Bass Bot TT303
#61
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #61
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilby_uk View Post
Hi Guys

I picked up a TT 303 today from superior sounds london, on way home from work (how fast was I driving! ;-)

All i can say is WOW! - this is like a brand new TB303.

Sound wise it's brilliant - it can scream like the original and go
deeper for a real thumping bass.

The saw and square wave are spot on - it also puts my x0xb0x in it's
place lol.
How do I know, well... I compared it to my TB303 ;-)

Luv the packaging too.

Thanks for a great service superior sounds. I'm off to have some beers and a
TT303 session :-D
What you mean by "and go deeper"?? Can it go deeper than the original?

O, and welcome on GS ;-)
Quote
1
#62
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

If it sounds good, it sounds good. If sounds like the real deal, then amazing...

I just want some honest assesment, not some spammer and on the other end, not someone invested in their egos tied to their decades old 303 (I own one by the way).

I HOPE it sounds perfect! That would be great... let's see!

-a
#63
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #63
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d1rtynyc View Post
That looks really cool and is a great idea.

I love the statement: "Humans may program musical patterns manually using traditional step entry with control over pitch"
and dj´s use the instaDj pattern generator?
#64
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #64
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
If it sounds good, it sounds good. If sounds like the real deal, then amazing...

I just want some honest assesment, not some spammer and on the other end, not someone invested in their egos tied to their decades old 303 (I own one by the way).

I HOPE it sounds perfect! That would be great... let's see!

-a
21th century circuit says probably its a smd board.. and that cant win against a real 303 as is demonstrated by many clones allready.. its not only the circuit that defines the sound.. the components matter too.
#65
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #65
Lives for gear
 

well we are sold out here in paris after only 24h!

i did manage to play around with one for a bit. first impression: it looks & feels like a TB, but that you already knew from the pics.. soundwise.. does it sound like a 30 year old TB? not really...but it's definitely got 303 mojo. it's still a little unclear what's under the hood, i'm assuming a x0xb0x but hard to say. as a 303 owner, i must say i was impressed but it's kind of hard to tell if it isn't a placebo effect as the look & feel really plays an important part in the 303 experience..
#66
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #66
Lives for gear
 
MORDICUS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
If it sounds good, it sounds good. If sounds like the real deal, then amazing...

I just want some honest assesment, not some spammer and on the other end, not someone invested in their egos tied to their decades old 303 (I own one by the way).

I HOPE it sounds perfect! That would be great... let's see!

-a
Says it all for me !!!!! And what does the job does the job !!!!
those instruments are made to let us do music not thesis even if as every body on this board i like to talk bout those 20 % that separates the " reals deals " from some clones or differents revisions from the same machine ( can be applied to comps ; basses ; keys ; drums machines .... )


PEACE



MORDICUS
#67
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #67
Lives for gear
 
MORDICUS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
and dj´s use the instaDj pattern generator?
It s a tool ; one more ;nobody s forced to use it ... might even be a game changer for some who don t know bout playing an instrument or music theory ( well u don t need that to create 303 basslines i think !!!! )
i ll go off topic a bit now but i m happy to use my jomox x base 09 and music and more mb33 mk2 to make music ... i ll be very interested in trying tt 303 ...


PEACE


MORDICUS
#68
1st December 2012
Old 1st December 2012
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
21th century circuit says probably its a smd board.. and that cant win against a real 303 as is demonstrated by many clones allready.. its not only the circuit that defines the sound.. the components matter too.

Oh, so you've heard it? Awesome! Please tell us more about the sound, I'd love an actually "by the ears" review.

-a
Quote
2
#69
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #69
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
 

So, I got one yesterday and have a real 303. I’ve tried it extensively before purchase.
It's too early for me to do a proper review but I can give you some insights.

The sequencer is awesome. It's a real improvement compared to the real one. Dead easy to use.
I don't know much about the latest Sokos O.S. on Xoxbox so I can't compare here.
When controlled externally, key tracking is fine. If need be, the TT can be use as a midi/cv converter.

Sound wise, it does the job pretty well but the 303 wins.
Still, in many settings, I can't tell the difference. I'm impressed. Great clone.

