretmountain
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#7
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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I see... there is also the issue of tuning kicks to the key of the song. How do you go about doing that?
#8
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretmountain View Post
I see... there is also the issue of tuning kicks to the key of the song. How do you go about doing that?
Put it in a sampler so you can use it in a piano roll.
#9
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretmountain View Post


PS, also if anyone knows where I can find similar kicks in the style Avicii, Otto Knows, Alesso, please let me know. Really like this 'Swedish House' style of music.
Monster Kicks is on sale for the next couple of days at 50% off which will have some kicks in the style you mentioned.

Drum Samples - Monster Kicks volume 1 by Black Octopus Sound download

You can also grab some free ones on that page.
#10
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretmountain View Post

Anyone would think he'd just discovered dotted 8th notes....and how to count to 5.and.1..2..3..4..5.and.1..2..3..4..5.and......
#11
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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The way I do is different I create my low kick with a synthesizer so I can set it to the key I want. If you are using a sample then you can open up spectrum analyzer and see the peaking fundamental freq of your sample. After that its only matter of moving semitones to the root note of your track.
secretmountain
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#12
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavenmuzik View Post
The way I do is different I create my low kick with a synthesizer so I can set it to the key I want. If you are using a sample then you can open up spectrum analyzer and see the peaking fundamental freq of your sample. After that its only matter of moving semitones to the root note of your track.
Oh I see. So you layer a sine underneath for the low? What synth do you use if you don't mind my asking?
#13
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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No that is okay. It is called Bazzism.
secretmountain
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#14
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
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Cool thanks, will definitely check out, seems like a good plug.
#15
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #15
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pitch up a 909 kick drum sample on the keyboard.
#16
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #16
in both tracks you posted you can hear that the kick is just high passed during the first 16 bars

they didn't even bother shortening the sample to get rid of the low end tail so you wouldn't get that high passed kick sound

I wouldn't be surprised if those were simply Vengeance samples or similar
#17
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #17
here's a better showcase of the snap/punch of a kick during the intro and the sub low end coming in after



as you can hear, the "top" of the kick has the snap and punch of the kick, it's short and high passed enough so it doesn't interfere with the sub layer
secretmountain
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#18
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
in both tracks you posted you can hear that the kick is just high passed during the first 16 bars

they didn't even bother shortening the sample to get rid of the low end tail so you wouldn't get that high passed kick sound

I wouldn't be surprised if those were simply Vengeance samples or similar
I think you are right about them being Vengeance. But I'm not sure they were just highpassed. I saw an interview with Avicii that says he uses a completely different kick for each layer.
#19
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretmountain View Post
I think you are right about them being Vengeance. But I'm not sure they were just highpassed. I saw an interview with Avicii that says he uses a completely different kick for each layer.
the two examples you posted were hipassed kick during the intro, listen for the tail

no one in their right mind would leave that tail for the transient of their kick

when you're laying two kicks, or building your own kick with a kick sample and a synthesized sub low end, you usually have to high pass and shorten the sample you're using for the transients, so that tail you hear in both the examples posted would not be present if you were in fact only hearing the top of those kicks alone
#20
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #20
here's an example of what I'm talking about

first you hear a random Vengeance kick, then the same kick high passed (notice the tail), then the same kick high passed and shortened (notice there's no tail), then the same shortened kick but with a low passed 808 sample under it (courtesy of Wave Alchemy)

the main point of using this technique is to give you the freedom of tuning or synthesizing the low end of your kick without changing the transient, so making sure the sample used for the transient is short and has no tone is key
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 kick.mp3 (298.0 KB, 86 views)
#21
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #21
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Quite interesting. I always high pass my layered top kick but never shortened them. Can you explain the process abit more ohmicide?

Do you simply cut it as in audio editing and slice only the first click/punch of the sample?
#22
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #22
Gear nut
 

Nor did I shorten my drum-samples. After ohmicide's post I look at and think better about my kicks. Thanks.
#23
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavenmuzik View Post
Quite interesting. I always high pass my layered top kick but never shortened them. Can you explain the process abit more ohmicide?

Do you simply cut it as in audio editing and slice only the first click/punch of the sample?
Yep, I usually do this with Simpler in Live (much easier to swap out samples) or just put em on audio tracks and slice them

I would love something like Metrum, I've heard that's what a lot of the big guys are using, I'll definitely give it a try if I ever switch over to Cubase because they use the same type of dongle
#24
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #24
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Can't you use Metrum with ableton. You need elicenser dongle which all I know about it. I watched the tutorial for that and looks awesome indeed.
#25
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavenmuzik View Post
Can't you use Metrum with ableton. You need elicenser dongle which all I know about it. I watched the tutorial for that and looks awesome indeed.
yes you can, but it requires an eLicenser which I rather not deal with unless I switch to PC and Cubase 7, which I am planning on but not for a while
#26
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #26
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Ah. I use ableton on windows. What weirdo I am haha. I mean I love ableton but would like to check cubase later on as well.
#27
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #27
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Make sure you check out phase so the top and bottom are not cancelling each other out.
#28
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #28
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Top kick has many uses .. People use the top kick layered over the low kick so that they can hear the kick on ear buds or whatever speaker that doesn't have good low end response. It also helps u find the low kick which makes ur brain think the kick is bigger. If we all had big speakers with subs we probably wouldn't need the top kick as much
#29
30th June 2013
Old 30th June 2013
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstarforlife View Post
Top kick has many uses .. People use the top kick layered over the low kick so that they can hear the kick on ear buds or whatever speaker that doesn't have good low end response. It also helps u find the low kick which makes ur brain think the kick is bigger. If we all had big speakers with subs we probably wouldn't need the top kick as much
yeah we would, unless you want just a boomy low end with no transients on the top
secretmountain
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#30
1st July 2013
Old 1st July 2013
  #30
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Thanks for the help ohmicide. You seem to know a lot on this subject. I am wondering do you produce house music yourself? If so would you be down for a collab?
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