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Would Korg MS-20 Mini and SEM Pro compliment each other?
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Daniel_Che
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27th January 2013
Old 27th January 2013
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Would Korg MS-20 Mini and SEM Pro compliment each other?

Just wondering, would Korg MS-20 Mini and SEM Pro compliment each other?
Seems to me they two have many common sweet spots, especially in the 12db high pass filter domain...

i would like to hook up ms20 and my sem pro via patch points, but the ms20 uses different voltage/oct, right?
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27th January 2013
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Very different filters. They would compliment each other quite nice I'd say.
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27th January 2013
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i see new ms20 has 1voltage/oct, it's really tempting...however i don't have 24db filter domain covered in my studio....maybe i should get that first and then a new ms20

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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Very different filters. They would compliment each other quite nice I'd say.
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27th January 2013
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For bread-and-butter mono purposes, original MS20 isn't the best choice, imo. I'd take SH2 or SH09 for that any time. MS is great for sonic weirdness and variety, but basses and arp isn't it's forte. Depends what you want. Choices around it's price range are many. Good times.
Also, I'd like to demo new MS20 mini to see what they came up.

600? If I were you, I'd take SH2/09 or Minitaur first, and than MS20. But that's me.
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27th January 2013
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yes, i had the very same in mind

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Originally Posted by relis View Post
For bread-and-butter mono purposes, original MS20 isn't the best choice, imo. I'd take SH2 or SH09 for that any time. MS is great for sonic weirdness and variety, but basses and arp isn't it's forte. Depends what you want. Choices around it's price range are many. Good times.
Also, I'd like to demo new MS20 mini to see what they came up.

600? If I were you, I'd take SH2/09 or Minitaur first, and than MS20. But that's me.
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27th January 2013
Old 27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
Just wondering, would Korg MS-20 Mini and SEM Pro complement each other?
yes.

If the keyword is "complement", yes.
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27th January 2013
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Yes, they would compliment one another quite well!

MS-20: "Oh, that's a stunning white dress you're wearing SEM darling."

SEM: "My you look handsome and rugged in that dark suit!"
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
i would like to hook up ms20 and my sem pro via patch points
I intend to do this with my own patch panel SEM. I believe the MS-20 mini will integrate perfectly into my current semi-modular rig consisting of a SEM, 2x Dark Energy and a Dark Time. I'm totally stoked!
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Yes, they would compliment one another quite well!

MS-20: "Oh, that's a stunning white dress you're wearing SEM darling."

SEM: "My you look handsome and rugged in that dark suit!"
Yes that sounds very romantic.
Until one of them brings out the patch cords.
Then things start getting dirty.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
i see new ms20 has 1voltage/oct
There's only one input for combined VCO1 and VCO2 modulation, that can be adjusted to 1V/Oct. So you can play it with a 1V/Oct keyboard, or sequence with, say a SH-101... Except it uses S-trigger for envelope triggering instead of gate. You can probably work around this with the ESP.

But otherwise, it is not a 1V/Oct synth. You can't use the MS-20 Mini keyboard to play a 1V/Oct synths and stay in tune. The Mini has the same voltage specs as the original.
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27th January 2013
Old 27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
i don't have 24db filter domain covered in my studio....maybe i should get that first and then a new ms20
They each have a 12db filter. If you put two 12db filters in series it will make a 24db filter.

The Oberheim SEM has PWM which the Korg MS20 doesn't.

The Korg MS20 has Noise and Ring Modulation, which the Oberheim SEM doesn't.

Plus both the oscillators and the filters sound noticably different.

So overall, I think it would be a good combination.

If you want to patch them together to do CV modulation you might need some attenuators to control the depths of the modulations.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey M View Post
You can't use the MS-20 Mini keyboard to play a 1V/Oct synths and stay in tune. The Mini has the same voltage specs as the original.
Are you sure about that? Perhaps I misunderstood the specs posted on KORG's website, but I got the impression it would be possible to control external V/Oct synths with the keyboard and have them track properly. If not, then I'm bummed. Could you please elaborate?
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Are you sure about that? Perhaps I misunderstood the specs posted on KORG's website, but I got the impression it would be possible to control external V/Oct synths with the keyboard and have them track properly. If not, then I'm bummed. Could you please elaborate?
I'm 99.9% sure that Mini MS is same as original on this -> kbd out is V/Hz not 1V/Oct.

