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ACHISWELL
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#1
12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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More Q's about the 808

I have a couple of questions about the 808.
Firstly, could someone explain how to use the pre-scale settings?
Either I'm doing something wrong or it's not functioning.

Secondly, If I buy a 909 would it cut out the need to use a DIN sync/Midi converter to sync the tempo to other synths?

Basically, 808 > (din out) > 909 > (midi out) > synth.

cheers.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHISWELL View Post
I have a couple of questions about the 808.
Firstly, could someone explain how to use the pre-scale settings?
Either I'm doing something wrong or it's not functioning.

Secondly, If I buy a 909 would it cut out the need to use a DIN sync/Midi converter to sync the tempo to other synths?

Basically, 808 > (din out) > 909 > (midi out) > synth.

cheers.
While in pattern write, hold down the red button (labeled pre-scale) and select the scale with the switch.
As for other question, I'm not sure if 909 actually converts DIN sync to MIDI.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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The 909 does convert sync to midi ! but I'd be worried how the synth would match up with the 808 if the chain is 808 din out so it's the master then the 909 has to convert the sync to midi then the synth gets slaved to the 909 I think the timing would be late on the synth.
ACHISWELL
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
The 909 does convert sync to midi ! but I'd be worried how the synth would match up with the 808 if the chain is 808 din out so it's the master then the 909 has to convert the sync to midi then the synth gets slaved to the 909 I think the timing would be late on the synth.
hmmmm. well im gonna get a 909 anyway (it wasn't an expensive alternative to a converter box lol)
will just have to see how it runs. It could be that the delay adds character (however i'm not sure) ?

are these things ok being hooked up directly with just a cable? or will i need soem sort of transformer/go-between device?
ACHISWELL
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
While in pattern write, hold down the red button (labeled pre-scale) and select the scale with the switch.
As for other question, I'm not sure if 909 actually converts DIN sync to MIDI.
ahh yes, i have done it.
but im not quite sure what it's doing?

its changed speed?
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Going other direction...
I've used din sync IN on the 808 from a Novation Drumstation as a MIDI to Sync converter. I had to start the master MIDI sequencer (MPC) a few times to get it to sync right. I've since put in a CHD TR-808 MIDI kit. It works great.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHISWELL View Post
ahh yes, i have done it.
but im not quite sure what it's doing?

its changed speed?
Right. That means it is working. You must have switched it from 4/4 to 2/2, which is cut time. If you switch to 3/4, you will have 3 quarter notes per bar, or 12 even steps per measure. Old drum machines don't really have many options when it comes to time signatures.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
Right. That means it is working. You must have switched it from 4/4 to 2/2, which is cut time. If you switch to 3/4, you will have 3 quarter notes per bar, or 12 even steps per measure. Old drum machines don't really have many options when it comes to time signatures.
Ahh so i'm not restricted to 4/4 time signature?
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12th November 2012
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I have the CHD TR-808 midi kit as well but I'm actually syncing via Sync Gen II these days.

I believe I read somewhere the x0xb0x box will output DIN sync while taking in Midi Sync but I have not tried this so you may want to do your own research. If you're interested in a 303 emulator that might be a good option.
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12th November 2012
Old 12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHISWELL View Post
Ahh so i'm not restricted to 4/4 time signature?
Nope. You have 4/4 and 3/4, plus cut time for each.
ACHISWELL
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12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessem View Post
I have the CHD TR-808 midi kit as well but I'm actually syncing via Sync Gen II these days.

I believe I read somewhere the x0xb0x box will output DIN sync while taking in Midi Sync but I have not tried this so you may want to do your own research. If you're interested in a 303 emulator that might be a good option.

I'm not a 303 guy in all honesty.

thanks anyway
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12th November 2012
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i'd be careful on what you are syncing to that 808 master clock as i did this once:

808>909>cubase.

the timing is all over the place. if you are just running outboard then you may be ok, but trying to sync your daw to it (if that is what you intend) will be tough.
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12th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHISWELL View Post

Basically, 808 > (din out) > 909 > (midi out) > synth.
this won't work, when the 909 is din sync slaved the midi out becomes inactive. also the 909 doesn't convert din signal to midi, unlike the 707 which does (i initially bought mine as a din2midi converter). TR-909 does have 2 midi outs so you could set is as master and have one port going through a midi2din converter slaving the 808 and on the other port sequencing your synth
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12th November 2012
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i must be remembering things wrong (it has been about 10 years) because i could have sworn that we had the 808 as master with the 909 behind it and then cubase. i guess it was the 909 as master, then 808, then cubase using dinsync out and midi out. i guess it was the 909s sequencer (or maybe the chain we had going) that was all over the place.
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13th November 2012
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I was pretty sure it could.. I can check with my friend when I'm over there he still has a 909 but from the manual it shows din sycn in with midi out and there is a youtube video showing a midi/din sync jam with 707/606/909/Miami & Bassline well there the 909 takes din sync from the miami and gives midi out to the bassline.
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13th November 2012
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mea culpa it works !
i simply forgot the 909 transmits midi data on channel 11..
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13th November 2012
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yeah, i could have sworn we used the 808 as master clock via dinsync to the 909, then midi to cubase. the only reason i remember it is because i recall watching the bpm in cubase and it was jumping all over the gaff.
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13th November 2012
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that's the catch, although yes it is technically possible to use that chain, you don't really want to have the 808 as master as it's jittery as hell and behaves better slaved imo..
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13th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
that's the catch, although yes it is technically possible to use that chain, you don't really want to have the 808 as master as it's jittery as hell and behaves better slaved imo..
i mentioned this in the drexciya thread... i wonder if he sequenced with the 808... ever try to mix that stuff? if not, he used a "loose" sequencer and i think that's part of the charm of his music.
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13th November 2012
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yea you may be on to something.. i've always felt my 808 kind of has a groove of it's own, and that somehow my 303 also sounds more alive when slaved to the 808 then when slaved to a rigid midi clock with midi/din converter .. obviously the 808 clock is loose/jittery but that just may be the secret weapon on certain productions like drexciya..problem is i want my tracks to be DJ friendly so that's a dilemna i guess but i am going to look further into the 808 master chain theory...
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13th November 2012
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I always hear people complaining of constant clock issues with the 909, in either case i'm not sure you'd want an 808 or 909 as a master. I sync them both to my kenton with a splitter. In combination with a sequencer that leaves midi clock running regardless of the start/stop status, that's the best way to go IMO. That way, the clock doesn't stop and you can still change patterns on the 808 and stuff. When din is plugged in, if the clock isn't running, the 808 stays in a kind of "hung" state, which is annoying. You can change the selected pattern, but it won't take effect until the next clock tick arrives...

