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Wanted: Ondes martenot style midi-keyboard
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Dormusic
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#1
11th May 2013
Old 11th May 2013
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Wanted: Ondes martenot style midi-keyboard

Dear Gearslutz public,
I am looking for a midi keyboard with similar capabilities as the Ondes Martenot keyboard: the ability to transmit pitchbend via side-to-side swivel, meaning true fingered vibrato.

I aware of the haaken continuum, but this is NOT what I need. All I need is a standard 6-octave keyboard that has the capability to move several milimeters from side to side (possibly mounted on springs, as noted in this thread) that will permit me to truely perform vibrato with other virtual instruments.
I just want the swivel action, don't need the rest of the ondes' tiroir.

Thanks!
Dormusic
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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I need it to transmit MIDI. Swivel= pitchbend.
#3
12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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I don't think this requires a modular system, but I could be wrong. It's worth looking into. It's much cheaper than $3200.
#4
12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Save yourself a few quid and get a eowave ribbon




This is the raw waveform though it works with midi too.

The pressure determines velocity/volume

I've since put markers on mine to get better intonation
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormusic View Post
Dear Gearslutz public,
I am looking for a midi keyboard with similar capabilities as the Ondes Martenot keyboard: the ability to transmit pitchbend via side-to-side swivel, meaning true fingered vibrato.

I aware of the haaken continuum, but this is NOT what I need. All I need is a standard 6-octave keyboard that has the capability to move several milimeters from side to side (possibly mounted on springs, as noted in this thread) that will permit me to truely perform vibrato with other virtual instruments.
I just want the swivel action, don't need the rest of the ondes' tiroir.

Thanks!
What you ask for does not exist (yet) other than a few examples made by enthusiasts. Some Yamaha Electones did have that feature though. But AFAIK it was only made on the old analog organs and not on the mid 80's digital ones with midi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
Save yourself a few quid and get a eowave ribbon
It looks cool and sounds cool. Just wish it had a note on/off feature so it could be played in Ondes style.
#6
12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljudterapi View Post
What you ask for does not exist (yet) other than a few examples made by enthusiasts. Some Yamaha Electones did have that feature though. But AFAIK it was only made on the old analog organs and not on the mid 80's digital ones with midi.


It looks cool and sounds cool. Just wish it had a note on/off feature so it could be played in Ondes style.
the pressure you apply is note on/off. like using the the ondes amplitude button.
#7
12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Eowave Persephone sounds like it fits the bill
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
the pressure you apply is note on/off. like using the the ondes amplitude button.
If anything, a channel pressure or aftertouch COMBINED with note on/off would classify as touche d'intensite (playing pressure).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljudterapi View Post
What you ask for does not exist (yet) other than a few examples made by enthusiasts.
Then I've come to the right place, have I? Are there any engineers in the crowd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekrafty View Post
Eowave Persephone sounds like it fits the bill
No, I AM looking for a keyboard. Just want it to have the swivel vibrato.
#9
12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwvm View Post
Save yourself a few quid and get a eowave ribbon




This is the raw waveform though it works with midi too.

The pressure determines velocity/volume

I've since put markers on mine to get better intonation
That sounds incredible & looks like loads of fun - thanks for sharing
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormusic View Post

Then I've come to the right place, have I? Are there any engineers in the crowd?
No. Try here instead electro-music.com :: Index - electro-music.com

They'll probably be of no more use to you than anyone here, but they will say that to you in a more technically expert manner.
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FubarSnafu View Post
No. Try here instead electro-music.com :: Index - electro-music.com

They'll probably be of no more use to you than anyone here, but they will say that to you in a more technically expert manner.
Thanks!
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12th May 2013
Old 12th May 2013
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Yamaha made a few Electone models with "FSV" a/k/a "Horizontal Touch", a left-to-right pitchbend for vibrato. The EL 900 at least had MIDI In/Out/Thru, along with AWS, FM, and VA tone generation. Prolly pretty pricey, if you can even find one.

Not the kind of conventional keyboard you're looking for, but the Madrona Labs Soundplane and the Eigenharp Alpha (and other models with fewer keys) offer finger vibrato and expression per note. The Roli Labs SeaBoard has similar control with a more conventional key layout, though not with conventional keys. (References to all the latter here -- Roger Linn's Linnstrument is of this general ilk, if he ever brings it to market.)
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12th May 2013
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21st June 2013
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The ondes Martenot swivel keyboard is actually very challenging to learn how to control. The first time I sat down at an ondes Martenot, I felt like I had to completely relearn my keyboard technique. It is incredibly expressive, and at least as much a part of the instrument as the more famous ribbon. But is not something you can just sit down and pick up.

Having said that, I would love an ondes-style midi controller. (Note that the French Connection doesn't output midi, nor, to the best of my knowledge, does it have the swiveling keyboard.) A proper ondes Martenot-type midi controller would also have the real ondes-sized keys (smaller than standard, but larger than mini keys) which make it easier to make wide leaps with a single hand as well as the ribbon and button.
I have a feeling demand might be rather limited, and it would be fairly expensive.
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#15
21st June 2013
Old 21st June 2013
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Haken Continuum can do it polyphonically. I've tried it at Schneider's. The fingerboard is padded and you can press anywhere, it feels unlike any other instrument. The build is high quality and it costs accordingly, of course.

