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#31
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
  #31
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The music in the 1st youtube link is awesome! Antaro was a real mixmaster
Used to love early 90's Goa music. Had several recordings from parties in Poona/Goa. Unfortunately lost all of them and have no clue what was what...
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#32
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duvalle View Post
from 1997 starting: don't forget the virus a ..... ;-)
How could I forget, and I have on right here on the desk in front of me too
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#33
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
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For those who would like to spend 45 minutes in the studio with Simon Posford, Benji, and a bunch of other Twisted artists discussing gear and workflow...



Also open it up in another window (clicking the Youtube icon in the bottom right), and you can see interviews with Raja Ram etc. But I suspect this is the part that will be the greatest interest to gear sluts Notice a few things they have in common; computer for tracking, big desk for mixing, modest nearfield monitors that they're familiar with, decent quality A/D converters, and a microphone and a bunch of neat sound toys.

EDIT: Killer quote from Ott in the middle: 'There's my 303...I sold the first one I had in 1986 for forty quid to by some hash, I couldn't really think of anything useful to do with it...about three months later I heard my first acid house record. Oops.'

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#34
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
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Originally Posted by umptanum View Post
I don't think it's any coincidence that the good psychedelic trance died with the government crackdown of a major LSD supplier in 2000...

Missile Silo LSD Bust

"According to court testimony, they would produce a kilogram of LSD approximately every five weeks. The U.S. government contends that following their arrest there was a 90% drop in the availability of LSD worldwide."
Well remembered, and quite true IMHO.
#35
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
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While digging for this:

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Originally Posted by Shell View Post
On the subject of academia... about 2 years ago I stumbled across an academic paper somebody wrote on Hallucinogen - LSD. It documented a lot of the music theory and such, like a key change in the song and stuff like that. I have been trying to find it ever since *snip*
...I came across a few resources that the aspiring Goa trance producer might find of interest. I remember the paper mentioned by Shell and am also unable to find that particular piece, however, these might be of some value.

Meaning, Motion and Gesture In Psychedelic Trance Music
http://www.udi.pladott.org/music/Mot...0Music2005.pdf

Electronic Music and Psychedelics: An Interview with Simon Posford of Shpongle
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v22n1/v22n1_16-18.pdf
Simon Posford | Mavericks of the Mind (unabridged version)

Psychedelic Trance: ritual, belief and transcendental experience in modern raves
http://www.dur.ac.uk/anthropology.jo...itropoulos.pdf

Vision and Viscosity in Goa's Psychedelic Trance Scene
http://www.acme-journal.org/vol4/ASa.pdf

Music(ology) Needs A Context -- Reinterpreting Goa Trance
http://www.snarl.org/youth/sebbook.pdf

Of note is this bit from the Posford interview:

---
David: I love it! This leads right into my next question, which is: How have psychedelics in?uenced your experience with music, and how has it affected your creativity and your performance?

Simon: I would say massively, and on a profound level. In fact, so fundamentally that I didn't even really like the type of music that I now create before I took psychedelics.
---

Is experience with psychedelic drugs a prerequisite for making Goa trance? No. However, I believe that experience with a psychedelic mind state is. The psychedelic mind state is not restricted to those who take (or have taken) drugs; there are a number of ways to obtain a mind state analogous to that achieved by psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin (meditation, sensory deprivation, and fasting come to mind). If you've opened that door in other ways, that's fantastic and I applaud you! Because, holy crap, are the other methods difficult and much less guaranteed!
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#36
18th June 2013
Old 18th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtu View Post
The psychedelic mind state is not restricted to those who take (or have taken) drugs; there are a number of ways to obtain a mind state analogous to that achieved by psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin (meditation, sensory deprivation, and fasting come to mind).
Doing it that way only leads to crappy New Age music.

Just kidding. Great info linked in that post!
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#37
19th June 2013
Old 19th June 2013
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Going back to the OP's list of notable synths used, another important synth used back in the day was Roland's JD-800. In the early 90s, this was Roland's flagship and it was used all over Etnica/Pleiadians/Crop Circle's work. The opening padded chords of Etnica's Trip Tonite was the "Killer Pad" JD-800 factory preset (*gasp*).