edit: and for interfacing with other synths you'll need gate translator anyway, so it's not just cable patching even if kbd out is 1V/oct. I bet we'll see such translators on market very soon.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Are you sure about that? Perhaps I misunderstood the specs posted on KORG's website, but I got the impression it would be possible to control external V/Oct synths with the keyboard and have them track properly. If not, then I'm bummed. Could you please elaborate?
Well, I was before you asked. Now I'm not that sure anymore That is how the original worked.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Are you sure about that? Perhaps I misunderstood the specs posted on KORG's website, but I got the impression it would be possible to control external V/Oct synths with the keyboard and have them track properly. If not, then I'm bummed. Could you please elaborate?
The specs said exponential 0-8V on KBD out and linear 0-8V on Osc input.
I think thats the same as the original.
So the CV out is Hz/V, perfect for me, but I see your problem.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
I'm 99.9% sure that Mini MS is same as original on this -> kbd out is V/Hz not 1V/Oct.

edit: and for interfacing with other synths you'll need gate translator anyway, so it's not just cable patching even if kbd out is 1V/oct. I bet we'll see such translators on market very soon.
One reason I like the Doepfer MAQ16/3 so much. You can use Midi and CV in conjunction. No problem to fire the MS-20 mini via Midi and do all the filter and amp accents via CV. This setup I was using on my JP-6 for years with very interesting results.
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27th January 2013
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PERFECT analogy! your opinion matters! thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Yes, they would compliment one another quite well!

MS-20: "Oh, that's a stunning white dress you're wearing SEM darling."

SEM: "My you look handsome and rugged in that dark suit!"
what a Blast!


Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
I intend to do this with my own patch panel SEM. I believe the MS-20 mini will integrate perfectly into my current semi-modular rig consisting of a SEM, 2x Dark Energy and a Dark Time. I'm totally stoked!
right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey M View Post
There's only one input for combined VCO1 and VCO2 modulation, that can be adjusted to 1V/Oct. So you can play it with a 1V/Oct keyboard, or sequence with, say a SH-101... Except it uses S-trigger for envelope triggering instead of gate. You can probably work around this with the ESP.

But otherwise, it is not a 1V/Oct synth. You can't use the MS-20 Mini keyboard to play a 1V/Oct synths and stay in tune. The Mini has the same voltage specs as the original.
+ the MS-20 mini has triangle wave...how do you mean exactly to put two filters in series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus Voltage View Post
They each have a 12db filter. If you put two 12db filters in series it will make a 24db filter.

The Oberheim SEM has PWM which the Korg MS20 doesn't.

The Korg MS20 has Noise and Ring Modulation, which the Oberheim SEM doesn't.

Plus both the oscillators and the filters sound noticably different.

So overall, I think it would be a good combination.

If you want to patch them together to do CV modulation you might need some attenuators to control the depths of the modulations.

Last edited by Don Solaris; 27th January 2013 at 08:13 PM.. Reason: You can use multiquote (or copy paste) rather than back to back posting.
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Thanks everyone for the info.

Looks like I need to give some more thought on how best to integrate the MS-20 Mini into my rig. I've got a Kenton Pro 2000 mk II MIDI/CV interface with a few tricks up its sleeves regarding voltage tracking, triggers/gates, etc. but I was hoping the MS-20 keyboard would simplify things, not complicate them further. As it stands I'm now thinking the keyboard is going to be of limited use to me for anything other than controlling the KORG since not even the Kenton can do much about the Hz/V CV output.

In any case, I still want one. I'm sure solutions can be found.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
how do you mean exactly to put two filters in series?
Put an oscillator (or any sound source) into the input of a filter. Then take the output of that filter and put it into the input of a second filter.
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got it, thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus Voltage View Post
Put an oscillator (or any sound source) into the input of a filter. Then take the output of that filter and put it into the input of a second filter.
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you can always control it via midi out, do you have SEM Pro or patch panel version?


Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Thanks everyone for the info.

Looks like I need to give some more thought on how best to integrate the MS-20 Mini into my rig. I've got a Kenton Pro 2000 mk II MIDI/CV interface with a few tricks up its sleeves regarding voltage tracking, triggers/gates, etc. but I was hoping the MS-20 keyboard would simplify things, not complicate them further. As it stands I'm now thinking the keyboard is going to be of limited use to me for anything other than controlling the KORG since not even the Kenton can do much about the Hz/V CV output.

In any case, I still want one. I'm sure solutions can be found.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Thanks everyone for the info.

Looks like I need to give some more thought on how best to integrate the MS-20 Mini into my rig. I've got a Kenton Pro 2000 mk II MIDI/CV interface with a few tricks up its sleeves regarding voltage tracking, triggers/gates, etc. but I was hoping the MS-20 keyboard would simplify things, not complicate them further. As it stands I'm now thinking the keyboard is going to be of limited use to me for anything other than controlling the KORG since not even the Kenton can do much about the Hz/V CV output.

