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wasn't electronic music supposed to be about being innovative and different?
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ohmicide
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5th December 2012
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wasn't electronic music supposed to be about being innovative and different?

I don't understand why so many are stuck in the past, using whatever classic analog synth because that's how they're supposed to sound, using whatever classic technique because that's how it has to be done, hating software, etc.

whatever happened to being different and innovative, trying crazy things, coming up with new sounds

nothing's going to move forward if everyone's sitting around trying to recreate that same 80's lead or that Black Eyed Peas kick drum, relying on mastering engineers to polish off their work, spending thousands of dollars on gear that doesn't really make enough of a difference to justify the price

come on guys, we're supposed to be innovators, not re-creators
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I mean, I agree with you, but not the part about analog.
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I use both hardware and software. As far as everyone sounding the same these days? I think software has a lot to do with that. Not because it is software but because everyone has easy access to the same sounds, for example Massive, FM8, etc. Vsts with thousands of presets are also a problem.

I just finished an album that was a mixture of hardware analog and digital synths and software (mostly samplers)
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Well, there's dubstep, lol.
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to the op: Wasnt you the guy thar spoke up for vengance loop construction kits and preset use ? sorry when i mix you up..But in case that was you...

do you really think that using a modern vst preset makes you more of a creator than tweaking a classical synth?

beeing inovative is actually really missing in the younger generation..mostly they do styles that are older than themself.. what is a retro attitude..and with a retro attitude you will get retro sounds out of a retro synth..

but i dont have problems to get strange new sounds out of a juno 106 still...and thats about the simplest of the classical synths.. however..i am on the brink of circuit bending here when i enjoy faked bbd chips and the sick sounds they produce...

anyway..dont blame the tool and especially not the instrument when people dont get anything new from it.

just from the direct acces and strong initial sound the old synths are still one of the best choices to do fresh sounds.. you just need to combine and treat them well..but that applies to any plug in too..only monsters like reaktor or max are capabel of reaching new grounds on them own really..
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ohmicide
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5th December 2012
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Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
wasnt you the guy thar spoke up for vengance loop construction kits and preset use ?

do you really think that using a modern vst preset makes you more of a creator than tweaking a classical synth?
you must be mistaking, I am completely against construction kits and presets


also, I think you're missing the point, my point is that being stuck on vintage subtractive synthesis isn't exactly what I would call being innovative
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
I don't understand why so many are stuck in the past, using whatever classic analog synth because that's how they're supposed to sound, using whatever classic technique because that's how it has to be done, hating software, etc.

whatever happened to being different and innovative, trying crazy things, coming up with new sounds

nothing's going to move forward if everyone's sitting around trying to recreate that same 80's lead or that Black Eyed Peas kick drum, relying on mastering engineers to polish off their work, spending thousands of dollars on gear that doesn't really make enough of a difference to justify the price

come on guys, we're supposed to be innovators, not re-creators
My Mpressor makes a difference but you sound like you are speaking for the rest of us.
Who cares what others do right?
And using an old vintage does not mean you cannot be innovative. I would most certainly rather be innovative with a hardware analoge then a software synth any day of the week.
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Originally Posted by MrTechno View Post
I would most certainly rather be innovative with a hardware analoge then a software synth any day of the week.
this is what I don't understand

there is so much more in the world of synthesis, why would you choose hardware analog subtractive over additive, fm, phase, granular, wavetable, etc.?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
you must be mistaking, I am completely against construction kits and presets


also, I think you're missing the point, my point is that being stuck on vintage subtractive synthesis isn't exactly what I would call being innovative
ok, sorry.. but i am not missing the point because my modular systems are since the late 90's an endless source of sounds.. just some classical synths with a fixed architeczure are a bit limited..but them can be easily modded to play with you modular system... so its not the subtractive sythesis that leads to generic results.. thats the users. you can do allmost any sound thinkable with the aid of analog and digital synth modules..
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Modular synthesis is where the innovation is at these days. Who would have thought that origins of synthesis would still be innovating decades after they were invented?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
ok, sorry.. but i am not missing the point because my modular systems are since the late 90's an endless source of sounds.. just some classical synths with a fixed architeczure are a bit limited..but them can be easily modded to play with you modular system... so its not the subtractive sythesis that leads to generic results.. thats the users. you can do allmost any sound thinkable with the aid of analog and digital synth modules..
nothing wrong with modular, it goes beyond simple subtractive synthesis

I'm mostly speaking about the classic fixed architecture synths
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
this is what I don't understand

there is so much more in the world of synthesis, why would you choose hardware analog subtractive over additive, fm, phase, granular, wavetable, etc.?
the direct access leads to quicker results that better reflect your will.. so when your will is to have a fresh sound you get there easier with direct access.. so old synths with real knobs still shine and most new synths get knobs again.. because thats an userinterface that allways will be superior to menu diving...and just more expensive but not old fashioned...
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Originally Posted by choond View Post
Well, there's dubstep, lol.
But OP doesn't like it so....it's like it never happened
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But OP doesn't like it so....it's like it never happened
who said I don't like Dubstep?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
...dont blame the tool and especially not the instrument when people dont get anything new from it...
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I've got some futuristic sounds out of my JX-3P before. It's the mindset of the user. Anyway, it's not the sound that makes it innovative but how it is used.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
nothing wrong with modular, it goes beyond simple subtractive synthesis