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#38
19th June 2013
Old 19th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post

Also open it up in another window (clicking the Youtube icon in the bottom right), and you can see interviews with Raja Ram etc. But I suspect this is the part that will be the greatest interest to gear sluts Notice a few things they have in common; computer for tracking, big desk for mixing, modest nearfield monitors that they're familiar with, decent quality A/D converters, and a microphone and a bunch of neat sound toys.


nice youtube vid! I do notice some similarities, I think one thing to note is the obscene amount of high end effects. And also...surprisingly, UNslutty setups. just a few key pieces tracked out through tons of high end effects and a proper mixing area.

WAtching posford's method of working really enlightened me on a few things, and also reduced his complexity a little, but seriously that bassline sounded amazing! those effects really astounding!

I realy really really want an eventide orville now....haha =) and a nice big mixing board! and and and....
#39
19th June 2013
Old 19th June 2013
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Quote:
Here is a gear list from Hallucinogens old site (the aquagena site)

The brain unit:

Mac G3 266Mhz
PC Pentium 800Mhz
Korg 12/12 soundcard
Gina soundcard
Logic Audio Platinum
Mackie 32*8 bus mixing desk
Mackie HR824 monitor


The keyboards unit:

Kurzweil K2000
Korg MS20
Korg MS50
Roland SH101
Roland Juno106
ARP 2600
Oscar
Prophet 5


The digital unit:

Akai S3200
Akai CD3000
Akai DR16
Fostex D-5


The effects unit:

TC M2000
Zoom
Behringer intelligate
Alesis Quadraverb
Drawmer Gate
Bel Flanger
Ensoniq DP/4
Eventide DSP4000
Eventide Harmonizer
AMS dm 2-80
TC Electronic
Smalltone Phaser



Here is MFG old gear list:

Virus

Novation bass station

Freebass

Morpheus

Akai s2000

Nord Lead rack

Juno 106

Juno 60

Ensoniq ASR10

Soundcraft mixer

DBX compressor

Digitech processor




Astral Projections old setup:

Pentium PC, 550 Mhz, 256Mb RAM
30Gb hard drive, Creamware pulsar soundcard


Access Virus B
Amek 9098 EQ
ARP Odyssey
Behringer tube compressor
Bellari RP583 compressor
Clavia Nord Lead
Clavia Nord Modular
dbx 163 compressor (x2)
dbx 166a compressor
Digitech effects
EMS AKS synth (x2)
E-mu e6400 Ultra sampler
E-mu EMAX II sampler
E-mu Morpheus sound module
E-mu Proteus sound module
Focusrite Red compressor
Genelec 1032 AP monitors
Kenton Pro 4
Kenton Pro 2000
Korg DRV3000 effects
Korg MS10 synth
Korg MS20 synth
Korg PolySix analogue synth
Korg SDD3300 effects
Lexicon MPX1 effects
Lexicon PCM70 effects
Lexicon PCM80 effects
Lexicon Super Prime Time delay
MAM resonator
MAM vocoder
Manley Massive Passive EQ
Manley Avri Mu compressor
Moog Prodigy
Oberheim Matrix 6R sound module
Oberheim Xpander
Roland CMU-810 CompuSynth
Roland DEP-5
Roland JD-800 Classic synth
Roland JX-3P synth
Roland Juno 60 synth
Roland Juno 106 synth
Roland MC-202 synth
Roland MKS-50 synth (x2)
Roland MKS-70 synth
Roland MKS-80 synth
Roland SH-101 synth
Roland TB-303 Bassline
Roland TR-606 drum machine
Roland TR-909 drum machine
Roland U-220 synth
Sundtracs Solitaire 40-channel mixer
Studio Electronics SE1 synth


Infected Mushroom old studio (The Gathering)

Keyboards:

Clavia - Nord Lead 1

Solton - MS 50

Novation - BassStation

Ensoniq - VFX

Roland - Juno 106

Roland - Jupiter 6



Effects:

Eventide - Orville

Line 6 - POD Pro

Digitech - Studio Quad

Digitech - TSR24s

Behringer - Intelligate



Other Analog/Rack:

FAT - FreeBass

Spectral Audio - ProTone

Doepfer - System A100

Moog (MoogerFooger) Phazer 12 Stage

Moog (MoogerFooger) Low Pass Fiter

Korg MS-2000R



Mixer:

Mackie 32x8

Neve- 2 channels for Eq. Compressing'PreAmp Samplers:

Akai - S3000XL +
Filters And Effect Boards



Sound Card:

x2- RME 96/52 HammerFull

Roland - MU64,USB 4IN x 4Out.



