Login / Register
 
Vocal Sample Clearence Issue!
Closed
Subscribe
tgray69
Thread Starter
#1
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #1
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7

Thread Starter
tgray69 is offline
Vocal Sample Clearence Issue!

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I understand the importance of supporting artists by having samples cleared, and crediting them, regardless of how tiny the length of the sample is, or how often it is used in the production.

What I am confused with - Do I have to have a sample cleared if it is unidentifiable? I am making a tech-house track and I am using an acapella from a progressive house track. I have taken about 4 or 5 slices from it which are about 1-2 seconds long (the oos and ahhs from the end of certain words). I have then reversed these samples and applied loads of reverb and delay, and then routed this channel to an aux channel which contains loads of reverb and delay, in order to get the deep vocal pad I was looking for. The result of this is that this sample is unquestionably different and unrecognizable from the original. This effect is used for several minutes of the track.

So do you think I should still contact the original label to try and get clearance, even though it is probably unlikely they'll give it to me?

Thanks!
#2
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,155

golden beers is offline
No don't bother.

Says this random guy on the Internet.
1
#3
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #3
Gear Head
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 38

stuheimer is offline
Just small snippets are no problem. You need clearing if the original track is recognizeable.
#4
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Schwarzwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,271

Schwarzwald is offline
Sample whatever you want, nobody cares, unless they do, and then they'll sue you, and you'll find out for sure.

I wouldn't worry myself until I had to.
Then I'd come on here and make a thread about finding a pro bono music law major.
__________________
100% Volca Bass Tech House
https://soundcloud.com/counterrevolt/hard-to-breathe-by-french
https://soundcloud.com/counterrevolt/long-days-and-nights-by

Quote:
Originally Posted by offki View Post
TEESTO NEVER DID THIS SHIT!!
1
#5
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #5
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
Sample whatever you want, nobody cares, unless they do, and then they'll sue you, and you'll find out for sure.

I wouldn't worry myself until I had to.
Then I'd come on here and make a thread about finding a pro bono music law major.
no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.
if you use some recognisable sample, clear it first. you'll be able to make a deal. if you don't then use something else. have a singer redo the part with some changes. when they sue you you're in a very different negotiation.

if the sample is not recognisable, it means you've changed it into something else. you are then the creator and have copyright of the track it is used in.
__________________
"You must have Chaos within you, to give Birth to a dancing Star" Friedrich Nietzsche

for sale a complete SERGE SYNTHESIZER (Creature, EQ-Shift, BOG)

for sale EURORACK MODULAR CASE


#6
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #6
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 11,680

narcoman is offline
Official advice is you must clear all samples. Otherwise when someone recognises the sample they might come after ya!!..... capiche?

And no - don't anyone fill in the blanks........
#7
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Schwarzwald's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,271

Schwarzwald is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.
if you use some recognisable sample, clear it first. you'll be able to make a deal. if you don't then use something else. have a singer redo the part with some changes. when they sue you you're in a very different negotiation.

if the sample is not recognisable, it means you've changed it into something else. you are then the creator and have copyright of the track it is used in.

Haha, I was being purposefully crude. Sorry if that didn't come across. Hopefully OP didn't take me seriously and take a slab out of the latest Adele tune.
#8
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #8
Gear maniac
 
hazabikit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 185

hazabikit is offline
It's your ass -- nobody's going to save you when the lawyers come knocking.
__________________
"It was really like jewelry work, working precisely." -- Guy-Manuel de Homem-Christo
#9
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,520

newguy1 is offline
Don't worry about it. Sample first, ask questions later.

No one's going to care unless the track with the sample is a hit, in which case its going to be released on a legit label, in which case they'll handle clearing it for you. I've done that a couple times, the label always handles it and puts the clearance on their dime. If no label is involved, its too small a release and no one will care. The lawyers will never come knocking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
no, that's not the good way to go about it. MANY artists have done that and had to pay HUGE sums of money. often years, decades later.
Who? When? Where? Decades later? There may be a small point in time years ago when hip hop first unexpectedly took off, but these days labels clear anything released, and if its not a label release then no one cares because there's no money involved.
#10
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #10
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 11,680

narcoman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Don't worry about it. Sample first, ask questions later.

No one's going to care unless the track with the sample is a hit, in which case its going to be released on a legit label, in which case they'll handle clearing it for you. I've done that a couple times, the label always handles it and puts the clearance on their dime. If no label is involved, its too small a release and no one will care. The lawyers will never come knocking.
99% true. But the Hendrix, Sinatra and Morrison estate come down pretty hard on ANYONE they find. In the 90s I sat on the wrong end of a Hendrix sample on a tiny tiny mix tape that was not released but it got handed around.