My previous master was a rs7000, now it's the sequentix cirklon. Both leave the clock running when "midi stop" is sent. I was previously considering that big red "start/stop" button, I can't remember who makes it, there's also one by touchprone, basically all it does is emit midi start/stop, but doesn't effect the midi clock, for help with these old devices...As for software...I'm sure you could find some of that to do this too!
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14th November 2012
Old 14th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
yea you may be on to something.. i've always felt my 808 kind of has a groove of it's own, and that somehow my 303 also sounds more alive when slaved to the 808 then when slaved to a rigid midi clock with midi/din converter .. obviously the 808 clock is loose/jittery but that just may be the secret weapon on certain productions like drexciya..problem is i want my tracks to be DJ friendly so that's a dilemna i guess but i am going to look further into the 808 master chain theory...
most definitely... and that was the double edged sword you encountered when playing drexciya.. absolutely wonderful music with a fantastic groove, but a total nightmare to mix! i'm not saying it can't be done because i would pull one off occasionally (lol) but man, especially when playing out, i would get nervous if i wanted to mix a drexciya track in because i didn't want to trainwreck over a club system haha.

you should do a recording... one with the 808 driving the 303, then one with the 808 and 303 being controlled by a master sequencer and see if you hear the difference... same pattern, just different master clock.

and now that i have traktor, loading the drexciya waveforms in there clearly shows the bpm fluctuating all over the place. it would be cool to see your recordings in traktor, i could see the difference.

anywho, i don't mean to give you a homework assignment or anything

this was the case with lots of older stuff (mid-90s, etc)... i wonder what they were sequencing with. if it was an atari it was rock solid... but if they were using any of the older roland sequencers or the 808/909 to sequence it was just a nightmare to mix.
#23
14th November 2012
Old 14th November 2012
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Never had timing problems slaving the 808 to Encore Expressionist.. but Jomox Xbase09 the timing goes off after 30 bars or so... so something is definitely finicky about the 808 din sync... but I can guarantee at least the expressionist works for this
ACHISWELL
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15th November 2012
Old 15th November 2012
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loving these posts. very exciting
cant waitto get something to hook up to it and see what happens!

Korg MonoPoly and a Prophet 8 I think is on the order list for sure!

as a new owner of an 808 and hardwear, I'm still very uncertain about the world of DIN, MIDI and CV...
I have still yet to hook it up to anything.
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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would this mean the 808 naturally would be a bit wobboly played on it's own also?
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16th November 2012
Old 16th November 2012
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I highly recommend the CHD TR-808 MIDI retrofit. It is easy to install with a little bit of soldering experience and patience. The instructions are spot on. Only drilling is to put the LED indicator in the Start/stop switch, which is actually optional. The kit removes the original DIN jack and switch and replaces with a special jack that supports both MIDI and DIN, so you don't lose the DIN sync capabilities. The new three position switch toggles between DIN in/out and MIDI in. The kit even adds velocity sensitivity for volume when triggering from external controller. Actually, I believe the MIDI trigger function is the only thing that requires the soldering. I imagine that you can skip the soldering all together and just use the kit as a MIDI clock input for the sequencer, but don't quote me on that. The soldering portion just connects the kit to the triggers on each instrument. I did it on mine, but still mostly just use the 808's internal sequencer. The only negative to the CHD kit is that you need to use a computer to configure it, such as the MIDI channel. There isn't a button like that on the Kenton kit. I started a Lemur template so that I can configure it with my iPad, but that little project has been on the back burner.
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16th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak260 View Post
you should do a recording... one with the 808 driving the 303, then one with the 808 and 303 being controlled by a master sequencer and see if you hear the difference... same pattern, just different master clock.
i've done it and i do hear a difference although i haven't done a waveform comparison. would be interesting to find out for sure..

Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak260 View Post
and now that i have traktor, loading the drexciya waveforms in there clearly shows the bpm fluctuating all over the place. it would be cool to see your recordings in traktor, i could see the difference.
i'm a DJ myself and am well familiar with the difficulties of mixing in drexciya material i'll try and make a test pattern with the 303 slaved to the 808 and MPC60 with innerclock (almost sample accurate)
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