Converters:

RME ADI 8pro 8in,8out

x2 MusicNet 8out

(Total 24 Outputs, 8 inputs)

x2 DI-Beringer (Line -> Mic)

Working with 2 PCs 800mhz & 1500mhz


Software:

Cubase 5.1r1

SoundForge

WavLab

Reactor

VstInst'


All Possible Plugins.

Etnica (and also Filteria):

I want to tell that etnica, never had a real TB 303. (Just to clarify, even though it's not on this list, Filteria DOES have a 303, though apparently Etnica does/did not)

their setup was more or less the same that Filteria has:

Access Virus B
Clavia Nord Modular
Clavia Nord Rack 2
DSI Evolver
E-mu Morpheus
Ensoniq ESQ-M
Korg MS-20
Korg MS-2000R
Korg Prophecy
Novation BasStation
Oberheim Xpander
Roland JD-800
Roland JP-8000
Roland MKS-50
Roland SH-101
Roland V-Synth XT
Syntechno Teebee
Waldorf Q
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#40
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Astral Projection are definitely the sluttiest

BTW, if you ever buy a K2000, make sure you get the original floppy disk library that came with it, either from the seller or by digging around on eBay. You will be surprised at how many presets you recognize from your record collection! I wish I hadn't sold mine (ca$h crunch) and am hoping to bring some Kurzweil sounds back into my life soon.

3001, quite right about the high-quality outboard FX in the video, which I meant to mention but forgot. Luckily there is a middle ground between cheap crap FX and the high prices of the Eventide. I mentioned the Ensoniq DP/4 above, and it's also worth checking out the DP/Pro although it only has 2 channels. The same FX are found in the ASR-X which is available very cheaply these days and which also has lovely filters in it. Later-model Kurzweils with KDFX and the sampling option are also pretty powerful beasts, and of course the Access Virus is fun to process sound with, it has a nice delay.
#41
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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I've heard music that doesnt exist when on acid.. goa closely resembles it

This thread inspires me to try and make some goa

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#42
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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I think Kurzweil was more relevent back in the day before all this computer hooplah, I dont think it's that great now. They're really cool but their interface is so backwords compared to what there is out today. you'll notice a few of them in the video talked about leaving akai since computer is so easy now for sampling.

I remember seeing a video years ago of when posford swore by his kurzweils...

Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post
Astral Projection are definitely the sluttiest

BTW, if you ever buy a K2000, make sure you get the original floppy disk library that came with it, either from the seller or by digging around on eBay. You will be surprised at how many presets you recognize from your record collection! I wish I hadn't sold mine (ca$h crunch) and am hoping to bring some Kurzweil sounds back into my life soon.

3001, quite right about the high-quality outboard FX in the video, which I meant to mention but forgot. Luckily there is a middle ground between cheap crap FX and the high prices of the Eventide. I mentioned the Ensoniq DP/4 above, and it's also worth checking out the DP/Pro although it only has 2 channels. The same FX are found in the ASR-X which is available very cheaply these days and which also has lovely filters in it. Later-model Kurzweils with KDFX and the sampling option are also pretty powerful beasts, and of course the Access Virus is fun to process sound with, it has a nice delay.
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#43
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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They're certainly not especially easy to edit on, and patching on them involves an unhealthy degree of encoder-twirling...not to mention the willingness to digest a ~500 page manual on the fundamentals of signal processing.

But rather than using off-the-shelf DSPs or so, they use their own ASICs (application-specific integrated circuits) while makes them quite unlike anything else. Even things that could be designed in other contexts are often only to be found on the Kurzweil...eg good luck finding a plugin that lets you FM one sample with another. If you're into Reaktor or so you can certainly duplicate anything the Kurzweils can do, but at a considerable time cost. Because they were sold to the workstation market and promoted heavily on the degree of realism and fidelity in emulating real instruments, classic timbres etc., they are heavily over-engineered, in a good way. They sound fantastic, can't rate them highly enough.
#44
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Best thread start eva!
#45
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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I always thought vuuv2 was a quite strange party. just saw myself and some good old friends in the vid..
great times.
had to corner around the whole place in the night to verify the moon is just the moon and not ( directly ) belonging to the deko....
Made some live acts to this time and the most fun was to give the spaced out crowd something to bite on !