However, I found two noticeable weak points imho. It's not perfect.

First, the high could be a little harsh when the resonance is fully cranked.
My guess is that real Roland diode filters just can’t be replace.
Second, the accent is sometimes less cutting than the one of a real 303.
All in one, the 303 is a bit more “liquid” for lack of a better word.

Those slight differences are no deal breaker as the 303 mojo is definitely in there. Same territory.

IMHO, it won’t make you sell your 303 if you have one… But any 303 owner would be pleased with one.

Get both...
Quote
1
#70
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #70
Lives for gear
 
MORDICUS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post
So, I got one yesterday and have a real 303. I’ve tried it extensively before purchase.
It's too early for me to do a proper review but I can give you some insights.

The sequencer is awesome. It's a real improvement compared to the real one. Dead easy to use.
I don't know much about the latest Sokos O.S. on Xoxbox so I can't compare here.
When controlled externally, key tracking is fine. If need be, the TT can be use as a midi/cv converter.

Sound wise, it does the job pretty well but the 303 wins.
Still, in many settings, I can't tell the difference. I can honestly say that its a great clone.

However, I found two noticeable weak points imho. It's not perfect.

First, the high could be a little harsh when the resonance is cranked.
My guess is that real Roland diode filters just can’t be replace.
Second, the accent is sometimes less cutting than the one of a real 303.
All in one, the 303 is a bit more “liquid” for lack of a better word.

Those differences are no deal breaker as the 303 mojo is definitely in there. Same territory.
So, it won’t make you sell your 303 if you have one… But any 303 owner would be pleased with one.

Get both...
Hi NAWAX
Is it sold out at MASTERWAVE ? i ll give the guy a cool on tuesday but did he talked about a second batch ? or as we all think this tt 303 is gonna disappear as fast as it showed up ?
thanks for your input ; great ... i feel confident with your viewing ....


PEACE


MORDICUS
#71
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #71
Lives for gear
 
NAWAX's Avatar
 

@Mordicus:

When I left the shop yesterday afternoon, 9 out of 10 were already reserved/sold. I guess that the last one is already gone.
M.E.S.I./Modular Square sell them as well. You can try to get one there.

A second batch is supposed to come, maybee in Juanuary.
Thing is, as of today, I have no sure information I can rely on.

For more details, drop me a P.M.
#72
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #72
Lives for gear
 
roginator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post

When I left the shop yesterday afternoon, 9 out of 10 were already reserved/sold. I guess that the last one is already gone.
this should be message to big synthesizer manufacturers ... cause THEY DONT KNOW WHAT PPL WANT TO USE!!!!

I never heard that synth is selling so FAST !!

and yeah .. I want one too!
BM0
#73
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #73
I use to want a TB-303, but could never bring myself to spending near a thousand or more for one (years ago prices). I like the concept of x0xb0x. If you can find a good builder that is passionate of the 303 sound, you can have something better than a TB-303, IMO.
Quote
2
#74
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #74
Lives for gear
 
MORDICUS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
I use to want a TB-303, but could never bring myself to spending near a thousand or more for one (years ago prices). I like the concept of x0xb0x. If you can find a good builder that is passionate of the 303 sound, you can have something better than a TB-303, IMO.
Yeah well here in france the offer goes as high as 1800 / 2000 € for TB 303 with DEVILFISH mod .... 1800 € is nearly 2400 $ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the comments of NAWAX and others the TT 303 IS FOR ME THE PERFECT INVESTMENT for a piece of equipment to tour with ....


PEACE


MORDICUS
#75
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAWAX View Post
The sequencer is awesome. It's a real improvement compared to the real one. Dead easy to use.
The sequencer on the TT-303 might be marginally better than the original, but it's still a long way behind with what the QS-303 can do.
#76
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #76
Lives for gear
 
plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roginator View Post
this should be message to big synthesizer manufacturers ... cause THEY DONT KNOW WHAT PPL WANT TO USE!!!!
I kind of agree here in some ways. I'm amazed that Roland haven't done this, except for their sorry attempt with the MC-303. If KORG can make the Monotribe for $200, certainly Roland can make a new analog TB-303 (that sounds even somewhat similar) with presets and USB/MIDI. Hell, they could even throw in a crude VST pattern/editor..................for $500 USD.

