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#121
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #121
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Even without listening:

Making a perfect 303 clone that allows you to dump the original is still a holy grail. Thus, any claims that this one sounds like the original can be seen as extraordinary (after all, they've been at it for over a decade and still haven't matched it). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

TT has built x0xboxes before, and they weren't exactly rated as fantastic if I recall correctly.

This thing looks very much like the original, but for what reason? Arguably, the 303's case or UI isn't superior in terms of build quality - many 303s have their silver paint disappearing around the knobs. The plastic case itself isn't really special. The cramped form factor is something you take for granted, but something bigger would be better; so what's left is a deliberate choice to cash in on the iconography of the original (and this is where it gets funny; how hard is it to replace the labels on the front with something resembling the original logotype and sell it as genuine?)

Combine all that and there's enough reason to be skeptic. While audioconsult's dour outlook is not exactly constructive, I wouldn't want to take that bet. Also, despite being mr. Grumpy, he knows a little bit about electronics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I own a TB303 and it's surely worth $600 bucks for me to buy ones of these TT303 things to shut you up.
You think he'll recant and see the errors of his ways? You have more faith in humanity than I do.
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#122
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
...how hard is it to replace the labels on the front with something resembling the original logotype and sell it as genuine?
now that could be a bit of a problem...


(this place could seriously use some new/more smilies.)
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#123
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Great post Yoozer I think you nailed it!

I listened to the TT comparisons to TBs (thanks to a prev poster) and I do not think I am anal about it. But examples I heard on the net really had something very nasty in the highs. I think many synths can be made sound "acidish" - but to get real close is another thing; (the xoxbox did this for me, at least the ones I have).
#124
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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I do wonder (in the grand scheme of things) if in another 30 years time people generally might actually prefer the sound of a Xoxbox or other clones to the original 303. All these comparisons & arguments about trying to recreate an exact copy but do any of you guys actually prefer the tone/sound of the clones? It's not heresy to say so.
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#125
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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^ honestly i've yet to hear a clone or plug-in emulation of any analog unit that sounds better or even 100% identical to it's original counterpart. you can talk about better reliability, stability, flexibility.. but there really is something about old analog.. maybe the aging components i don't know.. even moog have a hard time nailing their own vintage synths, so imagine a clone company.. the 303 is also a bit more dubious to replicate then your regular mono due to the filter design, accent & slide parameters...
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#126
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurethought View Post
I do wonder (in the grand scheme of things) if in another 30 years time people generally might actually prefer the sound of a Xoxbox or other clones to the original 303. All these comparisons & arguments about trying to recreate an exact copy but do any of you guys actually prefer the tone/sound of the clones? It's not heresy to say so.
I don't think all TB-303s sound the same, at least not from what i've heard and from what people told me. And i think it's the same for clones. I have an Acidlab Bassline and a friend does too. They sound a bit different.

I like all clones. More variation on the 303 sound is good, makes for a larger sonic palette. My Acidlab doesn't sound exactly like a TB-303 and i love it like that. I use it in many tracks for various duties.
#127
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #127
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First of all the tt was not designed by technology transplant nor is it an xoxbox in a tb case. It is designed by a 3rd party in the US.

Second there hasn't been any good comparisons yet. I imagine if someone tuned and serviced their tb so it was actually in spec with the schematics it would sound the same as a new tt. I bought a new tb in the late 90's that had never been used and the sound was the same very sterile and boring.

Everyone is making so many assumptions based off one crappy youtube vid and not first hand comparisons.

Also the fact that robin whittle of devilfish fame has tested it and given his approval on build quality and sound speaks volumes. This man knows more about the tb than any man on the planet.
#128
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
the 303 is also a bit more dubious to replicate then your regular mono due to the filter design, accent & slide parameters...
Have they figured out the wonky square wave yet?
#129
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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^ dunno...i can get a little close on my 101 but yea clones seem to kinda miss the mark..

@pelican: the TT303 brochure states the company is registered in Hong Kong, besides as mentioned already it isn't a stretch to figure out what TT stands for as well as the link to Technology Transplants owner, the elusive Cy(clone).. not to mention i seriously doubt anyone from the US in their right mind would be associated with such a legally suspect product... as for Robin Whittle from DevilFish, it's already been stated he may have a financial interest in all of this so perhaps not the most objective person to give an opinion atm...
#130
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #130
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So far in this thread : 2 first time posters defending the TT-303 with statements no one can verify yet.

