How Do I make Music like this?
Ambience
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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How Do I make Music like this?

The Weeknd - Initiation - YouTube

I look up to Radiohead, Portishead, The Weeknd, jean michel jarre, & Pink Floyd.

I post this thread in this specific section since a ton of there music is electronic. Since I see tons of talent here constantly, I was wondering if anyone here can help me try to reach there production style.

I came to the hard truth that there is not a simple answer for these productions and that you must lock yourself in a studio and figure shit out yourself.

But I am just a young kid looking for some guidance, a push in the right direction so I can get started.

I have all I need in equipment so no more gear excuses.

Thanks guys and I appreciate any help you guys can throw at me.
Ambience
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27th December 2012
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Come on guys lol
#3
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Reverb, brah...
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27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post

you must lock yourself in a studio and figure shit out yourself.
#5
27th December 2012
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what specific parts don't you understand how to do and want to?

I mean, it's drenched in reverb, vocals are heavily processed (vocoder maybe? some 'gentle' autotuning? Filtering for sure. vocal processing isn't my forte, clearly...).

There are delays at work, too. And sounds. Definitely sounds being played and recorded

Oh there's some distortion on these vocals that just came in near the end...

Nobody's going to give you a play by play on every aspect of this song; we need specifics.

And experimentation is good for the mind/soul anyway
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#6
27th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
How Do I make Music like this?
don't... just don't.

even if you somehow end up finding exactly how to go about making music like this (as if this were a complicated style or something).

don't.
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Ambience
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27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisM View Post
what specific parts don't you understand how to do and want to?

I mean, it's drenched in reverb, vocals are heavily processed (vocoder maybe? some 'gentle' autotuning? Filtering for sure. vocal processing isn't my forte, clearly...).

There are delays at work, too. And sounds. Definitely sounds being played and recorded

Oh there's some distortion on these vocals that just came in near the end...

Nobody's going to give you a play by play on every aspect of this song; we need specifics.

And experimentation is good for the mind/soul anyway
The drums are a big part and also WHERE THE FCK ARE THEY GETTING THESE WEIRD SOUND? Or at least the sound source that they are modulating. Lol

I experiment a lot but i hit dead ends extremely quick lol
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
The drums are a big part and also WHERE THE FCK ARE THEY GETTING THESE WEIRD SOUND? Or at least the sound source that they are modulating. Lol

I experiment a lot but i hit dead ends extremely quick lol
Dawg. You said it yourself, "Lock yourself in the studio and figure shit out." That is how all of the people you look up to get their sounds. Grind at it over and over until you're satisfied. Art is an obsession. If you don't let yourself be possessed by it, perhaps you won't ever attain it. Maybe take a break from reading Gearslutz and start shaking your equipment up.
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m.o
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
The drums are a big part and also WHERE THE FCK ARE THEY GETTING THESE WEIRD SOUND? Or at least the sound source that they are modulating. Lol

I experiment a lot but i hit dead ends extremely quick lol
One source for wierd, "unexpected" sound is to sample lots of random stuff, from old records, TV and film. Then chop out really small random pieces from the middle of it and start messing with them - add filters, transpose, stretch, reverb, delays etc. You'll be surprised where you end up after a while.
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#10
27th December 2012
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As a black guy I am even ashamed of this production or release!
750,000 views and all.
out of here
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#11
27th December 2012
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I had a feeling that it would be a thread like this...

And I'm not picking on you, it's just that you're basically asking how to be a virtuoso composer, synth wizard programmer, sound designer, world class engineer and mondo producer. This is like... around two decades or MORE of experience you want in a post or two. And that's pretty hard or something. I learned all that, but it took... basically two decades of experimentation and music dissecting, as well as pouring through the nets for advice on everything. I can't tell you in a couple of posts how I or they or anyone got to where they are. And to be honest, I couldn't listen to more than 30 seconds of that video. And I want my 30 seconds back...