Secondly - again - it's against the law so is not appropriate advice to give on an open forum. Sooner or later one of these IS going to end in tears.....
#11
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,520

newguy1 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
99% true. But the Hendrix, Sinatra and Morrison estate come down pretty hard on ANYONE they find. In the 90s I sat on the wrong end of a Hendrix sample on a tiny tiny mix tape that was not released but it got handed around.

Really? Here are a few hundred songs they've cleared. I don't see them spending money chasing a sample on a tiny mixtape. Something doesn't add up, it must have made considerable money in some way, or there was some other extenuating circumstance.

Jimi Hendrix Music Sampled by Others | WhoSampled
#12
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #12
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 11,680

narcoman is offline
We didn't clear it. I was a primary push on EMI. The Hendrix estate used to be a lot tougher than they are now and they took great umbrage when a copy of the tape turned up through A&R (lawyers).
#13
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,520

newguy1 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
We didn't clear it. I was a primary push on EMI. The Hendrix estate used to be a lot tougher than they are now and they took great umbrage when a copy of the tape turned up through A&R (lawyers).
Yeah a major label push with no clearance is pretty much the only way to run into issues. Labels don't let that happen these days.
#14
31st December 2012
Old 31st December 2012
  #14
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 11,680

narcoman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yeah a major label push with no clearance is pretty much the only way to run into issues. Labels don't let that happen these days.
The point being - people assume that nothing will happen to them. The problem is with classic estates like Hendrix being represented by lawyers who have their own agenda to push. Remember those issues of grandmas being sued because they downloaded 6 files back in the early 2000s? Lawyers with an axe to grind. People sit on forums all day long saying "yeah - go and do it, it won't matter"..... sooner or later someone runs into a busy body with an axe to grind!!

I've gotten away with unbelievable things in the past. And then been punished for tiny infringements. Generally nothing does happen but heres the deal:

it might

and the laws the law!!
#15
31st December 2012
Old 31st December 2012
  #15
Gear nut
 
stixman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 118

stixman is offline
Law of the jungle
#16
31st December 2012
Old 31st December 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Susceptor's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Romania
Posts: 955

Susceptor is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post

and the laws the law!!

Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.
tgray69
Thread Starter
#17
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
  #17
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7

Thread Starter
tgray69 is offline
Thanks for all the interesting responses. It seems quite risky to use it, even though I can't recognize the sample! I'll give it some more thought, and maybe record some new vocals, or if the label decides to take my track, I'll get them to deal with this issue.

Thanks Again!
#18
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,520

newguy1 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgray69 View Post
Thanks for all the interesting responses. It seems quite risky to use it, even though I can't recognize the sample! I'll give it some more thought, and maybe record some new vocals, or if the label decides to take my track, I'll get them to deal with this issue.

Thanks Again!
Millions of tracks use samples for every one that gets busted. The odds are millions to one. And if you can't recognize the sample, and you know exactly what it is, no one else will either. Putting the odds at probably a billion to one. Not "quite risky" at all.
dgc
#19
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
  #19
dgc
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 39

dgc is offline
It's the label's liability ultimately, and therefore, their discretion really. In your case, I wouldn't put much thought to it. With the type of use you're describing, I can't see it being much of a problem.
#20
3rd January 2013
Old 3rd January 2013
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: yurp
Posts: 11,512

Yoozer is offline
This thread already incriminates you.
#21
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #21
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.
lol - true. though there's such a thing as honor. and the two (healthy disrespect for authority and doing what's right) don't have to bite each other.
"Tell the truth and you'll never have to remember anything" Mark Twain

I get the point about "they'll never find out". but with computers getting more powerful, and each and every digit being recorded; you'll be amazed what they'll drag up in not such a long time from now. do a search for "Stellarwind" on the internet

sjeesh there's so many unemployed singers around, give them a crisp 50 bill, make them a cup of tea, and your prepared stuff, and you can record the ****** out of them. get a nice cheap ribbon mic and DIY a mic amp if you're on a budget and put some vocal booth together. As a learning process, it's way more satisfying than ripping, and you can use that knowledge for your next track. IMHO a win-win

I repeat, if the sample's not recognisable, it's a new sound and thus.. yours.

but hey it's your world, and anyone should do whatever suits them best!
#22
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #22
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 11,680

narcoman is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susceptor View Post
Authority exists in the mind of the weak and fearful.
I'm guessing you don't work?
3
#23
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #23
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,601

Reptil is offline
oookayyyy I'm closing this thread, all (possible) answers are on the table.
Closed Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
matt9b / Music Computers
32
TonyBelmont / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
88
Melodioso / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
5
danijel / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
4
ISedlacek / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
29

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.