I personally think they're a gaggle of dumbf**ks not to. And I don't wanna hear the "we're a small niche market and they won't sell enough" crap. I think the success of the Monotron/tribe and DSI (+ others) has blown that theory off the map.
Quote
1
#77
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #77
Lives for gear
 
golden beers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Oh, so you've heard it? Awesome! Please tell us more about the sound, I'd love an actually "by the ears" review.

-a
+1

also there's no reason sm should = worse tone.. the electrons don't care how you built it. an 100mf cap from the 70s does the same thing as an smt 100mf cap from 2012
#78
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #78
Lives for gear
 

nice review Nawax, looks like we missed each other yesterday (i went just before closure) and yes masterwave is sold out, although he might sell off the demo unit.. anyways i agree with everything you said, only spent limited time on it but was generally impressed although indeed it misses a bit of that "liquid" texture that clones never seem to match. i'm not going to sell off my 303 but might add this for gigging..
#79
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #79
Lives for gear
 
schmuck's Avatar
thanks for the feedback nawax and xanax (lol).

Doesn't seem to be that bad after all...they should offer fully pimped devil fishes now! That would be a very good justification to buy one

Edit: to maintain the suspicious-git attitude:
- those who quote devil fish prices compared to this one should calculate the modifications into it
- "sold out" can mean a lot....how many? ten? twenty? two?
- twice I tried on the US or UK website, and could add it to the cart...= not sold out, is it?

I don't know, somehow it smells still a bit fishy* to me...like an expensive xoxbox with great casing and a lot of internet fuss...?

*but maybe that's just me dreaming of a devil fish for cheap
#80
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #80
Sonic Hooligan
 
Llitsor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
there's no reason sm should = worse tone.. the electrons don't care how you built it. an 100mf cap from the 70s does the same thing as an smt 100mf cap from 2012
Yes & no. I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with surface mount parts either.
However, many caps from the 70's (or 80's for that matter, in the case of the 303) will barely be in tolerance now, if at all. Consider that most 303's likely still have all their original components in there.. Plus modern parts (surface mount or otherwise) due to manufacturing techniques and technologies have a much finer tolerance now than anything from 30 years ago ever did when new.

(while on the subject of clones)
Couple that with things like the original transistors that 303's used simply don't exist new anymore, nor are there real surface mount equivalents, means that any clone to be manufactured in quantity has to use substitute parts, and likely some significant changes to the circuit to accommodate the substitute parts. So it is highly unlikely to sound truly identical to the original. Not even if Roland themselves were to do it.

This is why (If you happen to be handy at DIY electronics, which I appreciate many here won't be) then I think the x0xb0x is a good way to go. The circuit is essentially identical. And although most are built with varying amounts of substitute components. At least you have the choice to use more authentic parts if you want to, and can source them. Hence why there are some great x0xb0x builds out there, but at least as many rather less than great ones too.
This likely also goes for clones like the Oakley TM3030, but I never built/tried one of those myself (it omits the sequencer, so I wasn't especially interested in it)

I hope my post isn't taken as a sledge hammer to a can of worms!
#81
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #81
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Oh, so you've heard it? Awesome! Please tell us more about the sound, I'd love an actually "by the ears" review.

-a
i heard all the other clones and even the xoxbox couldnt nail it despite the many original components..

its highly unlikely that its different this time.
#82
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #82
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
+1

also there's no reason sm should = worse tone.. the electrons don't care how you built it. an 100mf cap from the 70s does the same thing as an smt 100mf cap from 2012

there is no reason you know.. but there are plenty of reasons i know,,and probably even more others know...

so you are down to every cap sounds the same now ?
#83
2nd December 2012
Old 2nd December 2012
  #83
Lives for gear
 

This unreproducable sound of the original wouldn't be due to great mastering and great music perchance? Perhaps its more to talent than circuits...

B
Quote
1
#84
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #84
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
i heard all the other clones and even the xoxbox couldnt nail it despite the many original components..

its highly unlikely that its different this time.

