Analogue Drum Synthesis
EDGEK8D
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#1
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #1
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Analogue Drum Synthesis

Slutz:

I've been working hard making kicks lately. Using Ultrabeat to layer a sub-bass sine with two other pitched and tuned sine waves (one high for snap, one mid for body) have been successful.

Per Rick Snoman, creating kick drums is the most fundamentally important skill an electronic dance musician cam have. I have not yet crossed over to analogue anything. But I figure a drum synthesizer a really good place to start.

I'm not going to buy an old ass 808 or 909 on ebay. I want something modern and that is going to work. I'm a fan of appreciating the past, but not glued to it and always looking to the future.

Any recs?as this is an area I have little knowledge about?

What about this?
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musi.../mfb-522e.html

Also, will I need an analogue filter too? Then there is always tiny bits of bit crushing and distortion as well. Can I just use ITB filtering and effects? Or does it depend on the drum synth?

Thanks.
#2
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #2
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mainesthai's Avatar
 

The MFB is a 808 type drum synth and the kick has a very limited range. The demo video's show how it sounds.

I'm a huge fan of the Jomox MBase11. This drum synth is specialised in kick drums and goes from 808 to 909 and way beyond. Add a bit of distortion and it satisfies all my kick drum needs. But its difficult to get the best out of it because it has so many parameters that influence each other (this goes for all kick drum programming). Kick drum synthesis takes a long time to get to grips with and there are no short cuts. Put in the time and you will get back what you have put into it.

Of cause you can use all the itb and otb efx to make your kicks better, there are no rules here.
#3
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #3
The most exciting analog to me are...

MFB Tanzbär
Acidlabs Miami
Jomox stuff
DSI Tempest

As far as fx, not too many drum machines have built in..not too many need them. Get some outboard fx or use your computer.
#4
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
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was silents's Avatar
 

#5
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #5
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The problem is that the old ass machines are pretty much the only ones that sound great and work perfectly in mixes. IMHO, of course.
#6
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #6
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Kaoz's Avatar
 

The Vermona stuff gets mixed reviews here, but I don't mind the sound of the DRM1 MKiii especially.

Another vote for the Tempest and Dancing Bear - cant wait to see MFB's latest offering in shops down here.
#7
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #7
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Owned the DRM-1 MK1 a few years ago, most blant and boring analog drums I ever heard, apart from the Jomox Mbase I once had.
#8
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Slutz:

I've been working hard making kicks lately. Using Ultrabeat to layer a sub-bass sine with two other pitched and tuned sine waves (one high for snap, one mid for body) have been successful.

Per Rick Snoman, creating kick drums is the most fundamentally important skill an electronic dance musician cam have. I have not yet crossed over to analogue anything. But I figure a drum synthesizer a really good place to start.

I'm not going to buy an old ass 808 or 909 on ebay. I want something modern and that is going to work. I'm a fan of appreciating the past, but not glued to it and always looking to the future.

Any recs?as this is an area I have little knowledge about?

What about this?
MFB-522e

Also, will I need an analogue filter too? Then there is always tiny bits of bit crushing and distortion as well. Can I just use ITB filtering and effects? Or does it depend on the drum synth?

Thanks.
honestly, i would go for an MS20mini. I would make drums with that and sample them. also you have a very nice external processor and filter on it.

i have no direct experience with the MS20mini. I have however, produced hundreds of pro-quality drums with the original MS20. it's not the easiest synth to get drums from, but it does them very well once you get your head around it. my key tip for making drums on the ms20 would be:

1) use the rev EG1 out (at least on the original THIS is how you get snap -using delay as you would attack)
2) FM

lots of my MS20 drum sounds (among others) in this demo


demo by don solaris

BTW if you (or any GS member) want a free taster-pack of this library, just shoot me a PM
#9
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #9
Gear maniac
 

I own one of these -



Makes really cool genuine analog drum sounds and very tweakable, sort of a knock-off/less popular Simmons-type module from the 80's. Found it with three trigger pads (albeit one was a broken one) on ebay for 120 bucks. If you get one with any sort of pad to trigger the sounds you can tweak and sample to your heart's content. They were called "Pearl Drum-x" and "Pearl DRX-1" interchangeably.
Quote
2
#10
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #10
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Schwarzwald's Avatar
 

Cool find smcumber, I've never seen one of those.
#11
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #11
Gear maniac
 

Yeah it's pretty unique, very raw and heavy. Sounds great with delay.
#12
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #12
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Not analogue, but the Nord Modular G2 is fantastic for drum sounds.
Actually the main task I have given mine is to sequence drum sounds I program on it.
The possibilities are huge and it sounds great
This would definitely be my first choice.


