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making house music without using PC!
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JayPee
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1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
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making house music without using PC!

Hey slutz,

help me!

I just can't make my music using my pc anymore
it's very useful to mix/pre master tracks but it kills my creativity
+ I guess I want limitation using a simple set up

I need make beats not programm it, I want to FEEL my music

I make (deep) house music...I realised the most I use ableton/vst..the less it sounds HOUSE MUSIC.
I want that raw feeling I had when I started when I used loops/samples from vinyl using acid lol

basically I want to use ableton for mixing and editing if needed
but not that much

I know there are a lot of good producers here

what's your workflow? maybe I just need a good midi controller to make beats to have more CONTROL on my music

i use ableton
keyboard midi
launchpad
good monitoring
asr 10 Rack
omega 8 (Im going to sell it to buy maybe a mpc and cheapest analog synths)

I thought using a mpc would be great (mpc 2000/2500?)

need some advices, what's your experience?

thanks Slutz I'm loooost ,


J.
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#2
1st December 2012
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MPC is the usual suspect. 2500 is nice, just don't expect much mojo - it'll be very useful to drive your ASR and newly acquired cheap analogs, and to sample bits that don't need too much character.

Getting rid of the Omega's kind of a shame, though.
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#3
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
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I make Detroit inspired techno / deep house. I used to use Logic for sequencing an all hardware setup but unfortunately had to sell everything. This last year i have been building my new studio & have bought an MPC 5000 for sequencing duties. Whilst i haven't fully set up my studio i have been testing out a few pieces in combinations & the MPC is perfect for my requirements. It simply allows me to compose in a non analytical way. Unlike how i felt with Logic, or other DAWs. I know it's a state of mind but the freedom i feel getting away from a DAW is one of the biggest inspirational factors for me.

Moodymann uses an MPC, Carl Craig used an MPC, Arne Weinberg made loads of classic tracks on an MPC. MPC users amongst the techno & house scene are more common than it might initially seem.
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1st December 2012
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The entire idea that they're only good for hiphop is complete nonsense. I wonder how many people missed out on it because of that.
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1st December 2012
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I use the MSQ700! I had 2 MMT8s and got rid of them for the MSQ's.


Good workflow and lots of fun!


alexP
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1st December 2012
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I have no interest at all in House music, but i've got an EMX1, can't think of any reason why that wouldn't be a good fit for what you're looking for.
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1st December 2012
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If you go the MPC route and don't want to spend too much money...

MPC1000 will be as good for House styles as an MPC2500, the sampling engine is the same and the all important timing is the same! ie. they both have a small amount of jitter in the clock department, nothing to worry about though. The 1000 can be had considerably cheaper than the 2500.

If its a 2000 you want, go for the 2000XL because it has (according to other GS members) pad mutes among other upgrades to the standard 2000. Pad mutes are a must for house and techno! basically one of the tracks in a sequence becomes a 'mute' track and you record your mute performance into this track, this allows you to arrange on the fly.

I think you could probably afford to keep your Omega 8 if you went for a 1000 or 2000XL. It is by all accounts a synth worth keeping!!
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JayPee
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1st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexp View Post

Good workflow and lots of fun!
THIS IS IT.

Sounds like a mpc would be a good start
mpc + asr 10 R + omega or other analog synths (which are the best to complete it?)

thanks guys,

J.
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1st December 2012
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I just checked .. $400/$450 for a mpc 2000XL!

sounds good!
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1st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morechips View Post
If you go the MPC route and don't want to spend too much money...

MPC1000 will be as good for House styles as an MPC2500, the sampling engine is the same and the all important timing is the same! ie. they both have a small amount of jitter in the clock department, nothing to worry about though. The 1000 can be had considerably cheaper than the 2500.

If its a 2000 you want, go for the 2000XL because it has (according to other GS members) pad mutes among other upgrades to the standard 2000. Pad mutes are a must for house and techno! basically one of the tracks in a sequence becomes a 'mute' track and you record your mute performance into this track, this allows you to arrange on the fly.

I think you could probably afford to keep your Omega 8 if you went for a 1000 or 2000XL. It is by all accounts a synth worth keeping!!
I don't know differences between all mpc's

I have to check it

thanks!
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1st December 2012
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If you're after loops from vinyl then yea, mpc would be probably the best ticket.

Actually any groovebox is helpful for the workflow, if you can get the sounds you want out of it.

