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Virus TI2 desktop or Prophet 8 PE module (which one first given my current palette)
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2toxic
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26th March 2013
Old 26th March 2013
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Virus TI2 desktop or Prophet 8 PE module (which one first given my current palette)

This is not a versus thread. This is which to get first (as i will be owning both at some point) given my current palette and genre.

Genre: hiphop / urban electronic music.

Current Palette:
Roland SH-201
fxpansion DCAM synths (strobe is the shiznit!)
NI Massive (I can modulate this thing to get any sound I imagine)
MPC renaissance (with the dopest samples)
Rob Papen Subboom Bass
East West (Orchestra Gold and Piano Platinum)
Stlyus RMX
NI FM8 (not made it my bitch yet but she will submit)
(All sequenced and modulated with DAW)

Ok, so its all digital

I want to move into analogue and hardware. Yes I know the TI2 is a VA but what a freakin VA! I will be doing as much tweaking and modulating to make my own sounds just as much as I will be browsing and buying presets cos at the end of the day I sell beats, and I make some money doing it so intstant gratification is an asset when working in time constraints.

Now I feel like the Prophet is a better first buy with its DCOs in terms of variety for my current pallete. No FX, not 16 part multitimbral but it will do the sounds it does very well! I hope i can program the radio friendly sounds while keeping my own character with this thing

Considering that my next purchase after one of the two synths mentioned above will be a sub phatty, (then Ill purchase the other of the two above after the sub phatty), what should I get first?

(Please dont offer alternatives just help me figure out what should be of first order)

Should I make do with massive and my other soft synths while i have the prophet first? or get the ultimate VA and enjoy the DSP and FX now while waiting on the prophet (which i can pass thru the virus FX)?

HELP A BROTHER SPEND HIS CASH RIGHT - Thanks in advance guys!

PS: oh remember that one of the two options will compliment an analogue monophoinc before I purchase the other!
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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What sort of hip hop? Trap, boom bap, funk, NY-style, west coast funk? Just curious.

Virus ti2 is a workhorse. Maybe it's my limited synth programming, but I can't get it to excel at ONE thing, but I can make it do a lot of different things extremely well. You really have to sit down with it and make it your bitch.

The preset count is ridiculous on the Ti2. I never bothered going thru them all. The efx on the Virus ti2 are pretty damn good as well, and works as a nice audio interface if you have none, but considering what you already have, I'd suggest the Prophet 08.

The slutty answer: Get both + Sub Phatty and put everything except FM8 and Massive away because you are going to be VERY busy, lol.

Some of the things most people fail to mention when talking about the Virus TI2:

Yes it is multi-timbral, but if you have complex patches, they will voice steal from each other. It does have its limits, albeit very hard to reach.

Yes it has knobs, but you still do quite a bit menu diving if trying to use it solely as hardware.

If you do use it as an audio interface and all audio outputs via USB, you cannot use its audio input to process anything.

The headphone output is surprisingly robust (that thing packs a punch).

Audio via USB will be lower in volume than its dedicated DAC output, but nothing a gain boost can't fix. They sound the exact same once volumes are matched.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Prophet 08, for sure.
You have good sounding soft synths, unless you are going to use the Virus' deep modulation matrix, you're simply going to be spending lots of cash on another digital synth. At least the P08 does not sound like another digital synth.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
Prophet 08, for sure.
You have good sounding soft synths, unless you are going to use the Virus' deep modulation matrix, you're simply going to be spending lots of cash on another digital synth. At least the P08 does not sound like another digital synth.
This is the correct answer. I'm not saying the Virus has been bested by software but they're getting very very close. I own a ton of software synths and none of them come close to my Prophet 08.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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That's a tough one. I have both of those synths, and also several of the vsts you mentioned. The Prophet is probably my least favorite analog synth at the moment. IMO, the Virus is an amazing synth. However, since you don't have any other analog gear, I would go with the Prophet, but keep in mind, it tends to have a limited palette in my opinion. The Virus can sound like a lot of other stuff.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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All the previous answers are correct.

On the one hand, you don't have an analogue synth, so the Prophet would add that to your arsenal. On the other, the Virus is amazing, and would be a valuable addition to any setup.