I really want the TT-303 to be all what people claim it is...
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#131
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Even without listening:

Making a perfect 303 clone that allows you to dump the original is still a holy grail. Thus, any claims that this one sounds like the original can be seen as extraordinary (after all, they've been at it for over a decade and still haven't matched it). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

TT has built x0xboxes before, and they weren't exactly rated as fantastic if I recall correctly.

This thing looks very much like the original, but for what reason? Arguably, the 303's case or UI isn't superior in terms of build quality - many 303s have their silver paint disappearing around the knobs. The plastic case itself isn't really special. The cramped form factor is something you take for granted, but something bigger would be better; so what's left is a deliberate choice to cash in on the iconography of the original (and this is where it gets funny; how hard is it to replace the labels on the front with something resembling the original logotype and sell it as genuine?)

Combine all that and there's enough reason to be skeptic. While audioconsult's dour outlook is not exactly constructive, I wouldn't want to take that bet. Also, despite being mr. Grumpy, he knows a little bit about electronics.



You think he'll recant and see the errors of his ways? You have more faith in humanity than I do.

Great post.

And as for the last part, you're right, no chance of him admitting anything other than his "usual."

BUT, whether he admits it or not, the pure act of using his ears as opposed to his ego, would show volumes.

There's this myth that tech specs and parts are irreplaceable, Dave Kulka here in L.A. has repaired many a "non-repairable" AMS reverb, EMT, or Lexicon, and while I'm NO tech, I trust his expertise, and it's his view that electrons simply flow and there's more than one way to direct that flow to get to the same result (paraphrased badly for me, a layman... er, lame man)

-a
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#132
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonox View Post
So far in this thread : 2 first time posters defending the TT-303 with statements no one can verify yet.
there is definitely something very suspect around this product besides the obvious copyright infringement... fwiw the pawn shop owner that carried them in paris told me he was approached 2 months ago by a man who walked in his store with a prototype in his briefcase..he ordered 10 but also said until he received them last week he was afraid it might be a scam.. dude was even losing sleep over this lol.. anyways i've tried it myself it sounded ok but i'm still curious what's inside it.. is it repairable if something goes wrong?? these are the kind of things i'm wondering about..
#133
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #133
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.. the one i ordered seems to be in germany already. probably @my studio tomorrow ? .... once its here i will post some soundcloud links ....
#134
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
there is definitely something very suspect around this product besides the obvious copyright infringement... fwiw the pawn shop owner that carried them in paris told me he was approached 2 months ago by a man who walked in his store with a prototype in his briefcase..he ordered 10 but also said until he received them last week he was afraid it might be a scam.. dude was even losing sleep over this lol.. anyways i've tried it myself it sounded ok but i'm still curious what's inside it.. is it repairable if something goes wrong?? these are the kind of things i'm wondering about..
Nice info, and i agree with you. We have too little information yet and it's quite fishy.

There is no official website, a handful of machines were sold and no one knows about the maker.

I assume the looks are going to sell them to people who do not know or care as much about the sound.
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#135
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonox View Post
Nice info, and i agree with you. We have too little information yet and it's quite fishy.

There is no official website, a handful of machines were sold and no one knows about the maker.

I assume the looks are going to sell them to people who do not know or care as much about the sound.
- i care a lot about "the sound" ...
#136
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #136
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I just watched a few youtube videos and there is something strange about the timing of it. As if it's not properly synched to the midi clock. Maybe it's the pattern or the person's setup. Am i the only one noticing this ? (I'm not that sensitive to timing, usually).
#137
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futureaudio View Post
- i care a lot about "the sound" ...
Sorry, i did not meant to disrespect anyone buying this machine. I assume that if the sound is not good, the only people that will buy those are not caring as much about the sound (which i understand, as well).

I apologize if this came across as a lack of repect to you.

Please share here what you think once you get yours, please ?
#138
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonox View Post
So far in this thread : 2 first time posters defending the TT-303 with statements no one can verify yet.