But then, it always comes to this: "OK, now i got my tune in mpc... now what?"

and this "now what?" would mean "back to the computer" moment. And it usually comes with boring tracking procedure or even more boring sample/loop transfer/export/conversion process

So, for tracking you'll need high quality audio interface preferably with multi IO and I hope you're planning for it now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morechips View Post
MPC1000 will be as good for House styles as an MPC2500, the sampling engine is the same and the all important timing is the same! ie. they both have a small amount of jitter in the clock department, nothing to worry about though. The 1000 can be had considerably cheaper than the 2500.
But you'll get rectangular pads that don't feel as good (IMHO) and you're pressing more buttons to get where you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
If you're after loops from vinyl then yea, mpc would be probably the best ticket.

Actually any groovebox is helpful for the workflow, if you can get the sounds you want out of it.

But then, it always comes to this: "OK, now i got my tune in mpc... now what?"
Yeah, that was eventually the dealbreaker for me.

It's great if you do have lots of I/O so you can use the MPC as a true master sequencer and just keep everything in MIDI until the last possible moment, but even then - that deprives me of some great things a DAW allows me to do quickly, and I've been there/done that during my workstation/MIDI-only Cubase days. Then again, I don't work in a pattern-based way anymore.
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1st December 2012
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Nobody for the Octatrack yet?! I was in a quite similar position as OP, working just with the mouse in front of the pc made me sick, so I first wanted to buy a MPC 2000xl too but then I got the OT for a good price. Have you thought about getting an Octatrack? Its very good in sequencing and sampling and would surely works well with a MPC. Here are some tracks I made on the OT: Kanal von bahamasstep - YouTube
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1st December 2012
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I just watched one of your videos and - I'm kind of intrigued by that.

How would one go about using the Octatrack as a pure drum machine replacement? It has 8 tracks - barely enough to get all percussion in there.

Or do you quickly switch between samples - e.g. resample kicks, kicks w/ hihats, kicks w/ hihats and rimshot as single loops so you free up other tracks?
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1st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM View Post
But then, it always comes to this: "OK, now i got my tune in mpc... now what?"

and this "now what?" would mean "back to the computer" moment. And it usually comes with boring tracking procedure or even more boring sample/loop transfer/export/conversion process

So, for tracking you'll need high quality audio interface preferably with multi IO and I hope you're planning for it now.
If you want to make a "raw deep house" I don't think that has to be such a huge concern as many of those records used mackie mixers and really didn't have that many tracks. The budget Allen & Heath mixers available today probably sound better than the mackies....

I use a MPC 1k paired with an Octatrack and it's a really fun combo. The octatrack actually got me to try my hand at dancier music, which I didn't use to do because resizing patterns on the fly is so enjoyable.

Maybe use the computer for send effects on a mixer and resample your audio. I also use my computer as a sound module to use as a starting point to sample for things like drum hits as the computer is probably the easiest way to keep samples organized, but hardware keeps me from getting distracted.

With the MPC I can use the digital connection for pristine quality, but more often than not I like to run it though my mixer, effects and eqs as I sample it to make it sound more alive. It's great to get hands on with the eqs and volume as I'm sampling and makes it less tedious and more musical for me.
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#16
1st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
I just watched one of your videos and - I'm kind of intrigued by that.

How would one go about using the Octatrack as a pure drum machine replacement? It has 8 tracks - barely enough to get all percussion in there.

Or do you quickly switch between samples - e.g. resample kicks, kicks w/ hihats, kicks w/ hihats and rimshot as single loops so you free up other tracks?
Thanks

About the drums, in most of the videos I'm just using a kick, snare, 2hh and maybe 1-2 percs. So most of the time I have 3-4 free tracks, which I use for the other samples. I rarely resampling anything. For synth purposes I only using my microwave2 or the shruthi-1. So here a 2 MIDI tracks in use. But my plan is to buy a Akai S900 for the dirty 12bit sound only for the drums. So that I load the drums from a disc into the S900 and send MIDI notes from the OT to the sampler to free the OT sample tracks. Its a bit complicated :D Sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand everything.
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Yoozer: the OT has sample locking, meaning you can set the sample for each track on each step.
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Perfectly understandable, don't worry . I've seen some come by for pretty nice prices and at the moment I'm without a MIDI drum machine, so that's why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkerton View Post
Yoozer: the OT has sample locking, meaning you can set the sample for each track on each step.
So you could basically dump a 909 kit as one big consecutive sample in there and switch to the right offset? Neat.

