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Why is my break louder than the drop?
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Lallo
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#1
26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Why is my break louder than the drop?

I've been thinking about this before but always forgot to ask. I'm working on a preview right now that I will send to some guys. The preview contains the frist break, buildup and drop of a progressive house track.

I noticed that the break sounds much louder than the drop, even if the limiter shows "more volume" on the drop.

In the break there are maybe 3 sounds going on together with a bunch of white noise effects and some cymbals.

In the drop there is kick, snare, bassline, lead and cymbals. There is a lot more going on here so to say.

Does it have to to with all the sounds taking up space from other sounds ? In the end, it should sound quieter because of that, just muddy?

What can I do to prevent this? atleast I would want the drop to be as loud as the break, or else there would be a huge loss in energy when the drop comes.
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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dont use a limiter then?
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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seems like the more sounds are hitting the limiter and pushing it down vs the breakdown less sounds never hit the ceiling.
Lallo
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioRadar View Post
dont use a limiter then?
There is a limiter on the master bus and I cant say I know how to master my track without a limiter....
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lallo View Post
There is a limiter on the master bus and I cant say I know how to master my track without a limiter....
Turn the limiter off.
Just turn everything down until your mastermix doesn't clip anymore or even leave some frakkin headroom.

It's not hard you'know?


Just crank up your speaker amps to compensate.
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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i'd say it's the difference of frequency content between the break vs. drop...
limiters do not hear like our ears...
(*read about the equal loudness contour (or fletcher munson))

example >
play a 50hz tone and a 1khz tone at the same (numerical) level...are they equal loudness to your ears?
they are to a limiter...
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse View Post
Turn the limiter off.
Just turn everything down until your mastermix doesn't clip anymore or even leave some frakkin headroom.

It's not hard you'know?


Just crank up your speaker amps to compensate.
bit harsh words but yeah, that's pretty much it...
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkyfingers View Post
i'd say it's the difference of frequency content between the break vs. drop...
limiters do not hear like our ears...
(*read about the equal loudness contour (or fletcher munson))

example >
play a 50hz tone and a 1khz tone at the same (numerical) level...are they equal loudness to your ears?
they are to a limiter...
Which mean I should focus energy in mid frequencies? I've been trying to do that but I always end up having a lot of enery from 2khz to 5khz. When remove this energy to balance it with mid frequencies, I always lose much energy. Commercial tracks I hear have a lot energy in the mid but still sound clear somehow.
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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I still dont get why people put anything on their master bus

Mix to -12db...bring the volume up in a separate project, limiting the entire track while mixing is not mastering it
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Lallo
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
I still dont get why people put anything on their master bus

Mix to -12db...bring the volume up in a separate project, limiting the entire track while mixing is not mastering it
I'm mastering the track myself so in the end I will have a limiter anyway. But I dont think this is about the limiter, I dont leave much for mastering, I think its a mixing problem.
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lallo View Post
Which mean I should focus energy in mid frequencies? I've been trying to do that but I always end up having a lot of enery from 2khz to 5khz. When remove this energy to balance it with mid frequencies, I always lose much energy. Commercial tracks I hear have a lot energy in the mid but still sound clear somehow.
have you tried cutting, not boosting, e.g. eqing the lower or higher midrange?
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Given that you've said you have a limiter on the 2-bus and for whatever reason haven't accepted the necessary advice of removing it; that you responded to this post
Quote:
i'd say it's the difference of frequency content between the break vs. drop...
limiters do not hear like our ears...
(*read about the equal loudness contour (or fletcher munson))
example >
play a 50hz tone and a 1khz tone at the same (numerical) level...are they equal loudness to your ears?
they are to a limiter...
and ignored this one
Quote:
Turn the limiter off.
Just turn everything down until your mastermix doesn't clip anymore or even leave some frakkin headroom.
It's not hard you'know?
Just crank up your speaker amps to compensate.
and that you then said this
Quote:
But I dont think this is about the limiter, I dont leave much for mastering, I think its a mixing problem.
it's obvious that you know and just don't want to admit that it is the limiter. It's a classic problem with guitarists using voltage-drop/current-flow compression: the parts that are supposed to be most distorted and over-the-top aggressive sounding can come out flat and weak sounding by comparison with the "tamer" parts. The reason? They don't know what they're doing or how to set their amp-preamp situation to get the effect they want.

Remove the ****ing limiter, turn down the overall mix so it doesn't clip the output, and crank your monitors. Notice how it sounds way more like the way you want it to than it did before you did those things? That's because the advice already given in this thread is good advice, if you're willing to admit it into your brain.
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#13
26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lallo View Post
I'm mastering the track myself so in the end I will have a limiter anyway. But I dont think this is about the limiter, I dont leave much for mastering, I think its a mixing problem.
It only makes sense to master when the mix is right. And admitting that you cannot mix (yet) implies that you're still miles away from mastering. (Unless you think mastering is choosing some preset from Ozone.)

Focus on mixing first.
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26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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If the break touches the limiter AT ALL then you know you have a problem. Think about it. Some soft pads and white noise take up ALL of your headroom...so when the drop comes, there's no room for all the new elements! They sound tiny in comparison to the break which was already big to begin with.

It's pretty easy to make the drop louder than the break...just make the break quieter than the drop! Automate the track volume so that it's quieter in the break than the drop. Easy...
#15
26th January 2013
Old 26th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lallo View Post
There is a limiter on the master bus and I cant say I know how to master my track without a limiter....
sounds more like that you dont know how to master it at all.

And mixing means to make the parts as loud as you want them to be.. not pasting blocks together
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