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matia
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4th December 2012
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Sell Juno 60 towards Prophet 5

Hello mates. As an owner of a lot of vintage analogue I got a question that I've wanted some feedback on. I'm debating getting rid of some gear and picking up a Prophet 5. I'm after the latest rev with midi. Now here's the thing. To do this I would have to sell my Juno 60 and perhaps my Sequential Circuits Pro One. I currently have an OB8, Jupiter 8, as well as access to a Jupiter 6 and a Prophet 08 (mostly for live use but I really like it for certain sounds too). I have a couple of other mono's and a modular system as well (Serge) but for some odd reason the Prophet 5 bug has bit me a little bit. Now the Juno means a lot to me. I did a track that go my band signed with it and it's a joy to play especially the rock solid arp and I would be definitely missing it. Though the Jupiter 8 has an arp, this one has some serious issues clocking correctly to the 808 and the Juno is just solid. The OB8 has a really really interesting arp but it doesn't do the Juno bass (solid ...). I'm just curious would I be missing the Juno 60 too much and especially the Pro One if I sprung for a Prophet 5.

thanks for any feedback from owners of similar gear :-)

-matia
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I understand the yearning for a P5 but loosing the J60 is quite a high price to pay...I could understand the P1 because a P5 is similar...I have an OB8 and know using it with arp is not the same as the pluck you can get from a J60...

Maybe if you do sell the J60 you could mitigate the loss by buying an outboard chorus unit and fixing the trigger on the JP8 with a service (if its possible)... JP8 + chorus should give although different - as good as J60?

From what you say might be a better idea to save some money rather than sell the Juno. Then down the line if you can sell if you dont need it once you have a P5.
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Difficult choice!

Sorry can't help.







Ok, after some thinking.... i'd sell Juno 60 but not P1. Never.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
To do this I would have to sell my Juno 60 and perhaps my Sequential Circuits Pro One.
Yeah. Tough choice. I'm someone who basically never sells a synth unless I absolutely have to, or just don't like it anymore. And that rarely happens. So I pretty much still own every synth I've ever bought.

So, in your shoes, I wouldn't do it unless a P-5 is something you've lusted after for so long it goes beyond logic. As much as I like P-5s, I don't see that as an "equitable exchange". I would regret it later down the road.*



*This is assuming you would need to sell BOTH the Juno and the Pro One.
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I am sorry, but a Juno 60 against a P5?
That is a no-brainer, especially when there is a JP8 in the house. How much Roland do you really need?

More difficult with the Pro One, not that i have ever had one, but it seems that they offer something unique that even the P5 won't give you.
Then again, how much Sequential do you need?

I say get a P5!


...or, just to be obstinate, we could also just accept that the Juno actually is a more useful synth than the JP8 - so that you could sell the JP8 at its inflated price, get the P5 and even have some leftovers for erhemm... stimulants and female companionship...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post

Ok, after some thinking.... i'd sell Juno 60 but not P1. Never.
I would have absolutely no hesitation ditching a Juno 60 toward a Prophet 5. ..but if you are attached to the 60's sound, I can see how the choice would be a difficult one. My only thought is, the chances of picking up a decent P5 are getting slimmer and slimmer. You can easily pick up another J60 if you miss it. Theres tons out there.

As Don suggests, get the Prophet, but keep the Pro-One too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post

...or, just to be obstinate, we could also just accept that the Juno actually is a more useful synth than the JP8 - so that you could sell the JP8 at its inflated price, get the P5 and even have some leftovers for erhemm... stimulants and female companionship...


seriously though i say follow your instinct, drop the J60&Pro1 and get yourself that Pro-5..... JP-8/Pro5 is the ultimate combo
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re solid arp on JP8..

kenton cv-> midi converter.. use the ARP OUT socket (not all kentons have this).. turns midi-clock into arp clock really well. solid jp8 arps.
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Good time to sell a Juno 60. I don't see the point of having it if you have a JP-8.