Too bad I first have to use my savings for a Rhodes, otherwise...
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1st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkerton View Post
Yoozer: the OT has sample locking, meaning you can set the sample for each track on each step.
that's not 100% true. you can change the sample per step but the last sample that played is cutted of. Basically you have 8 mono tracks, so you can't play 2 samples at the same time on the same track.
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Whilst i don't own an Octatrack i think it's worth mentioning to the OP that some people find the Octatrack extremely counter intuitive to work with (some don't of course) It's obviously an amazing machine but Just mentioning this as the OP did say "I need make beats not programm it, I want to FEEL my music"
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for workflow and creativity reasons, i just got an mpc 2500 yesterday so i can ditch ableton and work entirely otb (apart from tracking into ableton where i can do some fixing/editing/pre-mixing of sorts). i make detroit-influenced house and techno and hope that it'll work well for me. time will tell .
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I'm selling off a custom MPC 2500 if the OP is interested

I used an MPC 1000 with JJOS and it's very fun as compared to doing it all on a laptop. From what I've read, the 4000 has some of the best options of the bunch, but you'll end up spending $1000-$1400 on one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portervance View Post
I'm selling off a custom MPC 2500 if the OP is interested

I used an MPC 1000 with JJOS and it's very fun as compared to doing it all on a laptop. From what I've read, the 4000 has some of the best options of the bunch, but you'll end up spending $1000-$1400 on one.
plus jjos is still being updated for the 1000/2500, unlike the akai os for the 4000. this is what persuaded me about the 2500 over the 2000xl and 4000.

having never used an mpc before, i'm battling my way through both the "engrish" jjos manual and the official manual at the same time.

it'll definitely be worth it though. can't wait to get it linked up to my s950!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binman_uk View Post
for workflow and creativity reasons, i just got an mpc 2500 yesterday so i can ditch ableton and work entirely otb (apart from tracking into ableton where i can do some fixing/editing/pre-mixing of sorts). i make detroit-influenced house and techno and hope that it'll work well for me. time will tell .
Enjoy...
How heavy is that thing. I remember when I first got it back in 2008 I was like what this thing ways a ton.
Great build quality.
Enjoy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joostoftoday View Post
that's not 100% true. you can change the sample per step but the last sample that played is cutted of. Basically you have 8 mono tracks, so you can't play 2 samples at the same time on the same track.
Well yea, i just assumed he was aware they were monophonic tracks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
So you could basically dump a 909 kit as one big consecutive sample in there and switch to the right offset? Neat....
Yes exactly, but as joost mentions, they are monophonic tracks so some care must be taken with regards to longer decaying sounds.
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2500 seems a good choice with multiple outputs + usb + memory

I have a Lynx twoB interface/convertors (Two Analog Inputs and Six Analog Outputs)


how do you work with mpc when you want to import your tracks in your daw?

sory for newbie questions
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2nd December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
2500 seems a good choice with multiple outputs + usb + memory

I have a Lynx twoB interface/convertors (Two Analog Inputs and Six Analog Outputs)


how do you work with mpc when you want to import your tracks in your daw?

sory for newbie questions
I've got a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 I/O with Behringer ADA8000 for a total of 16 input channels into my DAW over firewire. These come from the direct outputs on my 16 channel mixer. Outputs of the MPC are plugged into the line inputs of the mixer, along with synths and drum machines.

I'm still learning the MPC, but I'll be recording everything live into Ableton (pre-eq/fade). Once tracked, I'll re-route everything back out to the mixer again for final mixdown, whilst tidying things up in Ableton if necessary.

I'm finding the poorly-translated "engrish" manual for the MPC 2500 JJOS-XL operating system quite hard to work through however.
It'll take a while before I'm completely comfortable with all this machine can do, as it seems to be very capable indeed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTechno View Post
Enjoy...
How heavy is that thing. I remember when I first got it back in 2008 I was like what this thing ways a ton.
Great build quality.
Enjoy.
Indeed. It weighs a lot more than it looks.
Considering it's going to be the centrepiece of my studio for years to come, portability had to take a back seat this time
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2nd December 2012
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i'd recommend the MPC 3000 over the newer 2500/5000. even the 2000XL or the 60 (i use both these & SP1200). if you want to go modern i'd actually recommend the new MPC Renaissance, classic MPC workflow with full computer integration.. definitely worth the look imo..
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