oscillation wave tables etc
Old 29th December 2012
  #1
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oscillation wave tables etc

anyone had experience not using saws and squares to make synthlines leads etc instead using sines/triangles with shaper or slight distortion makes a much smoother easier on the ears production session, infact i dont think saws and squares are used for anything but lfo and noobs.

give it a try

frier tuck
Old 29th December 2012
  #2
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quite a statement
I like PWM-ed squares, personally, as raw and nasty as they come
how do you feel about filters? how do you use them?
you do know that with a filter a square can become a sine?
we (collective) have done some digging and tried to put a comprehensive file together
have a look please?
Synthesis tips and tutorials - How to create your own patches

and welcome Frier Tuck, I'll get my wooden pole
Old 29th December 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
quite a statement
I like PWM-ed squares, personally, as raw and nasty as they come
how do you feel about filters? how do you use them?
you do know that with a filter a square can become a sine?

and welcome Frier Tuck, I'll get my wooden pole

each to there own, although yes no one with half a brain ever opens up a filter fully, also by nasty sound are we talking ear pain or lush thick synth lines with the right amount of bite? because personaly i dont like ear pain it's usually a sign of noobism
Old 29th December 2012
  #4
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Old 29th December 2012
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
quite a statement
I like PWM-ed squares, personally, as raw and nasty as they come
how do you feel about filters? how do you use them?
you do know that with a filter a square can become a sine?
we (collective) have done some digging and tried to put a comprehensive file together
have a look please?
Synthesis tips and tutorials - How to create your own patches

and welcome Frier Tuck, I'll get my wooden pole
lets say i prefer to experiment with audio rather than read disinformation when everyone's fighting for the same target audience do u understand what i mean reptil, just passing some useful info for less experienced engineers to ponder i for one have always thought is there some magic wand that can turn this lead sound lush when it was in fact the wrong wave-table osc etc

u do notice pro music is never tiresome on the ears?
Old 29th December 2012
  #6
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there's music out there that's so compressed that all the peaks are square waves, this (because of sudden changes in voltage level/air pressure) creates more harmonics and not the ones that are pleasant to our ear/brain.
so, yes, square waves are tiring, but IMHO (this entering subjective terrain) it's interesting to put a nasty square bass behind a lovely filtered pad. no, there's no "magic trick". apart from each musician's abillity to put sounds into the right context and time.
no disinfo, just physics, and artistic implementation of those.
go ahead, take a look at those threads
Old 29th December 2012
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
there's music out there that's so compressed that all the peaks are square waves, this (because of sudden changes in voltage level/air pressure) creates more harmonics and not the ones that are pleasant to our ear/brain.
so, yes, square waves are tiring, but IMHO (this entering subjective terrain) it's interesting to put a nasty square bass behind a lovely filtered pad. no, there's no "magic trick". apart from each musician's abillity to put sounds into the right context and time.
no disinfo, just physics, and artistic implementation of those.
go ahead, take a look at those threads
im just trying to say a sine wave with shaper can have just the right amount of bite than trying to smooth a square to sound unfatiguing but exciting for lack of a better term
Old 29th December 2012
  #8
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I'm rather fond of triangles myself
Old 29th December 2012
  #9
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ONLY NEWBS USE SQUARE/SAW WAVETABLEZ! PRO TRAXX NEVRBHURTIN MY EARZ! NO 1 WITH HALF A BRAIN EVEr oPeNZ A FILTER ALL THE WAY!


Ridiculous trolling.

But yes, I often use wave shapers, FM, and other techniques to generate harmonics from simpler waveforms.
Old 29th December 2012
  #10
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Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
ONLY NEWBS USE SQUARE/SAW WAVETABLEZ! PRO TRAXX NEVRBHURTIN MY EARZ! NO 1 WITH HALF A BRAIN EVEr oPeNZ A FILTER ALL THE WAY!


Ridiculous trolling.

But yes, I often use wave shapers, FM, and other techniques to generate harmonics from simpler waveforms.
its actually a genuine thread,give it a try sure it wont write u a top ten single but it will give u the opportunity to practice alot without fatigued ears and a lead synth that still sounds nothing like a pro's, putting distortion on a square/saw wave is not the way to work, just sayin
Old 30th December 2012
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
ONLY NEWBS USE SQUARE/SAW WAVETABLEZ! PRO TRAXX NEVRBHURTIN MY EARZ! NO 1 WITH HALF A BRAIN EVEr oPeNZ A FILTER ALL THE WAY!


Ridiculous trolling.

But yes, I often use wave shapers, FM, and other techniques to generate harmonics from simpler waveforms.
logical reaction.
but sometimes it may not be what it looks like.
some mindnumbingly different approach may perhaps be useful to fuel a discussion. (or it may not be, let's see )

frier tuck also has to realise that many already have thought about this, and have our own personal preferences. and he might be preaching to the choir.

you need an avatar frier tuck!


of course the use of any filter, and what source will determine if it's ear-shattering needles, or thick lush pads. but who am I to say ear-piercing sounds are "wrong"? or even decide if any music is "wrong"? I may find it repulsive, and when my GF plays Justin Biebers last track on my main system one more time (to spite me) I might lose it, but.......... I don't have any reason to regard one way of synthesis above another as an ethical issue.