You could consider getting a Virus TI Snow and a Mopho X4. This would give you exactly the same sounds as both of your options, while sacrificing some polyphony, for approx the price of a Virus. You'd also get a keyboard, which you wouldn't with your two options.

D.
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Listen to my music at http://soundcloud.com/daniel-b-1 and http://alonetone.com/danielb

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y equipment: Access Virus TI2 KB, Emu Emulator II, Maschine Mikro, Yamaha TX802, Korg Radias, A small but evolving Eurorack modular, Arturia Minibrute, Moog CP251, MFB Microzwerg, Ensoniq EPS, Oberheim Matrix 1000, NI Komplete 9 Ultimate, Korg Legacy M1 and Wavestation, Alchemy, Reaktor, DCAM Synth Squad, Arturia V-Collection, Ableton Live 9 and Logic Pro X.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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I'd vote of P08 as well.

The Virus does excel at one thing and that's the acid/flanged/distorted lead lines you hear in a lot of trance. It does everything else well too, apart from 'that' analogue sound.
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27th March 2013
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Some people are starting to get tired of reading this, but I had a Polar TI that I sold and got a mint, used Virus C and with the excess cash I bought a new Slim Phatty and x0xb0x.
The super digital Virus sound (-minus the supersaw which I despise, although the grain/formant oscillators where cool) and modulation matrix + real analog that pisses all over the super digital Virus sound when it comes to juicy Moog and 303 acid sounds.

The TI range is not worth its cash and the FX sound average, at best, imo always.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I'm not saying the Virus has been bested by software but they're getting very very close.
As much as I love the Virus and I use it because I know my way around it and love its modulation matrix, a combination of soft synths, will yield better results.
Trillian, Omnisphere, Zebra, ACE, Sylenth, ES2, Lush 101, DIVA, Reaktor...etc...Combine them and use them for their strengths and the Virus is nothing more than them (unless you want to modulate interpolation values on a WT oscillator), other than just a different sounding synth.

Having said that, the combined price of these soft synths is much higher than the 450€ I payed for my Virus C and I like programming synths, without looking at screens. So I still use my Virus C, in every tune I make.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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TI2's are overrated and overpriced. Prophet 08 all the way.
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27th March 2013
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Odd that the Virus seems to get very little love on this forum :(
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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What was said about the Virus that shows no love? Its a great synth, its just the TI range is too expensive for what it is, for some people. Especially now that the older models have dropped so much in price.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielb View Post
Odd that the Virus seems to get very little love on this forum :(
Agreed. I have one, as well as some other nice analog synths, but I have to say that the Virus is one of my desert island synths. Personally, I think it blows away any vst I have heard in terms of versatility and quality of sound. I wonder if most of the people who don't like it have never owned it, or maybe just breezed through some presets, because the Virus TI is really a beast. You can definitely make complete tracks with it, crossing many different genres. That can't be said of many vsts IMO. And this is coming from a guy who is primarily into modular synths at the moment.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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The thing with the Virus is its sound. Its a love/hate thing.
99% of the times I use it for its wavetables and the FM patches I get when using wavetables and the brilliant amount of modulation sources and parameters I have available. Its arpeggiator is also the best arp I have ever used.

The filter are "meh"...and the conventional oscillators are "meh" as well. And that is not because I love analog synths, the Nord Lead 1 is a digital synth with brilliant oscillators and especially filters.

The best thing about the Virus is the amount of programming that is available and the wavetables (also available as LFO waveforms). The raw sound is nice, but nothing amazing.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic View Post
You can definitely make complete tracks with it, crossing many different genres.
I have made complete tracks with mine...
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
What was said about the Virus that shows no love? Its a great synth, its just the TI range is too expensive for what it is, for some people. Especially now that the older models have dropped so much in price.
Maybe I should have said "very little love for the Virus TI"

It's true it's not cheap, but it's an amazing beast that has completely changed the way I work since I bought it, and made several of my other synths redundant.

D.
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27th March 2013
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I went for that as well, to make a complete Virus TI tune I mean... but I ended up replacing more than half the channels with other synths. The reason being that the track had this uber plastic flavor.
Having said that, the Virus tone is great for contrasting it with other analog and digital synths, in a mix. Hence why even though I sold the Polar TI, I was looking for a cheap Virus C to pop up and snatched it when it did.

