Headphones for producing EDM
#31
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #31
Thanks, I wasn't sure if I was missing something. Maybe I still am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
Because they don't understand that headphones for mixing are not the same as headphones for listening.

@OP: Sony MDR's or those ATH M-50's. Don't pay more than $150 for headphones--it's not like fancier models overcome the inherent flaws of mixing on cans.
#32
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
@OP: Sony MDR's or those ATH M-50's. Don't pay more than $150 for headphones--it's not like fancier models overcome the inherent flaws of mixing on cans.
this is not true, pricier open cans are definitely better for mixing

just look through all the threads in the subject, most praise goes to the akg k701/k702's or the senn hd650

also more recently there's been a lot a buzz about the senn momentum, I really want to check those out
#33
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #33
Gear maniac
 
Nigel99's Avatar
 

After much research I picked up a pair of beyerdynamic DT880 pro 600 ohm phones and am really happy with them for mixing duties.

Contrary to the previous post, I get good mixes out if them as the bass is not hyped at all. If anything it is just a touch subdued resulting in a fractionally bass heavy mix.

I use an headphone amp with them which I think is pretty necessary.
#34
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #34
wasn't talking about your headphones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel99 View Post
After much research I picked up a pair of beyerdynamic DT880 pro 600 ohm phones and am really happy with them for mixing duties.

Contrary to the previous post, I get good mixes out if them as the bass is not hyped at all. If anything it is just a touch subdued resulting in a fractionally bass heavy mix.

I use an headphone amp with them which I think is pretty necessary.
mir
#35
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #35
mir
Gear nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic View Post
Question: if you get a pair of headphones that have more bass, doesn't that mean that your mixes will come out thinner with less bass, since you aren't mixing in as much bass as you think you are?

The reason I ask is because I use the AKG 702 and like them precisely because they don't overhype the bass while mixing. Seems like people want more bass though, but why?
I think there's a difference between bass boost (ie. hyped bass) and bass extension (ie. bass goes deeper). If I can compare K702 vs. HD600, both cans do have neutral bass response, but to my ears, HD600 goes/extends deeper than K702. So I perceive this as more bass, but only because I'm hearing more of the low end. The outcome is better translation and less guessing for me.
Quote
1
#36
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Altitude909's Avatar
 

Headphones for mixing is an oxymoron. By definition, human hearing does not work that way. There is never a natural state where your right ear hears something that your left ear doesn't other than wearing headphones so if you expect to get mixes that have a correct stereo field on cans alone, I wish you the best
#37
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #37
Lives for gear
 
kacperson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
Headphones for mixing is an oxymoron. By definition, human hearing does not work that way. There is never a natural state where your right ear hears something that your left ear doesn't other than wearing headphones so if you expect to get mixes that have a correct stereo field on cans alone, I wish you the best
sir,it is totally possible...matter of getting used to it and understanding certain dangers of such mixing,like the one you mentioned. By saying this,i finished recently one track made 100000% on cans from first to last sound and mixed it,got it mastered and it gonna be officially released ,i only wait to finish rest of material for ep.


And while i am still just a relatively nooby guy , there are pros that do it,and especially take a look to productions of guy named Soundprank. But only tracks at least 1 year old,because later he started to use monitors too



he is all headphones too ,here are 2 freebies to download as free tracks https://soundcloud.com/jeremyolander...rack-giveaway/
#38
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Altitude909's Avatar
 

Sure it's possible, you can teach yourself to drive a car only backwards too but what's the point
TJP
#39
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #39
TJP
Gear nut
 
TJP's Avatar
 

Ive got the ath-m50s and never used them in the studio... only for dj/live situation and with this aplication i really love them. Mutch more then the sennheiser... i know they look nice, but i was never convinced by the sound. Have to try them out in the studio, cause i only use my dynaudio bm12s and sometimes i got translation problems in the low/bass area. Maybe its my room... i dont know but i feel, that the bms kinda trick me in the low/bass area... often ive got too much bass and sometimes even worst a bassresonance... this is really annoying. Maybe ill just use the m50 more often now!
#40
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #40
Lives for gear
 
kacperson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
Sure it's possible, you can teach yourself to drive a car only backwards too but what's the point
i dont get it dude. i gave you examples, quite many famous producers do it totally in cans,releasing quality tracks that blast people in clubs without a problem and yet you call it driving car backwards.

