I make my own sounds from scratch all the time for all my music. The first thing I usually do to try out a new synth is create an EP patch, this kind of sound ALWAYS gives me a good look into the envelopes and ADSR parameters. To be honest, I'm not really militant on this, I don't even force myself to try and come up with a new sound everytime, it's just something that happens no matter how I try to avoid it (not that I try to do that either :P). To me it's very simple: I have absolutely NO PATIENCE to scroll through presets, and if I actually find a sound I like I usually (and strangely unconsciously) try to recreate it myself (I'm the type of person who's answer is usually: "hey I can do that!!").
Again, this is not some kind of rule I have imposed on myself, I got into synths cause I wanted to create unearthly sounds of my own, even if they weren't musically useful, I just wanted to make sounds "from outer space" and nothing else really; it was only afterwards that I started to use them as musical instruments; thing is, by that time I had already figured out what I wanted to sound like exactly, and as the years go by, that sound becomes even more defined (making finding useful presets nearly impossible) therefore creating my own sounds to me is actually a building block for writing music that relies on electronic textures. Some will say that the actual song is more important, and I see the value on that; but it's very exiting to write a tune and give it new life with a synth patch that you created specifically for it, because it becomes not only your song, but also your sound.
You remind me of me.
I make my own sounds without even trying these days.
However I had to work very hard once upon a time to build on this skill. It was certainly nothing which happend over night.
I was never ever happy with just using sounds on board, and I said whoever made this sound is awesome kudos to him or her but hell I am going to make a better sound.
After 10 years at working at it, I am happy to say that I am glad I did, as I enjoy the music making process so much more. It also feels good when my buddies remark wow that sound it hot, or someone listening to my track says I like that sound, I kind of smile and nod yeah I made that.....lol
__________________ Techno sounds better on a step Sequencer.
Yeah if you use a ton of presets, then you deserve to be flayed alive on youtube...I know some kids that totally just layer loops from sample CD's and then release them and get in the Beatport top 100. Saying that, I also know a lot of big name DJs that get people to write all their tracks for them... is there anything worse than that?
Ultimately, like most deceptions, you have to answer to yourself...
Are you an artist or are you a hijacking, fraudulent faker?
So then you understand my point no?
You recently said in the other thread who the hell cares if you use a preset, but now you state that if you use a ton of presets you deserve to be flamed. Sorry but you leave me feeling slightly confused with your contradictions.
My OP is actually a little more then standard, it is a reasonable debate given we all do the same thing here and given the market is flooded with presets I thought it would make an interesting conversation to see what others are up to.
Sounds is sound, if it works, it works... It's about the music you MAKE with the sound, regardless of where it came from. The rest of academic masterbation.
If an artist paints a masterpiece, is it less of a masterpiece if he didn't mix his own paint?
Some do. Some don't. The point is, who the feck cares? And if you do, maybe you're worried about the wrong thing... try focusing on your music.
And none of this would bother me a bit, except for a few folks who feel the need to impose some set of rules and judgement on what is supposed to be a free and creative process... kinda makes ya wonder about those people.
This thread desperately needs the presence of more young folks who don't give a damn, and a few less old codgers who care too much.
why does it always have to be "young open minded" versus "old stuck-in-his-ways"? im not young but i dont give a godamn if i or anyone else uses presets (straight analoguish pads layered with classic rompler pads was my secret recipe for years). ive known a lot of young people set within rigid boundaries of whats "cool" or "acceptable" just as i know older creative types still willing to forget the rules when necessary
why does it always have to be "young open minded" versus "old stuck-in-his-ways"? im not young but i dont give a godamn if i or anyone else uses presets (straight analoguish pads layered with classic rompler pads was my secret recipe for years). ive known a lot of young people set within rigid boundaries of whats "cool" or "acceptable" just as i know older creative types still willing to forget the rules when necessary
Yup I am 36 and started creating patches 10 years ago.
I guess I am old then.
Now where are those reading glasses.
Because of the instruments that I use, presets are pretty much non existent. Hence each new idea I have starts with close to a week of sound development, before I start writing. Most of the time, I tend to have an idea in my head, I will plunk it down in midi using some sort of softsynth, and then just start subbing parts out to my system.
I enjoying creating my own patches, I feel I excel at pads/strings and brass stuff the most. The majority of stuff I use requires me to either a photo of the settings or remember the general gist of the sound.
Because of the instruments that I use, presets are pretty much non existent.
Yep. That's the easiest way to "get over it" quickly: leave oneself without an alternative. The synths I use most often either never had presets to begin with, or only had a handful (most of which were useless to me).