HakenAudio | Overview | Features

Edit: oops, didn't notice OP had mentioned it already. A "vibrating" keyboard sounds very boutique and expensive to implement -- the poor man's solution would be just to map aftertouch to vibrato amount...
messiaen
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21st June 2013
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22nd June 2013
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#18
22nd June 2013
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The therevox looks rad, but it doesn't look to have the swiveling keyboard.
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27th June 2013
Old 27th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imissthewar View Post
No Midi, but it's a thrill to play
I just wanted to say that we're getting ready to release a new Therevox model that will have MIDI over USB and some other features.
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#20
27th June 2013
Old 27th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therevoxhq View Post
I just wanted to say that we're getting ready to release a new Therevox model that will have MIDI over USB and some other features.
Any chance of a retrofit? MIDI would be sweet
#21
2nd July 2013
Old 2nd July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imissthewar View Post
Any chance of a retrofit? MIDI would be sweet
Of course, anything is possible. Contact me directly at info at therevox.com and we'll go from there.
messiaen
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2nd July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therevoxhq View Post
I just wanted to say that we're getting ready to release a new Therevox model that will have MIDI over USB and some other features.
Have you any idea when , and will it be able to control hardware synths?

Will the keyboard be larger?

Cheers

Messiaen
#23
5th July 2013
Old 5th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen View Post
Have you any idea when , and will it be able to control hardware synths?

Will the keyboard be larger?

Cheers

Messiaen
We're expecting to have it available on therevox.com by October. We're keeping the same form factor for now, so it will be the same size as the ET-4 with 3 octaves of "keys".

Since it's MIDI over USB, it can be used to control soft synths and I suppose any hardware synths that have a USB jack and operate in host mode (But I'm not sure if any exist yet). To control hardware synths though, nothing beats the CV outputs.

The final prototype has been making the rounds with some local musicians, so we can get some feedback regarding how MIDI should be handled. Right now it can operate in 4 different modes and send the ring position as either a 4 or 2 octave pitch bend.

Another thing we're adding on this model is an input so you can run the audio from the soft synth/laptop back into the Therevox so it can go through the filter and spring reverb before going out to an amp or recording gear.

Mike
#24
30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therevoxhq View Post
We're expecting to have it available on therevox.com by October. We're keeping the same form factor for now, so it will be the same size as the ET-4 with 3 octaves of "keys".

Since it's MIDI over USB, it can be used to control soft synths and I suppose any hardware synths that have a USB jack and operate in host mode (But I'm not sure if any exist yet). To control hardware synths though, nothing beats the CV outputs.

The final prototype has been making the rounds with some local musicians, so we can get some feedback regarding how MIDI should be handled. Right now it can operate in 4 different modes and send the ring position as either a 4 or 2 octave pitch bend.

Another thing we're adding on this model is an input so you can run the audio from the soft synth/laptop back into the Therevox so it can go through the filter and spring reverb before going out to an amp or recording gear.

Mike
exciting news, really excited about this, I can see an ET-4 on a christmas list looming in the distance lol
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Dormusic
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30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matyas View Post
The therevox looks rad, but it doesn't look to have the swiveling keyboard.
Exactly my point. I am not looking for a ribbon/ring controller, I am looking for a simple midi keyboard with swivel-action vibrato.
Imagine this with samplemodeling instruments for example....
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30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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I might be missing something, but why not get a keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch? Would this not offer the same outcome?
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30th July 2013
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No. Actually, polyphonic aftertouch would be a nice extra feature that would control the DYNAMIC of playing (cresc./dim. ...).
But the real issue is the performance of VIBRATO (controls the PITCH/frequency), just like you would perform it on stringed instruments: not via pressure, but via altering the length of the string: side to side motion.
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30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormusic View Post
But the real issue is the performance of VIBRATO (controls the PITCH/frequency), just like you would perform it on stringed instruments: not via pressure, but via altering the length of the string: side to side motion.
perhaps it comes from playing guitar, but as one can create vibrato by modulating the pressure behind the fret, I've found that polyphonic aftertouch can work well to this end. if we're talking about general channel aftertouch then yes, one is more limited to control of dynamics.

however, I do agree that an Ondes-like controller would be outstanding as pressure (hopefully polyphonic) could then be combined with the side-to-side motion for incredible tactile expressiveness.

for something a bit different but along this idea, here is something I recently came across that may be of interest to you- The Seaboard ::: "Evolved from the piano keyboard, the Seaboard is a new musical instrument which bridges the gap between acoustic and digital music by putting the control of pitch, volume and timbre right at your fingertips." http://www.weareroli.com
#29
30th July 2013
Old 30th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormusic View Post
No. Actually, polyphonic aftertouch would be a nice extra feature that would control the DYNAMIC of playing (cresc./dim. ...).
But the real issue is the performance of VIBRATO (controls the PITCH/frequency), just like you would perform it on stringed instruments: not via pressure, but via altering the length of the string: side to side motion.
Have you seen this?
TouchKeys
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30th August 2013
Old 30th August 2013
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Yes. Exactly what I was looking for.
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