Vocal Sample Clearence Issue!

[golden beers]

No don't bother.

Says this random guy on the Internet.

[stuheimer]

Just small snippets are no problem. You need clearing if the original track is recognizeable.

[Schwarzwald]

Sample whatever you want, nobody cares, unless they do, and then they'll sue you, and you'll find out for sure.

I wouldn't worry myself until I had to.
Then I'd come on here and make a thread about finding a pro bono music law major.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Schwarzwald

Sample whatever you want, nobody cares, unless they do, and then they'll sue you, and you'll find out for sure.

I wouldn't worry myself until I had to.
Then I'd come on here and make a thread about finding a pro bono music law major.

no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.
if you use some recognisable sample, clear it first. you'll be able to make a deal. if you don't then use something else. have a singer redo the part with some changes. when they sue you you're in a very different negotiation.

if the sample is not recognisable, it means you've changed it into something else. you are then the creator and have copyright of the track it is used in.

[narcoman]

Official advice is you must clear all samples. Otherwise when someone recognises the sample they might come after ya!!..... capiche?

And no - don't anyone fill in the blanks........

[Schwarzwald]

Originally Posted by Reptil

no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.
if you use some recognisable sample, clear it first. you'll be able to make a deal. if you don't then use something else. have a singer redo the part with some changes. when they sue you you're in a very different negotiation.

if the sample is not recognisable, it means you've changed it into something else. you are then the creator and have copyright of the track it is used in.

Haha, I was being purposefully crude. Sorry if that didn't come across. Hopefully OP didn't take me seriously and take a slab out of the latest Adele tune.

[hazabikit]

It's your ass -- nobody's going to save you when the lawyers come knocking.

[newguy1]

Don't worry about it. Sample first, ask questions later.

No one's going to care unless the track with the sample is a hit, in which case its going to be released on a legit label, in which case they'll handle clearing it for you. I've done that a couple times, the label always handles it and puts the clearance on their dime. If no label is involved, its too small a release and no one will care. The lawyers will never come knocking.

Originally Posted by Reptil

no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.

Who? When? Where? Decades later? There may be a small point in time years ago when hip hop first unexpectedly took off, but these days labels clear anything released, and if its not a label release then no one cares because there's no money involved.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by newguy1

Don't worry about it. Sample first, ask questions later.

No one's going to care unless the track with the sample is a hit, in which case its going to be released on a legit label, in which case they'll handle clearing it for you. I've done that a couple times, the label always handles it and puts the clearance on their dime. If no label is involved, its too small a release and no one will care. The lawyers will never come knocking.

99% true. But the Hendrix, Sinatra and Morrison estate come down pretty hard on ANYONE they find. In the 90s I sat on the wrong end of a Hendrix sample on a tiny tiny mix tape that was not released but it got handed around.

Secondly - again - it's against the law so is not appropriate advice to give on an open forum. Sooner or later one of these IS going to end in tears.....

[newguy1]

Originally Posted by narcoman

99% true. But the Hendrix, Sinatra and Morrison estate come down pretty hard on ANYONE they find. In the 90s I sat on the wrong end of a Hendrix sample on a tiny tiny mix tape that was not released but it got handed around.

Really? Here are a few hundred songs they've cleared. I don't see them spending money chasing a sample on a tiny mixtape. Something doesn't add up, it must have made considerable money in some way, or there was some other extenuating circumstance.

Jimi Hendrix Music Sampled by Others | WhoSampled

[narcoman]

We didn't clear it. I was a primary push on EMI. The Hendrix estate used to be a lot tougher than they are now and they took great umbrage when a copy of the tape turned up through A&R (lawyers).

[newguy1]

Originally Posted by narcoman

We didn't clear it. I was a primary push on EMI. The Hendrix estate used to be a lot tougher than they are now and they took great umbrage when a copy of the tape turned up through A&R (lawyers).

Yeah a major label push with no clearance is pretty much the only way to run into issues. Labels don't let that happen these days.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by newguy1

Yeah a major label push with no clearance is pretty much the only way to run into issues. Labels don't let that happen these days.

The point being - people assume that nothing will happen to them. The problem is with classic estates like Hendrix being represented by lawyers who have their own agenda to push. Remember those issues of grandmas being sued because they downloaded 6 files back in the early 2000s? Lawyers with an axe to grind. People sit on forums all day long saying "yeah - go and do it, it won't matter"..... sooner or later someone runs into a busy body with an axe to grind!!

I've gotten away with unbelievable things in the past. And then been punished for tiny infringements. Generally nothing does happen but heres the deal:

it might

and the laws the law!!

[stixman]

Law of the jungle

[Susceptor]

Originally Posted by narcoman

and the laws the law!!

Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.

[tgray69]

Thanks for all the interesting responses. It seems quite risky to use it, even though I can't recognize the sample! I'll give it some more thought, and maybe record some new vocals, or if the label decides to take my track, I'll get them to deal with this issue.

Thanks Again!

[newguy1]

Originally Posted by tgray69

Thanks for all the interesting responses. It seems quite risky to use it, even though I can't recognize the sample! I'll give it some more thought, and maybe record some new vocals, or if the label decides to take my track, I'll get them to deal with this issue.

Thanks Again!

Millions of tracks use samples for every one that gets busted. The odds are millions to one. And if you can't recognize the sample, and you know exactly what it is, no one else will either. Putting the odds at probably a billion to one. Not "quite risky" at all.

[dgc]

It's the label's liability ultimately, and therefore, their discretion really. In your case, I wouldn't put much thought to it. With the type of use you're describing, I can't see it being much of a problem.

[Yoozer]

This thread already incriminates you.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Susceptor

Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.

lol - true. though there's such a thing as honor. and the two (healthy disrespect for authority and doing what's right) don't have to bite each other.
"Tell the truth and you'll never have to remember anything" Mark Twain

I get the point about "they'll never find out". but with computers getting more powerful, and each and every digit being recorded; you'll be amazed what they'll drag up in not such a long time from now. do a search for "Stellarwind" on the internet

sjeesh there's so many unemployed singers around, give them a crisp 50 bill, make them a cup of tea, and your prepared stuff, and you can record the ****** out of them. get a nice cheap ribbon mic and DIY a mic amp if you're on a budget and put some vocal booth together. As a learning process, it's way more satisfying than ripping, and you can use that knowledge for your next track. IMHO a win-win

I repeat, if the sample's not recognisable, it's a new sound and thus.. yours.

but hey it's your world, and anyone should do whatever suits them best!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Susceptor

Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.

I'm guessing you don't work?

[Reptil]

oookayyyy I'm closing this thread, all (possible) answers are on the table.