The Pearl smcumber mentioned is a great synth indeed
I have one and it can sound really good indeed.
You can't go wrong with an old drum synth like that indeed
#13
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
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pinkerton's Avatar
 

There's also the jomox m brane or whatever it's called. I can't imagine there'd be anything better than a modular rig for making really crazy synthetic percussion.

I always thought kicks were one of the easiest drums to make. Simply envelope a sine wave. Adjust to taste. You've got kicks. And zaps. And very synthy toms.
msl
#14
28th June 2013
Old 28th June 2013
  #14
Wasn't a fan of the 522 had one for a while, and you need midget fingers to use the damn thing too. Airbase and Xbase09 have nice kicks, I own the later. Actually the old Novation DrumStations are very nice though not analog, totally convincing in the mix.


.
EDGEK8D
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#15
3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
  #15
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I downloaded WA Synth Drums. The snare bank alone is worth the price. I mean, processed, unprocessed, special processed, short snares, low/mid snares, noise snares, smacky snares, on and on!

I have never felt inspired by a drum pack before. Even just the random perc sounds have me cracking my knuckles.
#16
3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
I downloaded WA Synth Drums. The snare bank alone is worth the price. I mean, processed, unprocessed, special processed, short snares, low/mid snares, noise snares, smacky snares, on and on!

I have never felt inspired by a drum pack before. Even just the random perc sounds have me cracking my knuckles.
glad to hear it


now that you have the full library, you may like to take note of the ms20 sounds for the reasons I gave in my earlier post - it makes a damn fine drum synth.

(my favourite snare is an MS20 one BTW )
EDGEK8D
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#17
3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
glad to hear it


now that you have the full library, you may like to take note of the ms20 sounds for the reasons I gave in my earlier post - it makes a damn fine drum synth.

(my favourite snare is an MS20 one BTW )
Yes sir, I do remember. I have been loading up all 25 voices of Ultrabeat with different snares, hats, kicks, etc.... from all of the Synth Drum categories and sub categories. This way drop a few midi notes on C1, highlight them, loop, and just drag up and down shopping drum samples to see how they fit with the other sounds.

Agreed, the MS20 makes a real NIN kinda PSSSSHHHHH!

From what I understand, the MS20mini is essentially the same as the OG MS20 in terms of analogue circuitry, oscillators, and all, right? No ability to save patches, but for perc synthesis, get it right, and record.

What kind of other gear am I looking at in order to properly record? As I said, this would be my first analogue anything. A good preamp, compressor, or channel strip?
#18
3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
  #18
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Yes sir, I do remember. I have been loading up all 25 voices of Ultrabeat with different snares, hats, kicks, etc.... from all of the Synth Drum categories and sub categories. This way drop a few midi notes on C1, highlight them, loop, and just drag up and down shopping drum samples to see how they fit with the other sounds.

Agreed, the MS20 makes a real NIN kinda PSSSSHHHHH!

From what I understand, the MS20mini is essentially the same as the OG MS20 in terms of analogue circuitry, oscillators, and all, right? No ability to save patches, but for perc synthesis, get it right, and record.

What kind of other gear am I looking at in order to properly record? As I said, this would be my first analogue anything. A good preamp, compressor, or channel strip?
you don't need any of that to record properly. you just need a good AD converter. and you're correct: for perc synthesis, get it right, and record. you may like to record a few of the same hits to use as round-robins.


from the demo's i've heard the MS20mini is the same basic machine. it does sound a little different, but no worse that the original IMO. I would imagine that the same drum synthesis techniques on the old one would work on the new. if i didnt have the OG i'd get the mini, no question.
#19
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Slutz:

I've been working hard making kicks lately. Using Ultrabeat to layer a sub-bass sine with two other pitched and tuned sine waves (one high for snap, one mid for body) have been successful.