Ooooooh riiiiigth. You've heard everything, of course.

ATTENTION ALL GEARSLUTZ! Once again, the great Audioconsult knows everything about everything... be advised about "the truth."

Again, I'm going to say, have YOU ACTUALLY heard the TT303 in person?

No?

Then maybe, juuuuust maybe, you're talking out yer arse... again.

But, please, tell us again why Ableton is evil and how presets are for morons and how you magically just KNOW the sound of gear without having ever heard it yourself.

-a
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5
#85
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #85
Lives for gear
 

The TB 303 had a 3 Pole Filter = 18 dB per Octave.
Info on TT hp: 4 Pole Filter.
#86
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #86
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jbuonacc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue monk View Post
The TB 303 had a 3 Pole Filter = 18 dB per Octave.
not quite...

EDIT:

The 18dB versus 24dB 'dispute'

[I nearly entitled this section 'debate', but that is not really a good word to use here—there simply is no debate: these filters are 4th-order, 4-pole, 24dB/octave attenuation low-pass filters, plain and simple.]

Start reading about the Roland TB-303 and it will not be long before you come across mention of its '18dB 3-pole lowpass filter'—apparently even Roland themselves described the filter as having these properties. A similar story could also be told of the early EMS filter. One can only guess at the motives of both Roland and EMS for doing so: high on the list would be that this reasonably well describes the behaviour of the filter, in that the transition from the passband to stopband starts earlier, and lasts longer than, the (then) more-usual 4-pole filter (such as the Moog transistor ladder), so that the 'corner' in the frequency response is altogether a less pronounced affair (comparison plots and animations); another reason might be to try and highlight the fact that these filters are different from the competition's filters, and hence by implication, better in some way; less likely is the idea that they would want the filters to be seen as different from the Moog ladder from the patent-infringement point of view (one would expect patent lawyers to be better informed than to be taken in by this). But whatever the reasons, these filters simply are not 18dB 3-pole filters: by all means they could be described as behaving more like 18dB/octave, rather than 24dB/octave, in the main region in which they are used (this could be said of many other filters though, yet isn't), but they simply cannot escape the fact that they are 4th-order, 4-pole, 24dB/octave filters, and calling them anything else is at best misleading, and at worse, just plain incorrect.
#87
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #87
digital ears love analog
 
Rogue Ai's Avatar
It's a 4-pole that sounds more like 18db than 24.
#88
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #88
Lives for gear
 

Why does this argument get so much oxygen? Its sounds great. What else do you want?

Everyone wanted the Moog filter sound and couldn't legally copy it. But some of the legal ripoffs actually have a life of their own. And they sound great.

B
#89
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #89
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
I use to want a TB-303, but could never bring myself to spending near a thousand or more for one (years ago prices). I like the concept of x0xb0x. If you can find a good builder that is passionate of the 303 sound, you can have something better than a TB-303, IMO.
the xoxbox is absolute crap in relation to a real 303.. it sounds hard and the sequencer is a bad joke
Quote
1
#90
3rd December 2012
Old 3rd December 2012
  #90
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Ooooooh riiiiigth. You've heard everything, of course.

ATTENTION ALL GEARSLUTZ! Once again, the great Audioconsult knows everything about everything... be advised about "the truth."

Again, I'm going to say, have YOU ACTUALLY heard the TT303 in person?

No?

Then maybe, juuuuust maybe, you're talking out yer arse... again.

But, please, tell us again why Ableton is evil and how presets are for morons and how you magically just KNOW the sound of gear without having ever heard it yourself.

-a
it already sounds harsh on the youtube clip.. new oberheim sem versus old one.. the components in the 303 that are responsible for the sweet resonance are expensive and not available anymore.. a xox box with same circuit and components except this few mentioned one in the powersupply sounds totally different..

when you rebuild the original power supply from vintage parts it still sounds different because the board layout is different...

sorry.. after so many experiments i have done to make a xoxbox sound like a 303...

i ve an educated opinion that ist unlikely that they got it.. and the youtube video seems to support that "theory".
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