If you want to make whacked out crap, all I can tell you is experiment with some of everything. Take snippets of sound. Run them through panning delays, flangers, compressors, EQs, pitch shifters, tape saturation plugins, Leslie effects, guitar amp sims, anything and everything. If you play guitar yourself, noodle for a half hour or more, snip stuff out and play with it like that. Drums... there are hundreds of thousands of discussions on drums on here, do a search and start browsing. I have a vague idea how they did that vocal effect, but I'm dead tired and afraid I might run down a wrong rabbit hole on that.

I'm not fond of this style at ALL, but it does have the advantage that you can slam almost anything down sparingly, at random, and someone will like it.

Woo, post 300, giving advice. I love thi9s place. And honestly, I love giving advice.
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#12
27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
I had a feeling that it would be a thread like this...

And I'm not picking on you, it's just that you're basically asking how to be a virtuoso composer, synth wizard programmer, sound designer, world class engineer and mondo producer. This is like... around two decades or MORE of experience you want in a post or two. And that's pretty hard or something. I did that, but it took... basically two decades of experimentation and music dissecting, as well as pouring through the nets for advice on everything. I can't tell you in a couple of posts how I or they or anyone got to where they are. And to be honest, I couldn't listen to more than 30 seconds of that video. And I want my 30 seconds back...

If you want to make whacked out crap, all I can tell you is experiment with some of everything. Take snippets of sound. Run them through panning delays, flangers, compressors, EQs, pitch shifters, tape saturation plugins, Leslie effects, guitar amp sims, anything and everything. If you play guitar yourself, noodle for a half hour or more, snip stuff out and play with it like that. Drums... there are hundreds of thousands of discussions on drums on here, do a search and start browsing. I have a vague idea how they did that vocal effect, but I'm dead tired and afraid I might run down a wrong rabbit hole on that.

I'm not fond of this style at ALL, but it does have the advantage that you can slam almost anything down sparingly, at random, and someone will like it.
I want my damn 12 seconds back.
What the hell was that track?

Maybe the world should just end now!
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#13
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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I wonder if people go to piano forums and say stuff like this.

"I've never played piano before. Yet i'd like you to explain to me on the internets how to play like someone who's been playing for 20 years."

Really it kind of shows how people regard beat oriented or electronic music as sort of less than "real music", as if there's some magic combination of boxes and computer programs that will allow you to create perfectly any genre of music with zero effort, experience, or practice.

I wonder if it has anything to do with manufacturers marketing boxes of gear and software that, in little or no effort, will have you sounding like your dance music heroes?
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27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Didn't even listen but those artists you mentioned as influences are heavy into using real synthesizers. I don't even think it's as much that hardware > vst's, it's something about using real instruments and having a group of musicians work together to create music.

And they didn't mix their own stuff--they focus on the song and sounds. I think this is as undervalued in our laptop generation as anything.
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Ambience
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27th December 2012
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All i asked guys was some guidance and a direction to start in.

I clearly stated i know I will not be able to understand these productions and how they were made through the forums.
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27th December 2012
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This is a wild thread isn't it?

I forgot to say, sdrawkcab ffuts yalp.

Wow, I need to get outta here before I really start dream typing...

Edit: okay, one more thing since Ambience posted again.

Listen, I did give some advice in my post, even though I was a little smacktalkie about your vid. Stuff like that is way too random to nail down very much on specifics. I think my post is about as good as I can offer you on the fly, because it's hard enough trying to explain how Flaming Lips or Skrillex or The Beatles did a particular song. Wildly experimental tracks are... well, wildly experimental, which means they try some crazy sh... stuff, and see what they like and what fits the track. Read my post above. And that's the best I can give you in my current sleep deprived state.

Well, one more thing. Stuff like this, built with little collage pieces, suggests a melody more than it actually makes one, and that is a tricky act.

By the way MrTechno, I love you man! You and your stuff rock.
#17
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Learn the rules (all of them) before you can break them. Books are a good place to start.
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#18
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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#19
27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
Come on guys lol
Don't be that guy.

In fact, this shows why you are not getting anywhere: you have no patience. Which is underscored by:

Quote:
I experiment a lot but i hit dead ends extremely quick lol
Yeah, what do you expect?