In any case, I still want one. I'm sure solutions can be found.
This thread is a perfect reminder of why those clever people invented midi all those years ago.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_Che View Post
you can always control it via midi out, do you have SEM Pro or patch panel version?
I have a patch panel SEM. I had envisioned the MS-20 Mini as a kind of control centre complete with keyboard interface to interact with my other semi-modular gear without having to deal with USB (which means dealing with a computer). There's no MIDI out on the KORG, so I would have to use USB if I wanted to control the SEM or Dark Energy from the MS-20's keyboard (at least TONALLY). Not the end of the world… but firing up a DAW is not a daily event in my studio. As I said, I need to give all this some more thought. Before the MS-20 Mini was announced I was actually considering a Minibrute to serve in this capacity. But it doesn't look as cool. haha
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@Daniel and Lotus Voltage:


a 2 x 12dB/Oct. setup, in this case one a screaming sallen-key filter and other a fat warm state variable OTA filter, will sound their own thing in series combination, but absolutely different from a dedicated transistor ladder or Roland style BA662 24dB/Oct filter. different designs, different sounds. there's more to filters than number of poles.


further in order to emulate the a single 24dB synth with that combo, you need to feed both the same CV control from ENVs and LFOs etc.. gets complicated if you will need that on daily basis, and you basically need two synths for one sound.


to the OP, i would by all means second the suggestion Relis had, get something with meat n potates 24dB filter for bass and arpeggios... like Roland SH series, or minitaur first... that will complement SEM much better than MS, and you have two separate independent synth lines covering the basics from the get go.


as you said, maybe miniMS20 later for modularity and another flavor. the price is insane. hard to resist. honestly, all three together cost peanuts when you look at how much a minimoog or odyssey cost nowadays. these are absolutely great times to start a small analog setup (complemented by ITB stuff).



my 2 cents
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
a 2 x 12dB/Oct. setup, in this case one a screaming sallen-key filter and other a fat warm state variable OTA filter, will sound their own thing in series combination, but absolutely different from a dedicated transistor ladder or Roland style BA662 24dB/Oct filter. different designs, different sounds. there's more to filters than number of poles.
I do agree that it won't sound the same as a single dedicated 24db filter. But that doesn't mean it will sound bad. I have made some great sounds by using different filters in series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
further in order to emulate the a single 24dB synth with that combo, you need to feed both the same CV control from ENVs and LFOs etc.. gets complicated if you will need that on daily basis, and you basically need two synths for one sound.
Take the CV output of your modulation source (envelope or LFO) and insert it into a multiple, take two outputs from the multiple and insert one into the CV input of the MS20 filter and the other into the CV input of the SEM filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
to the OP, i would by all means second the suggestion Relis had, get something with meat n potates 24dB filter for bass and arpeggios... like Roland SH series, or minitaur first... that will complement SEM much better than MS, and you have two separate independent synth lines covering the basics from the get go.
I agree that the Roland SH series are nice synths and would be another good option.
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27th January 2013
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you are right, 24dB basis first...probably Minitaur or Vermona Lancet (again)
yes, the price of new ms20 is insanely great!

a few weeks i had the SH09 in my studio, cosmetically great, but extremely dusty and noisy...didn't feel it was right for me, but it's a great synth for sure

still haven't decide if i want to sell my juno 60 for 1500e!
something is pulling me back, although it's a deal of the century!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
@Daniel and Lotus Voltage:


a 2 x 12dB/Oct. setup, in this case one a screaming sallen-key filter and other a fat warm state variable OTA filter, will sound their own thing in series combination, but absolutely different from a dedicated transistor ladder or Roland style BA662 24dB/Oct filter. different designs, different sounds. there's more to filters than number of poles.


further in order to emulate the a single 24dB synth with that combo, you need to feed both the same CV control from ENVs and LFOs etc.. gets complicated if you will need that on daily basis, and you basically need two synths for one sound.


to the OP, i would by all means second the suggestion Relis had, get something with meat n potates 24dB filter for bass and arpeggios... like Roland SH series, or minitaur first... that will complement SEM much better than MS, and you have two separate independent synth lines covering the basics from the get go.


as you said, maybe miniMS20 later for modularity and another flavor. the price is insane. hard to resist. honestly, all three together cost peanuts when you look at how much a minimoog or odyssey cost nowadays. these are absolutely great times to start a small analog setup (complemented by ITB stuff).



my 2 cents
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27th January 2013
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Lancet sounds bloody amazing to my ears.
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yes, and i still regret for selling it! might buy it again, and it's only 420euros!

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Lancet sounds bloody amazing to my ears.
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27th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Lancet sounds bloody amazing to my ears.
Yes the Vermona Mono Lancet sounds beautiful. And with the modular dock you can expand it's range of sounds considerably. The Filter Lancet and Retroverb Lancet (also both made by Vermona) are excellent as well.
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Right, the only thing I didn't like on Lancet is the need for that modular dock to have PWM.
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