MemoryMoog owners question - arpeggiator clock
Old 23rd March 2013
  #1
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MemoryMoog owners question - arpeggiator clock

Hey fellow MM owners.

My MM+ arpeggiator does not reliably clock off external 5v triggers as expected.

Before I go hunting for a fix, can others get their MM and MM+ arpeggiator to slave of a drum machines 5v trigger? (TR-707 , 808 , 909 etc)
Old 23rd March 2013
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Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
 

IIRC, when I bought mine 2-3 years ago I tried to sync the Memorymoog's arpeggio with all the drum machines and sync boxes that I have (Linn, Roland, Oberheim, E-mu etc) and never had success - it was jittery like you're experiencing
Old 23rd March 2013
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Don't drive yourself crazy, I can't get mine to sync either.

BUT, maybe someone has and can help us all here with a post!

Optimism

-andrews
Old 23rd March 2013
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Ok. That's a start.

I'll look a the schems and see if I can find a solution.

Pity.. The Arp is very good.

Cheers
Old 23rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureman84 View Post
Ok. That's a start.

I'll look a the schems and see if I can find a solution.

Pity.. The Arp is very good.

Cheers
The arpeggiator is good indeed, especially the all-note auto trigger variation one - not easy to find on other synths, and classic '80s.
Old 23rd March 2013
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I was just clocking my MM+ from my Korg KR-55B and it was working great...
Old 23rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougt View Post
I was just clocking my MM+ from my Korg KR-55B and it was working great...
Thanks for the update, Doug.. OK, let me take out the Memory and drum machines and see if I can get it... I'd love to be able to sync the MM somehow.
Old 23rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougt View Post
I was just clocking my MM+ from my Korg KR-55B and it was working great...
Is that S-trig?

If it works on other MM's , it'd be interesting to see why.. Maybe voltage or even pulse duration.
Old 23rd March 2013
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Old 23rd March 2013
  #10
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The symbol means +5V when idle and switch to ground when triggered.

WT
Old 24th March 2013
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Old 24th March 2013
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How do we convert regular 5v to Switched-trigger?
Old 24th March 2013
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post
How do we convert regular 5v to Switched-trigger?
It's a simple circuit consisting of a transistor , diode and resistor.

Google V-trig to s-trig

Or buy a touchprone adapter off eBay..
Old 24th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureman84 View Post
It's a simple circuit consisting of a transistor , diode and resistor.

Google V-trig to s-trig

Or buy a touchprone adapter off eBay..
Thanks, surely enough, it was already here at GS: V-trig to S-trig

It looks easy enough and I have those parts, I'll try to build it myself and report back
Old 24th March 2013
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OK, the first attempt at building a V-trig to S-trig was a half-success (or half-failure if you prefer )

Now at least I get the Memorymoog to respond with perfect timing BUT the notes are still at semi-random and not correspond to the gates I give to it via the drum machine trigger (I tried with the LinnDrum).

Can someone who's good at electronics please tell what I'm doing wrong? I cut the DIN ends from an old MIDI cable and utilized one of the four copper channels inside (the red one) for signal and the shield strand for ground.

This is the trigger side, male 1/4" which I connect to the Linn:



and this is the receiving side, female 1/4" (which I connect to a standard audio cable, and then insert that one in the MM):



and these are the direct links to the retrosynth drawings:



Old 24th March 2013
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You are using the wrong circuit !

The solution you use is supposed to be used if you have a V trig source and a S-Trig destination.

You want the other way round if you are using a KR55. KR55 out is S-Trig and MM Arp in is +V trig.

The Linndrum however is +V trig out and should not need any conversion.

WT
Old 24th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveterm View Post
You are using the wrong circuit !

The solution you use is supposed to be used if you have a V trig source and a S-Trig destination.

You want the other way round if you are using a KR55. KR55 out is S-Trig and MM Arp in is +V trig.

The Linndrum however is +V trig out and should not need any conversion.

WT
Thank you, Waveterm

but now wait, I'm confused. Aren't we talking, in this thread, about the fact that the MM arp is S-Trig?

For what I understand, most machines (Roland, Oberheim, Linn, E-mu etc) use +V trig

but Korg and Moog are the only ones who use S-Trig

hence why Doug is able to trigger the KR-55B to the Memorymoog easily with a standard cable: they are both S-Trig.

However, if I'm going from a Linn (or a Roland, or Oberheim, or E-mu etc.) to the Memorymoog, shouldn't I indeed use that circuit?
Old 25th March 2013
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Hmm....

is the MM S-Trig ? I checked the manual and I couldn´t find any reference for it. On one hand it makes sense that it should be S-Trig since most moogs use S-Trig for the Gate function.