This is not a video game. You never finish levels with this. This is not "hit bad guy 30 times and get an achievement" just for doing repetitive tasks or hitting buttons at the right time. It's not a slot machine where you keep putting coins in to eventually hit the jackpot. There is no easy way, and there's no guaranteed return. There are no tricks - every single-line summary you read of what someone invented had thousands of dead ends, all interesting, all worth exploring, just not suitable at that moment at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
WHERE THE FCK ARE THEY GETTING THESE WEIRD SOUND?
Get your own weird sounds. Buy a field recorder and a microphone, Zoom H4Ns are cheap. Go modular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
All i asked guys was some guidance and a direction to start in.
You got a shitload of guidance, and guess what: it's summarized as "shitloads of work".

You haven't posted your gearlist (or your DAW), so we can't even give you advice on how to effectively use what you already have.
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#20
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
All i asked guys was some guidance and a direction to start in.

I clearly stated i know I will not be able to understand these productions and how they were made through the forums.
Ok, and this is the internet, so some people will react a little harshly.

When doing this type of thread, however, it might help to indicate what you already bring to the table instead of asking how to go from zero to sixty without putting your foot on the gas.

Imagine if you put up an ad at your local music shop that said:

"Looking to start a band. No instruments played or other talents. Just a strong desire to rock."

How many responses do you think you'd get? This is kind of the same sort of deal. You're saying you want direction on how to achieve a specific musical style, with no mention of what you play or currently know how to do.

So some of us may jump to the conclusion that you're asking us to tell you what magical combination of gear and software will allow you to emulate your favorite artists without any existing skill, talent, or effort. Most of us here have accomplished what we've done musically with at least a bit of skill, talent, or effort. (usually at least two of those!)

Furthermore I was a little annoyed that you mentioned Radiohead, then posted that video as if they're even in the same galaxy!
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#21
27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
a push in the right direction so I can get started.
This is just my opinion, and other will disagree, but there is no "right" direction. Instead of trying to replicate that music, just make any music, make your music, be original. There's no guide book or manual on how to produce (well there are tutorials for specific production techniques), but ultimately you'll have to come up with your own style.

Instead of trying to understand how a whole genre of music is made, dig down deeper and try to figure out specifics one by one (this will take years, and in theory should never "end"). For example take a week and focus on one thing only, like how to EQ a kick drum, then move on step by step until you have a decent number of tools in your tool belt. Then free your mind and use these tools to make original music.

In summary, don't try to reproduce genres or songs, only try to reproduce certain techniques so that you have them in your set of tools so that when you're being creative you don't have to stress about how to accomplish certain technical tasks.

So like everyone said, there are no shortcuts or quick guides, you just have to learn as much as you can about very specific things and keep building up your arsenal of tools. At the same time work on your creative side and make your own music without trying to copy others. Your music will implicitly contain elements of music you listen to, so there's no need to explicitly try to reproduce what others do.

Just my 0.02$

Good luck, stay positive, be humble and very patient, and be ready to roll your sleeves up, study a lot and be prepared to fail along the way.
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Ambience
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27th December 2012
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Im in pro tools 10

I got komplete 8 and omnisphere and I am getting a Virus ti 2 desktop some time next week.
#23
27th December 2012
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It's about forging ahead on ideas you have not heard before, which is the hardes thing to do because you have no comparison to know it it's good or not...

BUT, that's what makes the artists you reference the artists they are... they have a belief that they are creating something good (or hell, who knows, maybe they just forge ahead).

Thing is, we are all guilty of "comparison" to tell us if an idea is good or not... THIS is the area we can't do that.

Just go for it, you can do it!

-andrews
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#24
27th December 2012
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This thread is full of rock solid advice. I was pretty tuckered last night because I forgot the line I've been playing harp on for two weeks straight.

Be yourself. Be different from everyone else, at least in some way. Be authentic. Be passionate in your music. Do what you want.