BTW, there is a recently serviced P5 rev2 on eBay right now with a starting bid of under $2k.
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Tough decisions.
The P5 has been my main poly for years and I sold my Juno 60 as, although it is a lovely synth, it stamps it's sound on everything whereas the P5 can be sculpted into most songs nicely IMHO.
Wish I had kept the Juno BUT the P5 is in a different league.
The Pro 1 is a great mono but not one I get too excited about.
Up to you. I'd do it, but I'm me!
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Thanks for the responses everyone. I'll do my best to give more info regarding the Juno. The Jupiter 8 is an amazing synth and while I have a ce1 and cluster flux it can't really do what the Juno does. The juno sounds like a juno but for the music i make its a colour that has a very strong place. Also I enjoy writing, as in sitting and blocking chords and melodies on the Juno as its extremely immediate. The ob 8 has been great for this too as well as the prophet 08 (actually I'm really enjoying the prophet for this as the action of the keybed is really really good), but the Juno is special to me :-) the Jupiter 8 needs a bit of work despite my efforts to sort out its CPU section. I'm starting to suspect that perhaps something is up with the EEPROM OS at this point. In short it resets itself. I've replaced the z80 and the buffers and it still seems to be doing it.

Now here's the wildcard, I had the prophet 5 many many moons ago, a later rev, and hated the thing. In fact I think my exact words were that my then polysix destroyed it to pieces. However, I was recently at the dsi office and got to play the prophet 5 there and was blown away at how good it sounded. I mean really good.

Decisions decisions. Thanks again for all the feedback.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
the Jupiter 8 needs a bit of work despite my efforts to sort out its CPU section. I'm starting to suspect that perhaps something is up with the EEPROM OS at this point. In short it resets itself. I've replaced the z80 and the buffers and it still seems to be doing it.
silly question but, did you change the battery?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
silly question but, did you change the battery?
Brand new battery. Power supply looks good and physically dead mint. Also tuned and calibrated beyond words. Boot up comes up with the same set of ics. As if its blowing them. Either the CPU (replaced 2) or buffers for CPU. Driving me effing crazy.

I have a tempest too ... Hmmm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
Brand new battery. Power supply looks good and physically dead mint. Also tuned and calibrated beyond words. Boot up comes up with the same set of ics. As if its blowing them. Either the CPU (replaced 2) or buffers for CPU. Driving me effing crazy.

I have a tempest too ... Hmmm
could be a bad contact on a chip.. seems like it's had lots of work done to it, easy to knock an IC, or scratch a trace. it won't boot properly if it has memory issues, which is why i mentioned the battery.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
...or, just to be obstinate, we could also just accept that the Juno actually is a more useful synth than the JP8 - so that you could sell the JP8 at its inflated price, get the P5 and even have some leftovers for erhemm... stimulants and female companionship...
No amount of sex and drugs could make up for the lessened feeling of rock-and-roll after the loss of a Jupiter-8 if I had one.


P5/P1 is much more overlap than JU-60/JP-8.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
Thanks for the responses everyone. I'll do my best to give more info regarding the Juno. The Jupiter 8 is an amazing synth and while I have a ce1 and cluster flux it can't really do what the Juno does. The juno sounds like a juno but for the music i make its a colour that has a very strong place. Also I enjoy writing, as in sitting and blocking chords and melodies on the Juno as its extremely immediate. The ob 8 has been great for this too as well as the prophet 08 (actually I'm really enjoying the prophet for this as the action of the keybed is really really good), but the Juno is special to me :-) the Jupiter 8 needs a bit of work despite my efforts to sort out its CPU section. I'm starting to suspect that perhaps something is up with the EEPROM OS at this point. In short it resets itself. I've replaced the z80 and the buffers and it still seems to be doing it.

Now here's the wildcard, I had the prophet 5 many many moons ago, a later rev, and hated the thing. In fact I think my exact words were that my then polysix destroyed it to pieces. However, I was recently at the dsi office and got to play the prophet 5 there and was blown away at how good it sounded. I mean really good.