nice thread !
personally i hear/ make every type of nice techno this days .
in my car i just recovered the first dragonfly-sampler, i still like the sound aesthetics much more than in most modern tracks.
Psy trance is nice to dance to but hearing the same song for more than 10/15 years now is more than boring.
instead of a nice journey you get a soulless drivey bassline and sweeps and white noiz till the ears are bleeding. maybe even the same sampled fx from
"psy trance samples vol 14" over and over again...
sure there are people out there still on a mission making great tunes, but not a majority.
sure ergot alkaloids of the sclerotia of the fungus Claviceps purpure had helped a lot to understand what is going on.( not only in the music.. )

peace

axel
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#46
20th June 2013
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I tend to put Goa touches, but aim for a more "modern" production.
Kit list is this:
Moog Slim Phatty
Moog Minitaur
x0xb0x
Doepfer A-100 modular
Nord Lead 1
Access Virus C
Moog MF-108
Moog MF-103
Moog MF-102
Big Muff Pi Bass
ProCo RAT2

http://soundcloud.com/disco-hooligans/martian-arts-jp-rezon8

And also like going for the more old school sound
http://soundcloud.com/disco-hooligans/martian-arts-grey-area-demo

Goa was brilliant this season. Played in some blasting parties in Anjuna, Vagator, Little Vagator and Hill Top.
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#47
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelerator View Post
I always thought vuuv2 was a quite strange party. just saw myself and some good old friends in the vid.
haha ... then you might remember vuuv 3 in zarrentin too?
first goa party in the eastern part of germany ...
crazy "schnitzeljagt" to even find the place ...
this guy has some more clips: Kanal von swabheeru - YouTube
#48
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Amazing! Great threat, thanks a lot anigbrowl

This reminds me about the work on my debut album when I was in love with GOA leads synths. (still am)
The Roland JP8000 has a great arp for GOA leads, I use it motsly now to control other synth, for example to arp the little phatty with JP8000 arp.


Check out this old tune of mine, the bpm is slower than usual goa but has the JP8000 arp
for some classical goa lead scales.

https://soundcloud.com/skyage/skyage-stars

( I dont connect much with the Psytrance today, but Im still stuck in the old times, like. Twisted stuff.... )
#49
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post
BTW, if you ever buy a K2000, make sure you get the original floppy disk library that came with it, either from the seller or by digging around on eBay. You will be surprised at how many presets you recognize from your record collection! I wish I hadn't sold mine (ca$h crunch) and am hoping to bring some Kurzweil sounds back into my life soon.
Any particular ones you recommend? I have about 30 floppy discs with classic "analog" sounds on them but I haven't dug through all of them yet. Can't say they all sound "analog" but they're generally not bad presets either.

Here's two stock K2000 patches used by Hallucinogen off the top of my head:

Mixed Choir: Used for the "vocals" in Spiritual Antiseptic. (Optical Lens told me about this one, thanks d00d!)

a no way CS: Used for the squeaky vocal sounds in Magik.

If anybody knows more I'd love to hear them!
#50
20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValdiKaldi View Post
The Roland JP8000 has a great arp for GOA leads, I use it motsly now to control other synth, for example to arp the little phatty with JP8000 arp.
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#51
20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelerator View Post
Psy trance is nice to dance to but hearing the same song for more than 10/15 years now is more than boring. instead of a nice journey you get a soulless drivey bassline and sweeps and white noiz till the ears are bleeding. maybe even the same sampled fx from "psy trance samples vol 14" over and over again...
That's a good point. I was very into monotonic driving basslines for a long while a la X-Dream, and still like them, but lately I've been drawn back to more melodic ones like this:



Shell, I can't recommend any particular presets offhand as it's ~5 years since I sold my K2000 and I don't remember particular patch names...though I hope to pick one up again soon. There's some other K2000 stock patches on Twisted, I'll try to give it a listen and ID couple of tracks. I don't kno why, but even though I've owned 3 nord modulars, Micro, key and a G2 key, there's a 'something' about the Kurzweil sound that just really floats my boat - the filters etc. just seem very musical.

BTW thanks for that video, it's great to see the keyboard technique. I've been limiting myself to the step sequencer too long for the last couple of months, time to move some of that crap off my desk so I can plug a keyboard back in!!
#52
20th June 2013
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i can't stand the monotone bassline. It drives me nuts. It's really teh basis for a track out too, how many times have you been able to only hear just bassline and the kick drum at a party and not the other sounds when it was too loud? lol.
#53
20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post
Shell, I can't recommend any particular presets offhand as it's ~5 years since I sold my K2000 and I don't remember particular patch names...though I hope to pick one up again soon. There's some other K2000 stock patches on Twisted, I'll try to give it a listen and ID couple of tracks. I don't kno why, but even though I've owned 3 nord modulars, Micro, key and a G2 key, there's a 'something' about the Kurzweil sound that just really floats my boat - the filters etc. just seem very musical.