frier tuck, time to post some examples perhaps? what are your favorite sounds, tracks, filter types etc.? It's all a little vague
Old 30th December 2012
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frier tuck View Post
each to there own, although yes no one with half a brain ever opens up a filter fully, ...
why not? there's many differernt sounds, and filters and infinite ways to combine those.
many times I don't even use a filter.
case in point (not my video)
Old 30th December 2012
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frier tuck View Post
i dont think saws and squares are used for anything but lfo and noobs
Yeah, P5s and SEMs are not actually used and never were used to make music, they are overpriced kitchen appliances.
Old 30th December 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
logical reaction.
but sometimes it may not be what it looks like.
some mindnumbingly different approach may perhaps be useful to fuel a discussion. (or it may not be, let's see
Fair enough :-) I'll try to keep it positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
many times I don't even use a filter.
+1. I started my modular system primarily to add different filters to my monosynths, but quickly moved away from the traditional subtractive synthesis paradigm. With the DPO, Hertz Donut, Cyclebox, and wavetable oscillators like the Piston Honda and E350 I rarely use a filter.
Old 30th December 2012
  #15
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thanks!

same here, I use filters now more as a mixing tool than as required part to make a synth sound
so I'm afraid there are no rules as far as waveforms are concerned
Old 30th December 2012
  #16
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Regularly using an oscilloscope quickly disabused me of the concept of "fixed" waveforms. I really resonate with the "filter as a mixing tool" world-view. I remember my "ah ha" moment of wondering that if all modulation, shaping, reduction and fx creates a unique flowing "wavetable" was my Virus Ti2 really worth the money?
Old 30th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frier tuck View Post
its actually a genuine thread
Try wording it like one then.

I suggest you learn about the concept of subtractive synthesis before calling people names.
Old 30th December 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
Yeah, P5s and SEMs are not actually used and never were used to make music, they are overpriced kitchen appliances.
And quite poor kitchen appliances at that. The Prophet 5 can barely even fry an egg, let alone make toast. The EMS VCS3 sounds like a blender, but that's about it. And I've never seen a more poorly designed cheese grater than the ones on the Yamaha CS-80. Retrieving the cheese takes far too much effort.
Old 30th December 2012
  #19
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I like wavetables, but any doofus knows that the basics of subtractive synthesis is you start with a lot of harmonics (i.e. saw or square) and filter out the ones you don't want. Only the electro house kids play the whole sawtooth wave :P
Old 30th December 2012
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by networkacid View Post
I like wavetables, but any doofus knows that the basics of subtractive synthesis is you start with a lot of harmonics (i.e. saw or square) and filter out the ones you don't want.
Actually it's more complicated than that. Subtractive synthesis is based on using resonant filters. The filter subtracts harmonics in a certain way but the resonance emphasises some frequencies. Add in self oscillation and overdrive and things get even more complex as they will interact with one another.

What the OP is talking about is taking a simpler waveform with less harmonics and processing it in a way that adds harmonics. This is common in the modular world where you can use things like wave folders / shapers to do this (The DPO in the video includes 3 wave shapers and IIRC the metailzer in the minibrute does something similar).
Old 30th December 2012
  #21
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Well I guess it is time to sell my hopelessly outdated,cliche'd, and amateurish Jupiter 8 and focus exclusively on using my XTk. I am sure any future patches I create will not be nearly as difficult to listen to as that Jupiter 8 stuff.
Old 30th December 2012
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefistophelees View Post
What the OP is talking about...
yeah, but when the OP then went on to say that saw and square waves are for noobs, and modulating sine and triangle waves is pro, we start wonder what point was trying to be made. I look at it this way. Adding distortion to a sine/triangle wave is nothing new or professional. It is simply setting the waveform on a synth to sine and adding distortion. If it sounds good, cool. Not sure why we need a thread about it. That would be like if I started a thread that said, has anyone ever cross-modulated two triangle waves and add distortion to create a sound. and go further to add that it is pro to do that. It wouldn't make much sense.
Old 30th December 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
yeah, but when the OP then went on to say that saw and square waves are for noobs, and modulating sine and triangle waves is pro, we start wonder what point was trying to be made.
he made a point 'bout himself: he's either complete troll or heard about synths for the first time about 2 weeks ago. Either way, firm grip on the Sh1t Of The Year award for 2012. on this board.
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Old 30th December 2012
  #24


because #YOLO
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Old 30th December 2012
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpsiegel View Post
Well I guess it is time to sell my hopelessly outdated,cliche'd, and amateurish Jupiter 8 and focus exclusively on using my XTk. I am sure any future patches I create will not be nearly as difficult to listen to as that Jupiter 8 stuff.
You should know that the JP8 contains some highly toxic radioactive isotopes in its circuits that need to be properly taken care of to exacting EPA standards. Fortunately I am a certified to do that; so when you realize it for the worthless piece of outdated analog junk that it is I will gladly, as a service to humanity and country, properly dispose of it for you for NO charge (just this once for a fellow GS member).
Old 30th December 2012
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
he made a point 'bout himself: he's either complete troll or heard about synths for the first time about 2 weeks ago. Either way, firm grip on the Sh1t Of The Year award for 2012. on this board.
I don't know about that. I've seen and participated in a few threads about midi timing lately that take the cake from this one. easily. When people start saying that midi is useless because it can't play two notes at the same time I hit the rip cord. The OP of this thread was at least offering up a creative idea he thought had merit.
Old 31st December 2012
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnsci View Post
Sh1t
Shit isn't word filtered here, I don't think. **** is, and I think **** is too. And believe it or not faggot isn't, yet ****** is.
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Old 9th January 2013
  #28
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bump
Old 10th January 2013
  #29
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Originally Posted by frier tuck View Post
bump
why?
Old 10th January 2013
  #30
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Why?
Because of this!!!
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Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
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