I really want the TT-303 to be all what people claim it is...
Well, Gilby_UK, Post #53 is interesting. If you check his Vcard for his email, and search for his email, it leads to his Ebay account where's he's made a nice bit o change selling Special edition Xoxboxes.

eBay Feedback profile for we-love-analog

He doesn't have anything up for sale now but here's one of his past ads if it sheds some light on his opinion:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Special-Ed...d=420439340518

I'm not sure how it all ties in, but it does make his single post suspect...


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#139
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
^ dunno...i can get a little close on my 101 but yea clones seem to kinda miss the mark..

@pelican: the TT303 brochure states the company is registered in Hong Kong, besides as mentioned already it isn't a stretch to figure out what TT stands for as well as the link to Technology Transplants owner, the elusive Cy(clone).. not to mention i seriously doubt anyone from the US in their right mind would be associated with such a legally suspect product... as for Robin Whittle from DevilFish, it's already been stated he may have a financial interest in all of this so perhaps not the most objective person to give an opinion atm...
As stated on the analogue heaven mailing list if you look inside on the circuit board(s) it will tell you who designed it, and it is a company in the US. You will see many posts from robin on the tech aspect and from cy himself. It will always be a better wealth of knowledge and members of prestige than gearslutz

Yes robin will make money off this, but he would never mislead people. If you think he would tarnish his image for a small monetary gain you must not have ever dealt with him.
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#140
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonox View Post
So far in this thread : 2 first time posters defending the TT-303 with statements no one can verify yet.

I really want the TT-303 to be all what people claim it is...
I like that u think i am suspect as i am first time posting here. I am also a member of the elektron forum, analogue heaven, dsi tempest forum, cirklon forum, etc for years.

All i am stating is that half of this thread is stating disbelief in this product before they've even heard it. There is one comparison on youtube and it is weak. His tb sounds uncalibrated and the pattern has more glide than the pattern on the tt.

The real question is if the tt is as good would anyone really admit it? I have owned tb's and had one modded to devilfish. So like everyone else i am skeptical, but without a proper comparison who knows the truth?
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#141
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #141
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some people watch james bond films, we have the TT Bass Bot thread on GS ;-)

I think most here would grudgingly admit if it sounds good, really. A true slut cannot hide once it is proven!
#142
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
I like that u think i am suspect as i am first time posting here. I am also a member of the elektron forum, analogue heaven, dsi tempest forum, cirklon forum, etc for years.

All i am stating is that half of this thread is stating disbelief in this product before they've even heard it. There is one comparison on youtube and it is weak. His tb sounds uncalibrated and the pattern has more glide than the pattern on the tt.

The real question is if the tt is as good would anyone really admit it? I have owned tb's and had one modded to devilfish. So like everyone else i am skeptical, but without a proper comparison who knows the truth?
I do not find you suspect, i find the fact that the few people defending the TT-303 were first posters here. In fact, i didn't think you'd reply and even less that you'd been on other forums for years.

I do wish for the thing to be all we wish it to be. I mean, who wouldn't like a TB-303 copy for 700$. Brand new as well.

What is the name of the US company that's written on the board ?
#143
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xonox View Post
What is the name of the US company that's written on the board ?
The name on the pcb board is Rezlabs or Rezonance Labs, probably some Joe designed the pcb in a garage somewhere and probably based it on someone else's idea which was to squash a x0xb0x pcb into a 303 case.

Cyclone Analogic is registered to Hong Kong and that it is connected to Cy, it's been Cy's ambition to recreate the 303 until Ladyada took it away from him.

If the TT-303 had been designed with a different case and look it may have been more plausible, but decided instead to steal the look of the original TB-303 instead, infringing upon Roland's iconic bassline.

It's nothing more than a counterfeit product. It won't affect current TB-303 prices for that matter.
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#144
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
As stated on the analogue heaven mailing list if you look inside on the circuit board(s) it will tell you who designed it, and it is a company in the US. You will see many posts from robin on the tech aspect and from cy himself. It will always be a better wealth of knowledge and members of prestige than gearslutz
how about a link to that circuit board? like i said i'm very curious about the insides of this thing..also you claimed above the TT303 was not done by Technology Transplant yet now you claim Cy is involved...which one is it??!