The TI is expensive because the older models are so cheap. Its definitely not 3-4 times better than a Virus A/B/C/Classic.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Hmmm ... I'm counting that Prophet 08 is currently taking the lead and I am happy you guys are making this decision based on my current palette which is exactly what I want you to do.

If I followed your train of thoughts and went for the Prophet 8 to start, is there a good chance that I'd be pissed that everytime it ended up in a beat/song of mine, it will become so disctinct to listeners in a way that makes it sound tedious after about 10 tracks? because I have not heard anyone use the word "versatile" as an adjective for this instrument (p08).

On the other hand, I hear "versatile" and "workhorse" a lot for the virus ti2.
(The multitimbrality of a versatile synth is a big plus to workflow when i can just click another channel on the synth, program/layer it and route it to an Aux in my DAW)

Seeing as a lot of my work is within the bounds of commercial constraints, wouldn't the Virus Ti2 be a good balance between productivity and experimenting? In other words ppl that have virus ti2 seem to use it a lot! It has somewhat worked its way as a standard for which synths on the modern (yes Urban) radio station should sound like

Can I get bread and butter from the P08?
(cos Ill make the workflow sacrifice if I can get "go to" sounds as well as "avantgarde" on the P08, while waiting another 6 months for the virus ti2)

To address some questions raised:

1 - @dionysianrchy2 and @Nev - Hiphop is electronic music but Id say common themes in my beats are 808s(synthsized), synth leads and pads, and samples (I sample everything). And by Urban I mean genres that originated and proliferated in Urban environments. Here's my link:
SoundClick artist: 2toxic - hip hop beats, R&B beats, hip hop producer, Hooks, Instrumentals, 2toxic, www.soundclick.com/2toxic,
You can place it where you feel . I am black. My sound oscillates btw NY and Atlanta/Houston hiphop sound. Def not BoomBap nor Westcoast, but ive been delving into dubstep themes also.

2 - Yes I will be using the modulation matrix a lot! if I had the Virus. If I had the p08, it too will get modded the shit out of. I like to automate (write) synth parametrs using Midi CC's (out) from my DAW to make them come alive over sequence.

3 - @Nev - I already have a bitching audio interface (RME Fireface 800)

PS: Remember this is a which one first and not a VS. Thanks in advance again guys A civilized bunch here, the lot of you.

Last edited by 2toxic; 27th March 2013 at 01:12 PM.. Reason: spell correction
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
I went for that as well, but I ended up replacing more than half the channels with other synths. The reason being that the track had this uber plastic flavor.
Having said that, the Virus tone is great for contrasting it with other analog and digital synths, in a mix. Hence why even though I sold the Polar TI, I was looking for a cheap Virus C to pop up and snatched it when it did.
I've been making whole tracks with mine between it's new and I can't keep my hands off it.

I won't be doing this for much longer because, as you say, you don't want _everything_ to sound like a Virus. I didn't buy it to replace all my other synths, but it is so versatile and capable that it will remain the foundation of my setup - it can even be a very decent controller for other synths.

D.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
I went for that as well, to make a complete Virus TI tune I mean... but I ended up replacing more than half the channels with other synths. The reason being that the track had this uber plastic flavor.
Having said that, the Virus tone is great for contrasting it with other analog and digital synths, in a mix.
GREAT INSIGHT NECTARIO! THANK YOU!!!

Please continue the lively discussion guys ... My mind is swinging like pendulum
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27th March 2013
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27th March 2013
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I can't give any suggestions as to urban radio hip-hop. My limited knowledge of the subject involves making some phat/smart beats/bass and having at least one killer MC.

Other than that, the P08 gets deep as well + there is that killer sequencer and the sound, which (from demos, I've never actually owned one) is very appealing to my ears.

dionysianrchy2 mentioned an SE1X. Its like the holy grail of bass amongst hip-hop producers. Even I that I not involved with the genre, know that...I am guessing there is a reason for that.

Do you need the TI part of the Virus? Cause if you don't, you'll blow an awful lot of cash on the TI when you can easily get the job done with an older model and have spare cash for an SE1X, or something along those lines.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic View Post
I did this all with the Virus, except percussion.

https://soundcloud.com/daxiel/baby
This is exactly what I mean by saying a tune that sounds uber plastic. This plastic character of the Virus is just too much of a good/bad thing to have in a one track.