it is often much more convenient too in addition. I dont belive mix will be as polished as on monitors this way,but it works and gets the job done with a proper final outcome,which is a good sounding track .
#41
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #41
Gear nut
 

I'm using the shure srh1840 since a few months. For me it is a step up in terms of the clarity I hear in the bass and mid region, when comparing to the akg k240 that I was using before.
#42
29th December 2012
Old 29th December 2012
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Every professional engineer I know tells me not to mix in headphones. The flaws of mixing in any headphone, even if it's a $1000 pair handmade in germany, make your job that much harder than using even mediocre monitors. Producing is not mixing.

Though admittedly, the world of EDM has its own rules, so blast me as you will.
#43
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
Headphones for mixing is an oxymoron. By definition, human hearing does not work that way. There is never a natural state where your right ear hears something that your left ear doesn't other than wearing headphones so if you expect to get mixes that have a correct stereo field on cans alone, I wish you the best
Listening to monitors in an acoustically treated room isn't a natural state either.
But that's the best known way to create a mix that translates well onto other sound systems.
For many people having that luxury isn't possible, so a good balanced set of headphones is the next best option.
While it isn't ideal, with practice you can get some great results mixing on headphones. And that begins with getting a suitable set of cans, which is what this thread is all about.
Quote
1
#44
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #44
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel99 View Post
After much research I picked up a pair of beyerdynamic DT880 pro 600 ohm phones and am really happy with them for mixing duties.

Contrary to the previous post, I get good mixes out if them as the bass is not hyped at all. If anything it is just a touch subdued resulting in a fractionally bass heavy mix.

I use an headphone amp with them which I think is pretty necessary.
Mind telling me what amp you are using? Do you use a preamp to plug into your interface or is it a whole separate sound card?
#45
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Altitude909's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrightSide View Post
Listening to monitors in an acoustically treated room isn't a natural state either.
But that's the best known way to create a mix that translates well onto other sound systems.
For many people having that luxury isn't possible, so a good balanced set of headphones is the next best option.
While it isn't ideal, with practice you can get some great results mixing on headphones. And that begins with getting a suitable set of cans, which is what this thread is all about.
I disagree, mixing on ANY speakers is better than cans, treated room or not. It has nothing to do with "balanced" sound or bass response, you can learn the acoustics of a room and compensate for any hype in frequencies. Headphones HEAVILY distort the stereo field, maybe some Kung Fu mix masters can magically translate stereo fields from cans into real world speakers but mixing in cans from the ground up is straight up wrong. One ear can ALWAYS hear the same thing the other ear does. Thats why there is a Doppler effect/directionality to our hearing, your brain translates the difference in volume from one ear to the other and then places that sound in a "locatoin" that you can relate to. When wearing headphones, you are defeating that natural effect since one ear is completely isolated for the other, you can aproximate it on cans by panning sounds but it will never be right since you are taking the natural "bleed" you get from left to right ear out of the equation. Try it yourself, make a simple mono drum track and add something panned hard right, listen to it through monitors and headphones and tell me it sounds the same. Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking headphones in general and I use cans more than my speakers for tracking and detailed sound editing but never for mixing in stereo. It may not be a huge difference but take that mix to a mastering house and they will be able to tell you mixed on cans in 10 seconds.