Decisions decisions. Thanks again for all the feedback.
have you considered selling the OB8 for the P5?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
Hello mates. As an owner of a lot of vintage analogue I got a question that I've wanted some feedback on. I'm debating getting rid of some gear and picking up a Prophet 5. I'm after the latest rev with midi. Now here's the thing. To do this I would have to sell my Juno 60 and perhaps my Sequential Circuits Pro One. I currently have an OB8, Jupiter 8, as well as access to a Jupiter 6 and a Prophet 08 (mostly for live use but I really like it for certain sounds too). I have a couple of other mono's and a modular system as well (Serge) but for some odd reason the Prophet 5 bug has bit me a little bit. Now the Juno means a lot to me. I did a track that go my band signed with it and it's a joy to play especially the rock solid arp and I would be definitely missing it. Though the Jupiter 8 has an arp, this one has some serious issues clocking correctly to the 808 and the Juno is just solid. The OB8 has a really really interesting arp but it doesn't do the Juno bass (solid ...). I'm just curious would I be missing the Juno 60 too much and especially the Pro One if I sprung for a Prophet 5.

thanks for any feedback from owners of similar gear :-)

-matia
Hmmm. That is a tough one.

I personally feel that the Juno 60 is a very limited synth. I like the arp but it is very limited and has a particular sound. I much prefer the arpeggiator on my a6. It has midi sync and a punch of parameters to mess around with. That coupled with the envelopes makes it very powerful.

I would just as soon get a decent external arpeggiator to sequence my synths than be stuck with the Juno arpeggiator.

If the Juno 60 is holding you back from getting a prophet 5 then definitely sell it. The Prophet 5 is in an whole other world to the Juno.

And for what the Juno gives you can be created easily enough with other equipment and a chorus pedal.

I bought my Juno 6 for £250. At this price selling it wouldn't be worth it to fund a pro 5. Might as well save the extra cash.

Nowadays you can probably get £600 for a good condition Juno 60 which is near enough a quarter the value of a p5 rev3.

I tend to try and keep hold of synths if possible but if i am choosing between the 2 it's not really debatable for me. Prophet 5 all the way.
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Sell the OB8, buy The VST version of it That's very close. Get the P5. I think the closest vst to what you have is the OB and you could get fairly close with your other synths to the OB.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd View Post

OB-8 is excellent, but X(a) blows it out of the water
I have an OBXa and have played OB8. There is a very slight difference. Xa is slightly angrier sounding and thats about it.

Blows it out of the water???? .... a slight ripple at most.

Quote:
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have you considered selling the OB8 for the P5?
Seriousley? Keeping a Juno 60 over a OB8????
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Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd View Post
No amount of sex and drugs could make up for the lessened feeling of rock-and-roll after the loss of a Jupiter-8 if I had one.
As many attributes that one may like to attach to a JP8, one thing it is just not is "rock'n roll"...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matia View Post
Now here's the wildcard, I had the prophet 5 many many moons ago, a later rev, and hated the thing. In fact I think my exact words were that my then polysix destroyed it to pieces. However, I was recently at the dsi office and got to play the prophet 5 there and was blown away at how good it sounded. I mean really good.
This reminds me of another reason I refrain from selling instruments unless I have to: my interests and tastes change... fluctuate... move in phases. Only when I am certain a synth "just don't MOVE me" (to quote Elvis Presley) will I let it go. I have several synths that I rarely play these days. But only a short time ago, I was playing them regularly. My prediction is that the pendulum will swing back... and continue swinging until it one day knocks me unconscious.

Having given this some more thought, however, I would say that if you absolutely MUST have a Prophet-5, you've already moved beyond logic and reason. So... GO FOR IT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
As many attributes that one may like to attach to a JP8, one thing it is just not is "rock'n roll"...
An OB-Xa, on the other hand, is TOTAL ROCK N' ROLL!
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Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
I have an OBXa and have played OB8. There is a very slight difference. Xa is slightly angrier sounding and thats about it.

Blows it out of the water???? .... a slight ripple at most.
That is what I've always heard by people that have used both.

------------

Have you considered selling the Jupiter 8? If it doesn't work properly, what good is it? A malfunctioning JP8 would probably pay entirely for the P5. If you feel confident that you are going to get it fixed without dumping too much into it, than keep it. If not, maybe it is time to say bye to the JP8.
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Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
I have an OBXa and have played OB8. There is a very slight difference. Xa is slightly angrier sounding and thats about it.

Blows it out of the water???? .... a slight ripple at most.
Okay, I edited that part out.

Quote:
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As many attributes that one may like to attach to a JP8, one thing it is just not is "rock'n roll"...
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Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
An OB-Xa, on the other hand, is TOTAL ROCK N' ROLL!
Jupiter-8 is an embodiment of the luxury of successful rock, like a Les Paul Custom.