As for experimenting, no one can tell you how to be a mad audio scientist. I gave a handful of examples up above. But no one can tell you whether filtering drums or using EQ would sound better. You have to play with each to learn what results. And compression on both? Maybe the drums are already mashed hard and a comp will just flatline the life out of them. Your ears are the best guide on that, well, or a friend with some experience. But take advice as advice, not rules. Experience means that someone staked out their own rules they follow. Your job is to stake out your own territory and technique and sound, and you can only figure that out on your own.

The only real rule is, be you, figure out what you do best, then turn your stuff on and make magic happen.
#25
27th December 2012
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Since you mentioned Pink Floyd, you might be surprised that they worked for quite a while with nothing but guitar, bass, drums and old school keyboards...Farfisa and Hammond organs, Wurlitzer piano...because synths weren't readily available. They used distortion effects, tape delay and tape loops, Leslie speakers, stuff that every DAW has plugins for.

At heart Floyd are still a rock band, the electronic elements are just window dressing on their songs. The same could be said of Radiohead, Portishead takes more of a hip-hop approach to their stuff so there's a lot of sampling in use.

A lot of early electronic music was done with organs and electric pianos run through effects devices. Hand me a Casiotone, a phaser and a delay and I could crank out that sort of thing all day long.

So start out with the traditional rock elements and mess around with effects when mixing.
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#26
27th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambience View Post
Im in pro tools 10

I got komplete 8 and omnisphere and I am getting a Virus ti 2 desktop some time next week.
Now we're getting somewhere!

Drums: it's not unusual just to y'know, hire an actual drummer and let them record a few loops and licks, at different room settings or tunings for the drum. Then you take those, and cut out the interesting parts and change the pitch. In the loop a cymbal and snare may be played at the same time - so you take that as a single drum hit. Don't think in terms of traditional drum kits where you only have a single snare; here the snare happens to hit at the same time as the cymbal and bass, so you EQ out the kick so that it sounds more snare-ish, and use that. The amen break has this snare + cymbal + kick, and it's been used countless of times in drum 'n bass records; in that way, nothing new happens here.

None of the sound effects you hear here are modulated - what happens is that you sample a short fragment and then let it loop. When you're working on sample libraries you try to get a seamless loop; here, the seam is left in intentionally (the "click" effect).

Vocals: this is interesting. What happens is that the formants are changed. Lots of voice effects (TC Helicon VoiceLive etc.) have a setting labeled "gender" - that's probably exactly what's being moved from "male" to "female" and back again, slowly. So, instead of leaving it in one position (as any regular vanilla producer would do), it's being moved on purpose here. This is not according to standard studio practice; traditionalists would just insist on getting someone who has proper pitch instead of someone who thinks "middle C" changes several hundred cents every hour based on the weather patterns in the Czech republic or something.

When you slow down vocals, the character changes; you don't suddenly sound like a movie trailer guy no matter what you try. This is because the movie trailer dude's voice has different formants. But - formants are merely a filter, so you can re-apply that filtering to your own voice if you wanted to.

So those are some examples of unconventional usage of musical elements; instead of isolating drums, getting all of it; instead of not messing with the voice effects, definitely messing with it; instead of seamlessly looping samples, leaving the seam in. Still, all of this is pretty vanilla in the grand scheme of things; many more wicked tricks can be dreamt of. Now - Komplete is pretty "clean", and a Virus doesn't have that much dirt either. I recommend you start recording stuff; even your kitchen should yield enough sonic material; if not to use outright, then at least to layer with drum samples in Komplete so you get something less ordinary.

But that was a nice track, so thanks for posting that, at least.
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#27
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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Make a tune, or part of a tune, that approximates the style as best you can. Then listen some more, and figure out how yours sounds different. Then try to make it sound a bit closer. I suspect you'll have trouble just sitting down and writing something that sounds awesome and exactly what you want. But you can definitely sit down and write something that's yours, then use your ears and creativity to take it a bit closer to where you want to go.