If this thread is about "producing" anything then mixing is the last stage and you might as well do it right.
#46
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #46
Lives for gear
 
AudioRadar's Avatar
 

I agree, stuff on on headphones usually sounds dodgy compared to a speaker mix.
#47
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #47
Lives for gear
 
kacperson's Avatar
Thats why it is clutch to have a reference track . And play it from time to time. Track you know throughout and want to achieve simillar results. This helps to deal with some dangers.Additionally to your ears ,it is also advised to use analyzers of stereo field etc ,when you sum it up and have experience you can get really close to speaker mix quality
Quote
1
#48
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #48
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I disagree, mixing on ANY speakers is better than cans, treated room or not. It has nothing to do with "balanced" sound or bass response, you can learn the acoustics of a room and compensate for any hype in frequencies. Headphones HEAVILY distort the stereo field, maybe some Kung Fu mix masters can magically translate stereo fields from cans into real world speakers but mixing in cans from the ground up is straight up wrong. One ear can ALWAYS hear the same thing the other ear does. Thats why there is a Doppler effect/directionality to our hearing, your brain translates the difference in volume from one ear to the other and then places that sound in a "locatoin" that you can relate to. When wearing headphones, you are defeating that natural effect since one ear is completely isolated for the other, you can aproximate it on cans by panning sounds but it will never be right since you are taking the natural "bleed" you get from left to right ear out of the equation. Try it yourself, make a simple mono drum track and add something panned hard right, listen to it through monitors and headphones and tell me it sounds the same. Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking headphones in general and I use cans more than my speakers for tracking and detailed sound editing but never for mixing in stereo. It may not be a huge difference but take that mix to a mastering house and they will be able to tell you mixed on cans in 10 seconds.

If this thread is about "producing" anything then mixing is the last stage and you might as well do it right.
This is a subject we simply disagree on.
You say that headphones distort the stereo field, I say they enhance it. This is my experience anyway.
I've got a high end set of Grado's and valve headphone amp. The soundstage is better than any pair of speakers I have ever heard. And I'm also a hifi collector, so I have heard a few.

I have found that if a mix sounds good on headphones, it will also sound good on speakers. And vica versa.
Quote
1
#49
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #49
don't listen to the naysayers, mixing on headphones works for a lot of people and there's no shame on it

if it weren't for headphones, what would everyone without the space for a properly set up studio would do? what about those who can't afford them?

I live in an apartment where my little Focal XS 2.1 get me in trouble.. could you imagine proper monitors??

my headphones pay the bills and have gotten me popular enough to be considered an "up-and-comer"
Quote
2
#50
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #50
Gear maniac
 
Lotus Voltage's Avatar
 

I use Audio Technica ATH-M50's and I'm really happy with them. I use them for making my own music and also listening to CDs, they sound great.
#51
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #51
Lives for gear
 
kacperson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
don't listen to the naysayers, mixing on headphones works for a lot of people and there's no shame on it

if it weren't for headphones, what would everyone without the space for a properly set up studio would do? what about those who can't afford them?

I live in an apartment where my little Focal XS 2.1 get me in trouble.. could you imagine proper monitors??

my headphones pay the bills and have gotten me popular enough to be considered an "up-and-comer"
exactly mate ,thumbs up
Quote
1
#52
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #52
I agree with what you say here, but if your room is jacking up the bass, there will be a lot of things that you simply cannot hear, because it's being covered up. That's a situation where you need both headphones and monitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I disagree, mixing on ANY speakers is better than cans, treated room or not. It has nothing to do with "balanced" sound or bass response, you can learn the acoustics of a room and compensate for any hype in frequencies. Headphones HEAVILY distort the stereo field, maybe some Kung Fu mix masters can magically translate stereo fields from cans into real world speakers but mixing in cans from the ground up is straight up wrong. One ear can ALWAYS hear the same thing the other ear does. Thats why there is a Doppler effect/directionality to our hearing, your brain translates the difference in volume from one ear to the other and then places that sound in a "locatoin" that you can relate to. When wearing headphones, you are defeating that natural effect since one ear is completely isolated for the other, you can aproximate it on cans by panning sounds but it will never be right since you are taking the natural "bleed" you get from left to right ear out of the equation. Try it yourself, make a simple mono drum track and add something panned hard right, listen to it through monitors and headphones and tell me it sounds the same. Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking headphones in general and I use cans more than my speakers for tracking and detailed sound editing but never for mixing in stereo. It may not be a huge difference but take that mix to a mastering house and they will be able to tell you mixed on cans in 10 seconds.