However, on the other hand, very few Drum Machines from that era used S-Trig for clocks or triggering so it wouldn´t have been very smart of moog to implement a standard that no-one else used ( Except Korg ).

Reading the Garfield MAsterbeat user manual, it reveals that the Arpeggio Clock In is V+ Trig.

I don´t have a MM so I cannot check.

WT
Old 25th March 2013
  #19
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Also,

checking the service manual for the MM it looks like it is V+.

WT
Old 25th March 2013
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Well, there are at least three of us here (Futureman, Halo, and me) who have tried from non-Korg drum machines to trigger the Memorymoog's arpeggiator, without success.

Then along comes Doug, who is able to trigger the Memorymoog's arp from his KORG KR-55B without any problem.

This makes it sounds suspiciously like the MM might be using S-Trig, no?

In addition, with this goofy cable I've made I am now able to at least trigger the MM on time, so it makes me think I'm on to something, but I must still be doing something wrong because the notes are still random.

If the MM and Garfield manuals say the MM is +V though, this is a mystery
Old 25th March 2013
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Yeah, a mystery it is....

The MM manual doesn´t say anything about it being V+ or S-trig. Only the Garfield manual lists it as V+ for the ext clock in ( both Sequencer and Arpeggio )

WT
Old 25th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post

....In addition, with this goofy cable I've made I am now able to at least trigger the MM on time, so it makes me think I'm on to something, but I must still be doing something wrong because the notes are still random.

If the MM and Garfield manuals say the MM is +V though, this is a mystery
Can you please elaborate?

Say - triggers are given to it on 8th's and the MM plays notes exactly on those 8ths but the note order is random?
Is it just a case that the arp is set to random?
Old 25th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureman84 View Post
Can you please elaborate?

Say - triggers are given to it on 8th's and the MM plays notes exactly on those 8ths but the note order is random?
Is it just a case that the arp is set to random?
Sorry: I didn't mean "random" referred to the note pitches (the MM doesn't have random arp settings), but to the fact if they play or not.

For example, if I set the LinnDrum at gate trigger send of 16 (or 8 like you said, it doesn't matter) the MemoryMoog arpeggiator triggers - say - the first 12 notes perfectly, then skips number 13, and then plays 14 through 16. At the next cycle, it might play from 1-to-10, skip 11, and then play 12-13, then skip 14 and 15 and play 16... etc.

Very frustrating as it's *almost* there but it's still not usable this way. I double-checked the circuit and it seems right to me, but as I was trying to tweak it I broke one of the transistor's legs and now I have to order the part to test the circuit further.

If anyone has any success, please share...
Old 25th March 2013
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Cool.

I played around, and it's definitely an S-Trig.

I never tried a TR-707 with it before, but it worked well. Never skipped a trigger. But it was clearly lagging (ie, taking the downward stroke of the trigger)

I put in the V-Trig to S-trig converter and it was tight as F. On the money and never missing a trigger.

Success.

For what it's worth, I didn't have such luck with LinnDrum... I'll look at the trigger one day with a scope and see why..

I could build some sort of 'trigger conditioner' that'd standardize the trigger and make it work with all drum machines.. We'll see.
Old 25th March 2013
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureman84 View Post
Cool.

I played around, and it's definitely an S-Trig.

I never tried a TR-707 with it before, but it worked well. Never skipped a trigger. But it was clearly lagging (ie, taking the downward stroke of the trigger)

I put in the V-Trig to S-trig converter and it was tight as F. On the money and never missing a trigger.

Success.

For what it's worth, I didn't have such luck with LinnDrum... I'll look at the trigger one day with a scope and see why..

I could build some sort of 'trigger conditioner' that'd standardize the trigger and make it work with all drum machines.. We'll see.
Great! I'll try from the TR-707 too. How did you build your v-trig to s-trig converter, is it similar to mine? Can you please share a photo, and did you add the diode? I've seen other converters on the net and the only have the resistor and the transistor. As long as I can get it locked to something, then I can use a master sync for the rest of the instruments.
Old 26th March 2013
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I've built them in the past.. But I must admit I cheated this time and bought a touchprone one.. My time wasn't worth the $20 it cost to buy!

I'll open it up and see what design it has.
Old 26th March 2013
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureman84 View Post
I've built them in the past.. But I must admit I cheated this time and bought a touchprone one.. My time wasn't worth the $20 it cost to buy!

I'll open it up and see what design it has.
Many thanks
Old 15th January 2014
  #28
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