I'm mostly speaking about the classic fixed architecture synths
than you should say that.. these are maybe a bit known in theire sonic signature.. but was not so long ago bargain choices in relation to some plug ins...

i often combine my juno 106 with my nordmodulat.. analog warmth and digital details and modulations combined give strong sounds..

and i am quicker with the nord modular than with reaktor..and thats just because it mimics an analog workflow better..

wonder how max turns out.. think i need to learn that too now since i bought it with the ableton upgrade...hope its not another month eating trap..

another point that speaks for classical synths..you get your head around them in no time while modern software can eat month...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
who said I don't like Dubstep?
Do you like it, or at least admire how innovative these kids can be with vst's?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
another point that speaks for classical synths..you get your head around them in no time while modern software can eat month...
so you can learn an FM7 or a Waldorf Wave in no time? :p


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Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
Do you like it, or at least admire how innovative these kids can be with vst's?
you could say I am one of those "kids"
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Well....Ohmicide.. a good question indeed. But why not leave of the word "electronic" possibly. Becasue in the end...we are talking about music....And yes... when you remove that caveat,,, then anything goes.. The narrower that we close the lens,, the more it becomes all about racing stripes. So...I think that you have really touched on something here.....Music isn't about analog....digital....or acoustic....it's about creativity....expression, and art. You can do that with a pastel,,,some oil paint...water colors....or sound and music. You can do ti with an exceptional plate of fodd also. a creative logo,, or a brilliant invention.... Whatever inspires you into producing an exceptional result..... OK...here's the common denominator(JMHO)....passion for the idea mixed with tenacity and a desire to perfect.......The brush isn't the deciding factor
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I think it's more about the sound that analog gives. Analog synths are somewhat coming back with options that allow you to be innovative. It sounds like you're hating on analog.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Modular synthesis is where the innovation is at these days. Who would have thought that origins of synthesis would still be innovating decades after they were invented?
Can you post an innovative track made with a modular? Not saying that you're wrong, it's just that almost every time I hear a track made with a modular, it's just a long drone with someone turning the knobs to change the parameters of the sound while the same note plays for several minutes. I don't think I've ever (knowingly) heard a really mindblowing track created with just a modular.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
I don't understand why so many are stuck in the past, using whatever classic analog synth because that's how they're supposed to sound, using whatever classic technique because that's how it has to be done, hating software, etc.

whatever happened to being different and innovative, trying crazy things, coming up with new sounds

nothing's going to move forward if everyone's sitting around trying to recreate that same 80's lead or that Black Eyed Peas kick drum, relying on mastering engineers to polish off their work, spending thousands of dollars on gear that doesn't really make enough of a difference to justify the price

come on guys, we're supposed to be innovators, not re-creators
I agree with your central message -- a call to be more creative. But creativity can manifest itself in many ways and is not limited to innovation. In terms of making music some prefer "the end justifies the means" whereas I prefer "the means justify the end". In other words, I'm all about process -- the creative process.

For me, making electronic music is not about innovation: it's about personal exploration and discovery. And simply because others before me have left no stone unturned and exhausted the palette of "innovative sounds" coming from an old analog synth does not mean I should abandon that instrument and look elsewhere. To do so would be missing out on a beautiful journey.

In other words: no friggin' way I'm going to chunk out my Jupiter-4 simply because "it's all been done before". I really don't care if it's all been done before. Have I done it all before? Nope.

My feeling is that if one is open and honest and in touch with "the inner muse" there is always the potential for "unconscious innovation".

Yes. That's it: unconscious innovation. I find TRYING to be innovative self-defeating. It's when I just let things happen naturally that I actually discover something unique: my own voice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
this is what I don't understand

there is so much more in the world of synthesis, why would you choose hardware analog subtractive over additive, fm, phase, granular, wavetable, etc.?
Is it okay if I prefer a hardware digital synth over a vst??
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I think people would be better off trying to be innovative with their compositions rather than just looking for an innovative synth sound.
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Is it okay if I prefer a hardware digital synth over a vst??
I mean, shit, I'd die for a Virus TI haha
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so you can learn an FM7 or a Waldorf Wave in no time? :p

sure.. in realtion to max they are easy..
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sure.. in realtion to max they are easy..
kinda comparing apples to oranges here.. a more accurace comparison would be to FM8 and Massive

if you look at it that way, it'd be much easier to start getting the hang of FM8 than and actual FM7

and Massive almost modular if you consider all the routing capabilities, try doing that with a hardware wavetable synth.. you'd even have a much harder time with a Virus TI unless you're using the software editor plug-in
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
I think people would be better off trying to be innovative with their compositions rather than just looking for an innovative synth sound.
that comes hand in hand..a sound shows you how it wants to be used.. therefore classical or preset sounds rarely lead to new ideas...
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Ohmicide...you are great at what you do....don't be afraid to venture far beyond that spectrum...When i see those Sound Cloud waveforms like something coming from the Smartie factory I try to relate.
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