BTW thanks for that video, it's great to see the keyboard technique. I've been limiting myself to the step sequencer too long for the last couple of months, time to move some of that crap off my desk so I can plug a keyboard back in!!
No worries, just figured I'd ask. If you can ID any from Twisted, or really any goa stuff, I'd love to hear about it. I'll have to give a scroll through the stock presets and listen more closely again because I am no doubt missing a good number of them.

The K2000 is a beast of a synth, and it's a lot to take in at once but it's definitely worthy of the price it carries right now. Pretty underpriced if you ask me. The synthesis engine is amazing and quite intuitive, I am just NOT a fan of the screen and the menu diving. So unfortunately for me, it tends to get pushed to preset duties lately. Although there are some nice goa-esque patches which are pretty simple to program in there too.

And yeah, no problem about the Filteria vid. It's cool to watch him experimenting. I've only played a JP8000 once for a few minutes in Guitar Center and I have to say I was quite unimpressed, but he makes it look like a really solid synth. The supersaw sounds great anyway. Maybe somebody can convince me otherwise because it seems like another capable and nicely priced synth. The sound and the knobs just turned me off when I played it, but then again, it was only a few minutes.
#54
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3001 View Post
i can't stand the monotone bassline. It drives me nuts. It's really teh basis for a track out too, how many times have you been able to only hear just bassline and the kick drum at a party and not the other sounds when it was too loud? lol.
haha, true.

a bit ot. last time I was checking out Mwnn. His album Moment of truth has some really nice changing basslines
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20th June 2013
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Perhaps one reason the monotone bass has been so popular is that it's so easy - obvious I know, but it's a fact that you can move a crowd with it, and just switching rhythms between an oom-pah, a gallop, and drive (x-X-, -xxx, xxxx) sounds quite dramatic on a big system, to the point that there are many tracks that put all the more creative rhythm into the acid lines and percussion.

Writing a catchy bassline is hard. My best technique so far - as I feel like I'm learning all over again after years of making one-note basslines - is to develop a good two bar phrase that doesn't use too many different notes (so you can feel the melody rather than needing to remember the tune, so to speak). But I don't use it too much in the two-bar form, maybe only on one or two sections. On other sections I'll just loop 1 bar pulled from somewhere within the loop - from the beginning on section, from the middle of the 2 bars on another, and maybe some other sections where I just loop a half or quarter bar to make it pushy. Other things I try include breaking a bassline into shorter phrases and playing them back in different sequences and combinations. But it's tricky to find the right kind of phrases that balance each other well.

When I'm feeling stuck I go listen to disco basslines and try copying those but in a darker scale...with mixed results

Anyhooo...I did call it a technique thread so I thought I'd better do a post without mentioning any specific gear
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#56
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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And now for a completely different sound source...don't judge it by appearances

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#57
20th June 2013
Old 20th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shell View Post

Exactly!!! nice one

this sounds brilliant!
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20th June 2013
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^^^whens the beat gonna kick in??
#59
21st June 2013
Old 21st June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anigbrowl View Post
Writing a catchy bassline is hard.
Yup, it's the hardest thing to write and usually the most unappreciated aspect of any tune... and yet I find it the most important (which is another reason modern psytrance drives me crazy... their lazy approach to bass).

Bass in psychedelic trance over the years has morphed and changed. It originally used to be what I call "the wugga", which I thought was pretty genre-defining. The wugga was that gated, lfo-modulated bass that gave that awesome trance flow. It wasn't based on notes... it was low rhythmic energy. (And again, a sound anyone on psychedelics would immediately relate with).

This track is a great example of tasty wugga-ness...



The history of psychedelic trance is how this approach to bass has changed from that to today's predictable single note bass gallop.

I originally enjoyed the note-driven bass approach, especially when done by artists like CPU with his SH-101 and squeaky Virus lead combo. But that was ten years ago, and it hasn't changed since. In fact, people now define and template psytrance by the simple bass note approach and yet it wasn't the original sound at all.
#60
21st June 2013
Old 21st June 2013
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Not the original sound id imagine but an example of fairly recent Played in goa stuff with the 1 maybe 2 note bass-

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