My Prophet-10 for example, without MIDI, and with an obsolete, non-functioning, irreparable digital storage drive, will never see the factory presets again because there is simply no way to load them into memory. I would need to dial them in by hand one by one using the patchsheets from the users manual (which, by the way, is a GREAT way to learn). Won't ever happen.
I know there are others here who also love that feeling of erasing any old patches/presets in memory. On my Little Phatty, I get a cheap thrill every time I get to write-over a factory preset in order to save one of my own.
Yep. That's the easiest way to "get over it" quickly: leave oneself without an alternative. The synths I use most often either never had presets to begin with, or only had a handful (most of which were useless to me).
My Prophet-10 for example, without MIDI, and with an obsolete, non-functioning, irreparable digital storage drive, will never see the factory presets again because there is simply no way to load them into memory. I would need to dial them in by hand one by one using the patchsheets from the users manual (which, by the way, is a GREAT way to learn). Won't ever happen.
I know there are others here who also love that feeling of erasing any old patches/presets in memory. On my Little Phatty, I get a cheap thrill every time I get to write-over a factory preset in order to save one of my own.
why does it always have to be "young open minded" versus "old stuck-in-his-ways"? im not young but i dont give a godamn if i or anyone else uses presets (straight analoguish pads layered with classic rompler pads was my secret recipe for years). ive known a lot of young people set within rigid boundaries of whats "cool" or "acceptable" just as i know older creative types still willing to forget the rules when necessary
young open minded? would´nt that ultimately lead to a new music instead of 80 and 90´s remakes?
A lot of my synths don't HAVE presets! Other I might store my own presets and re-use them but rarely use factory presets although some basic ones can be a time saver to get you started.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Parsons
I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic.
I prefer to think of such things as "intelligent choices" rather than "rules". The end result is basically the same in that there are things I never do, and things I always do. But this way I can still feel a touch of blissful smugness at being so "open-minded".
Crufty I think whatever makes you happy.
For me using presets does not make me happy.
It also good to hear you are using a combination, are you interested in samples also?
yes! samples are great. I love Kontakt as a sampler, M1, Omnisphere & BPM as romplers.
otb--it was often easier to make a new patch then 'find' the right patch. i totally get that.
itb--it is harder to make patches because of mouse poking. Presets are usually organized very well.
ReakTor, Diva and LuSH: I like to make my own patches, because they sound like real instruments to me, and I understand the synth layout. Massive & absynth break my aging brain--wtf are all these colors and buttons.
what kind of patches do you make Mr. Techno? Do you find yourself gravitating to a certain 'style' of patch?
my favorite kind of patches are ones that evolve over a few bars w/slow lfos. when the lfo picks up at just the right time, to me it is a nice subtle push 'get going music!', like when a jazz drummer gets bored and reminds the other players to pick up the pace!
I prefer to think of such things as "intelligent choices" rather than "rules". The end result is basically the same in that there are things I never do, and things I always do. But this way I can still feel a touch of blissful smugness at being so "open-minded".
come on..what is so bad about the word rules? we break laws on a daily basis like crossing the street by foot on a red traffic light but just the word rule is experienced as limitation of your freedom?
Or is that just the feel of guilt for breaking basic moral rules all the time, that makes allergic about the word?
So as more people copy other peoples music as more they dont like to hear about rules in music production?
A rule is something like a guiding advice.. violating rules might have consequences for your image or quality of production.. in some cases it might make your production more original, violating the rules of mainstream production is often a good thing.. but .. violating a no preset rule probably wont have that fx
in any case its not forbidden to break rules.. but to deny theire exsistance sounds so wild... the tiger of production... no rules..anarchy yeahhh
A lot of my synths don't HAVE presets! Other I might store my own presets and re-use them but rarely use factory presets although some basic ones can be a time saver to get you started.
i lately used a dx 7 preset from the original bank it was shiped with.. so cheasy that it was cool again.. and actually quiete original sound because nobody except of some 80´s rock bands have touched it ever since..
So it can happen that a preset gets a classic..
Its more actual genre specific presets that do suck
See the infamous reaktor dubtechno presets that once dominated the techno production for month.. one track like the other.. Such presets are bad because they make the outcome of whole subgenres generic..
come on..what is so bad about the word rules? we break laws on a daily basis like crossing the street by foot on a red traffic light but just the word rule is experienced as limitation of your freedom?
Or is that just the feel of guilt for breaking basic moral rules all the time, that makes allergic about the word?