OB-Xa is the power and fury of raw rock, like an SG Standard.
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The Juno 60 prices are going well into the 'unjustifiable' zone. They'll go for $2k a year from now. You could hang on to it and sell it later. But by then the P5 will go for $5k so maybe not...

Is there such thing as vintage synth bubble?
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Originally Posted by slippast View Post
Is there such thing as vintage synth bubble?
Yes, and it's about to pop. SELL, SELL, SELL!

Seriously though, I could see vintage prices coming down. In a couple years we'll prolly have half a dozen new analog poly's to pick form. Analog is back, just look around.
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Man, this is a tough one. Two years ago I traded a Juno 60 towards an OB-8, and several months ago I traded the OB-8 towards a Prophet 5 (rev 3). And I've got a Pro-One sitting in the studio (but that will be sold to fund a recently acquired SEM). So I'm familiar with most of the machines we're talking about here.

I don't think you'd need to worry about overlap with OB-8 and Prophet 5. Though they have the same CEM chip set, their functionalities are quite different, and (more important) they really do sound different. There are things I miss about the OB-8 (esp. splits and layers), but overall I much prefer the P5 tone.

As for Pro-One and Prophet 5, again, despite the same chip set, they sound rather different in practice. P5 doesn't have quite the punch of the Pro-One. I think one could easily justify owning both.

Juno 60 is a lovely synth with a beautiful tone and classic look, and it's just FUN to sit down and play it. But it does seem a bit redundant with a Jupiter 8. And prices are climbing, so you'd get good value for it.

Dunno. In your shoes, I think I'd sell Juno 60 and Pro-One. There will probably be times that you miss both, but the P5 is a hall-of-fame synth. Can't go wrong with it, seems to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post

Seriousley? Keeping a Juno 60 over a OB8????
well - I suggest because the OB8 is replaced with a P5...

I suggest it because the OP really seems to have an attachment to the J60...
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Thanks everyone :-) yea the ob 8 is not going anywhere. I've used an xa and if you calibrate the ob 8 correctly and program the voice detune I really can't hear the difference between it and an xa (have used one).

Btw what is a software plugin ;-) jk yea no software here save for an hd rig ... But we also work with a 24 track 2 inch machine :-)

And to clarify regarding the Jupiter. It does boot up and works. But what tends to happen is it seems to reset itself while on. Like it locks up hangs and then does the boot up procedure on its own and then you can play it again. Sometimes it just straight locks and I have to reboot. Basically I'm reaching a point within where I need a really good tech to sort it out because I don't know where to go from here. I'm pretty good repairing synths but this one has totally stumped me.

After a bit of thought I think I'm leaning towards just working with what I have. I'm almost done with my sh7 restoration and I think I will finally change the keyboard on my pro one to that fatar keybed (yup I started that thread ...) that way it will be more playable than over the Kenton. Btw that's just me being me. I feel a certain immediacy playing a synth off of its own keyboard rather than midi. Shit maybe ill get the synthwood case for it hahaha.

I think also any synth that inspires me to write a song start to finish needs to stay. Such is the case with the Juno
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sell juno and p1, get p5 while you can.

i understand the attachment to juno, and p1 is fantastic,,, but having jp8, ob8 and now p5,,, i somehow doubt you will be unhappy. p5 will soon become unatainable.


btw, have a tech re-check all the solder joints on JP8 (its a tehnique with brief re-heating with hot air, so it doesnt have an effect on the PCB itself, but re-connects everything)... check all the chips, logic legs for dirt. clean it up. have tech check all three power rail levels ... on main psu, and then move on to all the power distribution points on mobo, modcon boards, voiceboards etc.


my jp8, as any ive tried, loses sync when i change notes or chords,,,when running arp from DAW midi clock via Encore retrofit. it does that even when on its own. its an old problem with this synth. however, it works flawless when you run it via audio click into its ARP sync input.

make sure your click from DAW is loud enough tho - most Rolands and other clock-able machines from the past, expect to see a whopping 5V. some ppl use a boss distortion pedal or any kind of pre for this. most prosumer, and many professional converters just can't output enough juice (they max out at cpl of volts audio level).


rgrds
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Don't sell your Juno 60. They are dear friends to those that have them
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