But like I said, that is my opinion only. Others dig that sound, it just happens that I don't.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic View Post
I did this all with the Virus, except percussion.

https://soundcloud.com/daxiel/baby
I liked it, even through my bad headphones at work I'll listen to it properly at home.

These two are all Virus, except the percussion, and the bass in the second one. They're not exactly Hiphop though, so I don't know how much they'll help the OP make up his mind.

Trance:
http://soundcloud.com/daniel-b-1/hypno


Don't know what this is:
http://soundcloud.com/daniel-b-1/green-skies


This one is all Mopho, including the percussion, since the OP is thinking of the Prophet:

Limitations by DanielB
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27th March 2013
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Interesting and insightful thread, subscribing as I'm about to buy my first hardware / analog synth (think I'll be waiting for the sub phatty though....)

G
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
This is exactly what I mean by saying a tune that sounds uber plastic. This plastic character of the Virus is just too much of a good/bad thing to have in a one track.

But like I said, that is my opinion only. Others dig that sound, it just happens that I don't.
I agree with that plastic character of the Virus. I was always looking for a word to describe it, Nectarios nailed it with "plastic".

For the style the OP is into, the Virus might come in handy more than the Prophet 8, but I still would recommend the Prophet first. Do not rely on the demo presets and some of the youtube videos out there.

Test it out for yourself, list your favorite patches at home, take some notes, go to a Sam Ash or any local shop, and try to recreate your favorite patches on the Prophet. That will give you a clear indicator of its strengths compared to what you already have. Trust me on this. It is the best way to come to a decision.

I often find myself replacing the Virus with Sylenth or Reaktor by the time
I go to mixdown. I run Reaktor on a separate laptop.

If I had to do it again, I would have bought the Snow and a Tetra with the extra cash instead of a Virus Ti2. Even a Virus C can be had for a bargain nowadays. Or if you have the space a Mopho x4 + Snow.
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27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
This is exactly what I mean by saying a tune that sounds uber plastic. This plastic character of the Virus is just too much of a good/bad thing to have in a one track.

But like I said, that is my opinion only. Others dig that sound, it just happens that I don't.
Of course you're not going to like the virus. Everything you do is acid. The virus doesn't do a good 303.
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27th March 2013
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I do more than just 303 acid lines, but yeah, 303 acid is another thing the Virus does not do well.

I don't like the Virus for 303 acid, resonant filter sweeps, bread and butter leads, analog like sounds.

I love the Virus for some mad wavetable modulation patches, I love the Virus for FM (especially wavetable), I love the Virus for its modulation matrix, its almost like having a modular synth, packed in a nice little box, in terms of flexibility.
I love the Virus for its arpeggiator (as in the patterns available).

I just don't fall for the "wow this thing is the best synth ever" attitude, because I have used an awful lot of analog and digital synths, in my lifetime.
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27th March 2013
Old 27th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios View Post
This is exactly what I mean by saying a tune that sounds uber plastic. This plastic character of the Virus is just too much of a good/bad thing to have in a one track.

But like I said, that is my opinion only. Others dig that sound, it just happens that I don't.
While it is not my style of music, hypnotic's attached track eloquently shows a good amount of spectrum of the Virus TI2.

What I realize is that there's nothing there that the prophet 08 cant get to with FX included. (same with sounds from danielb's attached songs)

Only worry is if i can get to it with the p08 as seamlessy as the Virus does. Especially considering that my FX will come from plugin inserts.

Is the Virus FX no better than stock fx from the modern DAW or say FX from guitar rig? cos i can patch the p08 to DAW FX in this manner

@Nev, yes I am planning on testing both out with a GC pro rep. Although he just texted me saying the Virus ti2 is on its way from Atlanta (I live in Htown). I would have liked to test the p08 first but yes I will be testing both.

Definitely leaning P08 for now..... keep em coming guys... thank you
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27th March 2013
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Trance:
http://soundcloud.com/daniel-b-1/hypno

I like the sounds you got here. If I had to choose between this and a Juno 60, I would def choose this. Very few vsts can do this, and if they can, it's probably samples or really high on the cpu.

No doubt, people will conclude that just because this song is trance, then the virus must only be good at trance, but that's not true at all.
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