If this thread is about "producing" anything then mixing is the last stage and you might as well do it right.
#53
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #53
Lives for gear
 

some guys may mix since 10 years or more on monitors and wonder why their first headphone mix is screwed.. headphone sux !
you have to learn to mix on cans.. good headphone are the futur of monitoring for home studio, electronic producers. (that futur is already today for many producers)
#54
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #54
I like the Beyerdynamic DT770 for EDM. They have a hyped bottom end and giving some very good idea how it will sound if people using some bass boost/loudness effect.
But I use them more for controlling the spatiality. Mixing only with this headphones needs some experience. I will not say it's impossible but I'm more familiar with using monitors and only for some tasks headphones.
#55
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #55
How can you hear all the other stuff that is going on when the bass is hyped? Just wondering because I have always had big problems when the bass is hyped, because it only sounds good on that system that it was mixed on... On everything else, it sound way higher with no bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind View Post
I like the Beyerdynamic DT770 for EDM. They have a hyped bottom end and giving some very good idea how it will sound if people using some bass boost/loudness effect.
But I use them more for controlling the spatiality. Mixing only with this headphones needs some experience. I will not say it's impossible but I'm more familiar with using monitors and only for some tasks headphones.
#56
30th December 2012
Old 30th December 2012
  #56
Gear maniac
 
Nigel99's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic View Post
wasn't talking about your headphones
Not your post mate, they were mentioned earlier
Quote
1
#57
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #57
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind View Post
I like the Beyerdynamic DT770 for EDM. They have a hyped bottom end and giving some very good idea how it will sound if people using some bass boost/loudness effect.
That's exactly why I don't like them. Too boomy. It's hard to judge bass with those. The only cool thing about those is that you can throw them on to see if your mix is too bass heavy. That's about it.

Just my two cents though. Only my opinion
#58
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #58
Lives for gear
 
natefrogg's Avatar
 

was gifted some ah m40fs over holiday, these are ok but as others mentioned the bass seems off like it's boosting it a bit, this made me want to eq some low end out which sounded great on the cans, i go to play in my car and there's way too much boomy bass going on, i go to play on the crap work computer speakers that do have a sub and the bass kick sounds like there's zero low end, man i wish i had somewhere to use the decent real monitors again but that's just not in my cards right now, pretty frustrating to say the least, maybe i'll pickup a pair of the ath m50s next and give those a try...just frustrated and wanted to vent, seemed like an ok place to do so </vent>
#59
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #59
Gear addict
 
waveform:blue's Avatar
 

I use ATH-M40s to look for flaws such as distortion. They really have a lot of detail. Listening to your efforts through these is a humbling experience as they reveal every..single...flaw.

However, I find they also tend to exaggerate transients. A great example is a patch I built of a telephone ring. It was perfect in the cans, yet the "ding-ding-ding" sounded more like "thing-thing-thing" on my dbx speakers. I wound up cranking up the LFO level to get it right.

The 40s also have real deep bass response all the way down to 5 Hertz. This has helped me find flaws in "glitch" patches I make on my 80s keyboard. I didn't quite hear, but felt unwanted subsonics in some of them. They may not be audible on a set of speakers, yet they can still mess up a woofer much like a warped turntable without a rumble filter.
Quote
1
#60
4th January 2013
Old 4th January 2013
  #60
Gear addict
 
waveform:blue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by natefrogg View Post
was gifted some ah m40fs over holiday, these are ok but as others mentioned the bass seems off like it's boosting it a bit, this made me want to eq some low end out which sounded great on the cans, i go to play in my car and there's way too much boomy bass going on, i go to play on the crap work computer speakers that do have a sub and the bass kick sounds like there's zero low end, man i wish i had somewhere to use the decent real monitors again but that's just not in my cards right now, pretty frustrating to say the least, maybe i'll pickup a pair of the ath m50s next and give those a try...just frustrated and wanted to vent, seemed like an ok place to do so </vent>
If you don't like the bass...try closing off the vent holes on the sides. A bit of cotton stuffed into the holes on the back of each can will tame the low-end response.
Quote
1
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Meg Lee Chin / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
168
Soundproof / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
15
murrayhill / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
25
bmsander / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
6
Ted Nightshade / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
6

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.