As for weird sounds, two things I know of are a) looping really tiny parts of samples and b) modulating the f*ck out of stuff. Throw something in a sampler, filter it, drive the filter hard, modulate it with an audio rate LFO, have another LFO that modulates the first LFO's speed, and map some MIDI knobs to things like filter cutoff LFO speed. You'll end up with all kinds of weird shit that is nothing like the original sample Then chop it up and sequence (and maybe do it all over again??)
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#28
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
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There's already some good advice in here, although the basic truth behind all of it lies with the folks who are saying that it takes time and effort to achieve any of this. There is no magic box or technology that will do it for you. Even if you had the budget to duplicate the gear that those artists have, you won't be able to achieve the same sounds and the same music - it's a combination of the whole thing from the writing, to the arranging, to the sound design, to the performance, to the tracking, editing and mixing and everything else.

With that in mind, one of the best things that you can do is just to listen and analyse. Play the tracks over and over again. Find out something about the gear that was used (if you can) and then try to dissect what you're hearing. What is happening and when? What kind of sound is that? What instrument is that? What is catching your ear at any given moment? And what is going on behind the ear-catching part? What kind of effects are being applied and where? And so on and so forth.

It can be useful to find alternative versions of songs too. Particularly if you can find a simplified, stripped-down version of something. That can be a great way to concentrate on the actual music, rather than the specific sounds or the construction of a complex arrangement. But any alternative version can be useful in helping you to look a little deeper inside a song. A good example is something like Depeche Mode's Personal Jesus - listen to the original, then listen to Marilyn Manson's version, then listen to Johnny Cash's American Recordings version. The same song, but approached three distinctly different ways. (And all good too, although that's just my opinion there.)

After that, it's a case of using your gear, practising, practising and practising some more. Write stuff. Muck about with stuff. Try to make a specific sort of sound. Or just play with sounds until you find something that you want to include in a song and see what you can build around it. Over time, you will develop your own style that will reflect your influences. But develop your own style, don't just slavishly copy.

Oh, and first and foremost, above all, have fun on the journey. Because it will take you the rest of your life and you'll still be learning at the end. It's kind of like watching the same film over and over again - doesn't matter how many times you've seen it, there's almost always something new to find.
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#29
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianww View Post
There's already some good advice in here, although the basic truth behind all of it lies with the folks who are saying that it takes time and effort to achieve any of this. There is no magic box or technology that will do it for you. Even if you had the budget to duplicate the gear that those artists have, you won't be able to achieve the same sounds and the same music - it's a combination of the whole thing from the writing, to the arranging, to the sound design, to the performance, to the tracking, editing and mixing and everything else.

With that in mind, one of the best things that you can do is just to listen and analyse. Play the tracks over and over again. Find out something about the gear that was used (if you can) and then try to dissect what you're hearing. What is happening and when? What kind of sound is that? What instrument is that? What is catching your ear at any given moment? And what is going on behind the ear-catching part? What kind of effects are being applied and where? And so on and so forth.

It can be useful to find alternative versions of songs too. Particularly if you can find a simplified, stripped-down version of something. That can be a great way to concentrate on the actual music, rather than the specific sounds or the construction of a complex arrangement. But any alternative version can be useful in helping you to look a little deeper inside a song. A good example is something like Depeche Mode's Personal Jesus - listen to the original, then listen to Marilyn Manson's version, then listen to Johnny Cash's American Recordings version. The same song, but approached three distinctly different ways. (And all good too, although that's just my opinion there.)

After that, it's a case of using your gear, practising, practising and practising some more. Write stuff. Muck about with stuff. Try to make a specific sort of sound. Or just play with sounds until you find something that you want to include in a song and see what you can build around it. Over time, you will develop your own style that will reflect your influences. But develop your own style, don't just slavishly copy.

Oh, and first and foremost, above all, have fun on the journey. Because it will take you the rest of your life and you'll still be learning at the end. It's kind of like watching the same film over and over again - doesn't matter how many times you've seen it, there's almost always something new to find.
Nicely said.
#30
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #30
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Learn songwriting, sampling and synthesis. Don't know why no one else could come up with this secret shit to tell you.
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