Well, I wasn't being so serious with that statement, but since you asked the question I would say that the reason I might be "allergic" to rules as a composer is because for me music is mostly about "personal expression". The notion that there are rules coming from an outside authority which limit the range of this expression is enough to start me sneezing. But, as a musician in general, sometimes needing to interpret others' works, or transcribe, harmonize, etc. I'm of course quite comfortable with rules and even thankful they are there (because they make the job easier! Don't have to think! lol)
You are quite right: in virtually every aspect of our lives we are forced to follow rules. So the realm of personal expression, with oneself as the only authority, is holy ground as far as I'm concerned!
In any case, I don't know about Berlin, but where I live, most pedestrians still wait for the light to change green before crossing! And be prepared for some mean nasty looks from some of the older generation, or from parents of small children, if you cross on red around here! lol
Well, I wasn't being so serious with that statement, but since you asked the question I would say that the reason I might be "allergic" to rules as a composer is because for me music is mostly about "personal expression".
you are the guy with the classical background that has learned all theese harmonic rules just to break them now all the time for the sake of your personal expression..and of cause you are free to do so.. but that dont says that these harmonic rules dont exsist..
you are the guy with the classical background that has learned all theese harmonic rules just to break them now all the time for the sake of your personal expression..and of cause you are free to do so.. but that dont says that these harmonic rules dont exsist..
in case you even break them.. maybe they sit deep
Sure, rules exist. Never said they didn't. But the choice not to follow them can lead to good (and bad) consequences. It's always a risk, one which requires intelligence and good judgment. Had Claude Debussy followed all the rules of traditional harmony at the Conservatoire de Paris, the world would have lost a treasure trove of great music.
I doubt he ever argued "rules don't exist" but obviously he questioned the need to follow them. The classic rules of harmony like "no parallel octaves" or "no parallel fifths" etc. are absurdly limiting. Same goes for some of Schoenberg's ideas of "weak progressions" which should be avoided. There are tremendous bodies of great music which would not exist if everyone adhered to such rules.
With that said, I've never particularly cared for the cliche motto "Rules are made to be broken" because it's kind of stupid, actually when you stop to think about it. They aren't made to be broken: they exist for a reason. But one is still free to break them, if he is willing to accept the consequences.
Anyway, that's a good point about rules "sitting deep". There are no doubt a lot of rules I follow without even being conscious I'm following them. Still, I think it's important to understand why a "rule" exists in the first place, and understand the consequences of breaking it. Discovering for oneself why a particular rule makes sense deepens ones understanding a lot more than simply "following the rules." And it is most often by breaking them that one makes that discovery. Which brings me back to my idea of "intelligent choice."
That's incorrect. The real rule is that tracks must make use of at least one preset sound at a time and preset grooves are a must.
Sheesh, get it right, man.
??? cant help you when you dont help yourself...but as a fan of one of the most dreadfull electronic acts out there, what shall i say, good taste helps but cant be bought... opposite to presets
what is false..sure you can break rules..wheter thats beneficial or not you will find out soon enough and the process is called learning..from which new rules might emerge...
there is not much to learn from presets aslong you dont try to break them and do some own
what is false..sure you can break rules..wheter thats beneficial or not you will find out soon enough and the process is called learning..from which new rules might emerge...
there is not much to learn from presets aslong you dont try to break them and do some own
You're right. He did argue that. Forgot about that quote:
“There are no rules: pleasure is the law”
What a bold statement! Love it!
No wonder I dig that guy's music so much!
In any case, as a rational human being, if backed into a corner, I still doubt he would press the issue and insist they literally do not exist because obviously they do. They simply don't all need to be followed so long as one understands the consequences.
__________________ "Any opinions above are worth exactly what you paid for them." Anonymous
"If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward. Thomas Edison
Who gives a ****, its the result that counts. I'd rather spend "days" making a killer tune not a ****ing bass patch.... though I have sometimes.
Lots of people are making music for film, tv, etc and they are using sample libraries exclusively. I know a few and they are damn good at what they do.
As if all you don't like the hundred tracks made with the Solid Bass preset...
Get off your high horses and make some music.
.
__________________
“Music is my religion" - Hendrix
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and nothing else really; it was only afterwards that I started to use them as musical instruments; thing is, by that time I had already figured out what I wanted to sound like exactly, and as the years go by, that sound becomes even more defined (making finding useful presets nearly impossible) therefore creating my own sounds to me is actually a building block for writing music that relies on electronic textures. Some will say that the actual song is more important, and I see the value on that; but it's very exiting to write a tune and give it new life with a synth patch that you created specifically for it, because it becomes not only your song, but also your sound.