Quote:
Yes robin will make money off this, but he would never mislead people. If you think he would tarnish his image for a small monetary gain you must not have ever dealt with him.
imo associating yourself with such a legally questionable product already says much on your integrity however resourceful/knowledgeable you may be on all things 303.. but i'll let the courts of law be the judges on that (you know Roland is gonna sue sooner or later right?)
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#145
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
As stated on the analogue heaven mailing list if you look inside on the circuit board(s) it will tell you who designed it, and it is a company in the US. You will see many posts from robin on the tech aspect and from cy himself. It will always be a better wealth of knowledge and members of prestige than gearslutz

Yes robin will make money off this, but he would never mislead people. If you think he would tarnish his image for a small monetary gain you must not have ever dealt with him.
and robin states that it sounds as good as a real 303 ?

sorry that i ve problems to belive that.. after having heard that claim a dozend times in the last 15 years and having been in the xoxbox trap aswell, doing really everything to bring it closer to a real 303, i would be very surprised when this is this time true.

i personally spend as much for clones and software emus as i finaly spend on a real 303 again..

when i finally gave in and paid 1200 for a 303 sh

but.. when you dont buy right you buy twice... came true for me...

when i would have went straight for a real one i could have made the devilfish mod from the safed money and have enough left for a additional mfb synth module.

in short.. i dont belive the hype
#146
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Haha.
I knew from the beginning that this thread would turn out to be a giant mess.
So far, it seems that Xanax and I are the only ones who tried it.
#147
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post
Haha.
I knew from the beginning that this thread would turn out to be a giant mess.
So far, it seems that Xanax and I are the only ones who tried it.
well, on the last posts I found it actually to be quite civilised and interesting, no? What is wrong with trying to get some information before buying something? (apart from the idea I cannot shake off that the marketing points exactly into the direction to have as many people as possible buy it immedieately in fear of missing the great big thing that will only last a few days)

Nothing wrong either with trying it out though! - and feedback is surely appreciated...
#148
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Great post.

And as for the last part, you're right, no chance of him admitting anything other than his "usual."

BUT, whether he admits it or not, the pure act of using his ears as opposed to his ego, would show volumes.

There's this myth that tech specs and parts are irreplaceable, Dave Kulka here in L.A. has repaired many a "non-repairable" AMS reverb, EMT, or Lexicon, and while I'm NO tech, I trust his expertise, and it's his view that electrons simply flow and there's more than one way to direct that flow to get to the same result (paraphrased badly for me, a layman... er, lame man)

-a

<deleted by moderator - no flamewar please?!>

I used my ears..

its actually possible to judge a sound from youtube videos and that thing sounds way more like a xoxbox.. i ve them booth here next to me .. a vintage parts boosted xoxbox with original transistors from the 80´s and original selected vca chip and original capaciators and additional cross traces caps in the oscillator section to get the square wave a little closer to a real 303...

<deleted by moderator - no flamewar please?!>

Last edited by Reptil; 7th December 2012 at 12:26 AM.. Reason: hmm
#149
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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i'd like to hear a side by side comparison with a tb303 that's recorded DRY...no effect and no distorion pedals...and for the love of *** recorded properly and not by a phone camera's mic!

or just get Nick from sonicstate to review it!

apparently there are now several of these been sold...does some owner want to step forward?

this is early TB303 bass in the 80's

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#150
4th December 2012
Old 4th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cresshead View Post
i'd like to hear a side by side comparison with a tb303 that's recorded DRY...no effect and no distorion pedals...and for the love of *** recorded properly and not by a phone camera's mic!

or just get Nick from sonicstate to review it!
problem is that the usual 303 newb does 1 bar patterns with all 16th notes poessesed.. with such brute lines even software emus get close to a real 303..

but what happens when you do one of the rubbery cyberfunk 303 lines that morph with the filter and accent settings and start to scream when the resonance is up? reality is that such lines transfered 1:1 into a clone often play back as something that is a bad stiff and harsh joke against the singing of a real 303..

whoever manages to clone that squelchy real 303 behavior has my deepest gratulations..

Because as the xoxbox shows.. just the same circuit is not enough..
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