Per Rick Snoman, creating kick drums is the most fundamentally important skill an electronic dance musician cam have. I have not yet crossed over to analogue anything. But I figure a drum synthesizer a really good place to start.

I'm not going to buy an old ass 808 or 909 on ebay. I want something modern and that is going to work. I'm a fan of appreciating the past, but not glued to it and always looking to the future.

Any recs?as this is an area I have little knowledge about?

What about this?
MFB-522e

Also, will I need an analogue filter too? Then there is always tiny bits of bit crushing and distortion as well. Can I just use ITB filtering and effects? Or does it depend on the drum synth?

Thanks.
Tempest is your answer if you want the best drum design tool today. Also the punchier. That´s the future classic.
#20
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #20
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Demokid's Avatar
 

If you own a synthesizer then try to make your own drum sounds. You get your own personal drum sounds and it is really fun.



Best regards
Demokid
#21
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber View Post
If you get one with any sort of pad to trigger the sounds you can tweak and sample to your heart's content.
these can be sequenced easily by sending snares/rimshots into the trigger inputs.
#22
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
Cool find smcumber, I've never seen one of those.
drx example

the kick in this snippit is pearl drx-1
#23
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #23
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Start a eurorack modular and get some low pass gates.
#24
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demokid View Post
If you own a synthesizer then try to make your own drum sounds. You get your own personal drum sounds and it is really fun.



Best regards
Demokid
I really love the Korg MS-20's snare drum sound! Would getting the VX-351 outputs for the Minimoog Voyager open up the possibilities for better drum synthesis? Right now the only good drum sounds I've been able to do on it is bass drums. I can also get some glassy sounding hi hats, but it's not something I would use much in my music.
#25
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necron 99 View Post
I really love the Korg MS-20's snare drum sound! Would getting the VX-351 outputs for the Minimoog Voyager open up the possibilities for better drum synthesis? Right now the only good drum sounds I've been able to do on it is bass drums. I can also get some glassy sounding hi hats, but it's not something I would use much in my music.
the only thing you'll have real trouble doing on an MS20 is claps. it can do pretty much everything else. in other words it has very open possibilities as it is.. not even thinking here about using other drums as audio into its ESP.. which is a whole other vista of possibilities


all below are generated exclusively with the ms20 - none using any external audio into the ESP
Attached Files
Quote
1
#26
9th July 2013
Old 9th July 2013
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golden beers's Avatar
(from over 400 ms20 drums in the synth drums library)
#27
10th July 2013
Old 10th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
(from over 400 ms20 drums in the synth drums library)
Hell yeah! Is there any information on how each sound was made (patch settings, oscillators, etc)? I would love to try making these sounds on my Voyager once I get the CV outputs for it.
#28
10th July 2013
Old 10th July 2013
  #28
Hi.

Just across the same dilemma, so... I´m searching for the kick.
I just want to show you part of that dilemma, if you allow me.
This example has a little peak arround 100hz+. How bad is that for you?.
I feel much comfort if nothing goes more than 70 hz during the body of the kick. Just want to hear some ideas.

Tks.
Attached Files
File Type: wav EQ_55.wav (935.1 KB, 12 views)
#29
10th July 2013
Old 10th July 2013
  #29
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golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necron 99 View Post
Hell yeah! Is there any information on how each sound was made (patch settings, oscillators, etc)? I would love to try making these sounds on my Voyager once I get the CV outputs for it.
there's no exact patches documented. I have a few general patch ideas I wrote down,edit attached in next post these are MS20 specific and would be of little use to Voyager users.

the basic principle for drum/perc is a fast transient. that's obvious.

and FM, especially with noise.

i'll upload my basic ms20 patch ideas in a sec...
#30
10th July 2013
Old 10th July 2013
  #30
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golden beers's Avatar
you'll need to take some time to get to grips with what these patches actually do, and what i mean in the notes.

here's some MS20 starting ideas for you, they're not full patches, ie, no info about osc set-up - just the important stuff
Attached Thumbnails
Analogue Drum Synthesis-ms20-basic-snap-set-up.jpg   Analogue Drum Synthesis-ms20-smooth-fm-noise.jpg   Analogue Drum Synthesis-ms20_gritty-fm.jpg  
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