Jupiter 6 - Should I pull the trigger?

[audioconsult]

what is progressive metal? goa mosh?..

anyway.. i suggest a nord lead because its way smaller and run over a guitar amp it will sound analog enough.. really no use to carry analog monsters around with you on a music where you cant hear thedifference anyway..

dont waste a jupiter for heavy metal

the oberheim is maybe not bad because it looks big but dont weights much and has a very fine highend that might help it to cut thru again the guitars.

however. the nord lead is good to fight with guitars because of its clean sound that really grows on fx...and you get it for half the price what would leave budget for a monophon lead synth.. phantsastic for heavy meta would be probably a wasp or a pro one.. butthan again..

dont waste a pro one for heavy metal

[initself]

I would not take a Jupiter 6 out live. That's madness. Sample it.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by initself

I would not take a Jupiter 6 out live. That's madness. Sample it.

a sampler? however.. the nord wave is not too bad asa a live keyboard with a wide soundrange and a simple synth part.. maybe worth checking out.

wouldnt call it madness to take a jupiter on stage.. its road prooved.. but heavy and when it breaks you cant get a replacement .. its not so commonly around as junos..

[slippast]

I just listened to some Symphony X. I saw a guy playing a synth but couldn't actually pick it out in the mix. Crazy guitar skills though.

I think that the JP6 is a great synth, probably good for that style of music. The guitar and drums completely own those mixes so you don't want a synth that's going to compete. The JP6 is good that way. It does decent SFX and being from the DX7 era is able to do pretty good bell and chime tones too. Plus it'll do pads that don't fill up the bottom end like an Oberheim might. What I'd recommend is getting a decent EQ pedal so you can boost the bottom end when you need a larger pad. I hear people complain that the JP6 is thin sounding but that's what EQs are for. 10db at 120hz and you've got the big fat sound that everyone says is missing.

I may get shot for saying this but I have a Juno 106 and it's getting harder for me to justify owning it because the JP6 with an EQ can do anything the Juno does and a lot more. I've been able to recreate every patch I loved from the 106 on the Jupiter, I suspect you could do the same on a Juno 6/60. The only thing missing is the Chorus which an be faked pretty well. My 106 spends most of its time under wraps since I was able to effectively copy the Chorus on a DEP-5.

If you get the JP6 add in the extra cost of doing the Europa upgrade. It's worth it for anything in the studio. It basically makes the Jupiter 6 into a modern keyboard with a massively improved MIDI interface and brand new Arp system. The downside is that it creates a layer of complexity that might not be welcomed on a simple interface like the JP6.

Finally, get a great case for it (of course). I'm don't think I'd ever gig mine, but that's because I could never afford to replace it - prices are 5x what I paid a few years ago.

[Carey M]

I've taken my Jupe-6 out to a gig on a couple of occasions. Nobody handles it but me and I have a proper case for it... Regarding the OP's dilemma, I'd wait to see how the Polysix and Juno suit your music. Polysix and Jupiter-6 are definitely complementary synths in my experience. But you can get a lot of mileage from Polysix-Juno combo, at least in a classic hard rock context... An OB-X/Xa/8 would of course be killer.

Can't really comment on the Nord, but naturally on stage "true analogue" sound isn't that critical. Me taking my Jupe out to a gig is just for my own indulgence.

- CM

[clusterchord]

second the nord lead suggestion, for all lines that are supposed to stand out and fight with guitars. however, instead of JP6, you will still have enough dough left to pickup a Prophet600 or Polysic to add some tasty organic strings/pads beneath. again, i think a CEM based machine like Prophet600 will suit for these tasks much better.

nord 2x plus p600 are still cheaper than jp6 nowadays. you got enough left to add an analog delay pedal on nord or p600... its gonna help you a lot getting things glued within a heavier rock guitar setting.


i dont think JP6 is the right choice for this. and its fkin huge. otoh , if you did some EDM.. thats another story..

my 0.02






EDIT: thought i might add this> of all the analogs i tried with guitars, OBXa probably holds its place best.. esp if its going thru a nice transformer based pre.. for some subtle added focus/gritt.. i always record mine thru a Great River. and pair it with space echo.

in general, CEM synths like OBXA, JP6, MKS80 etc just LOVE processing. havent heard any other analog design that take it so well... be it flangers, phasers, ensembles,, overdrives.. tape echos.. you name it.

cheers

[Pro5]

I think the JP-6s are currently over-priced at around £2,000. If the one you are looking at is at least £500 less then perhaps it's 'worth' pulling the trigger.

If you have a P6 and a Juno you already have a lot of ground covered, pick up a JX-3P to get a bit of what extras the JP-6 would give you (sans VCOS) for very little cash and see how you get on? If you are lusting after a JP-6 nothing else will scratch the itch though, but your question is 'should I pull the trigger' which is something only you can answer when it comes to the emotional and financial aspects

Soundwise? I think the Polysix and Juno (or JX-3P) can do plenty already for far less cash, they may not look as sexy or be 'all in one' but you get more flavours with 2/3 discreet cheaper (but still great sounding) synths. IMO.

That said, I'd really like a JP-6 myself someday, but with prices going up it's unlikely, even if I had the cash I just couldn't justify it for a synth that is somewhat a 'marmite' synth, leaves a lot of people cold and isn't quite as sexy sounding as it's looks would suggest.


Call me a cheapskate but for me a JP-6 would have to be around £1200 for me to pull the trigger on it. And sadly I did miss out on one at that price last year (with a few most likely easily fixed gremlins esp after fitting europa) and that's my personal 'cut off' for a jupiter 6. What they are worth in the market isn't what they are worth to me, they have risen in price as Jupiter 8's hit stupid out of reach prices and people wanting the 'Jupiter fix' but when you look at what you are getting I think £1200 is a fair price, £1400 IF it is super mint with case and obviously well cared for - even that is pushing it imo, but that's vintage synth prices for you what fun!

[kirkelein]

OK, there are definitely some good points here.

Opinions seem to differ regarding the choice of the JP6 being the right one for the music I am making. Fighting with guitars, or blending in behind them are two very different tasks, and I'd like to do both. In a couple of years I'll probably want to have both a JP6 and an OB-Xa, but for now I'm looking for the optimal complement to my existing setup. Ju6+P6+???

I'm still leaning towards the JP6 and after that the OB-Xa.

I write the music so I make the rules, and I think I'd like to have synths in the centre just as much as the olde distorted guitars. That opens up for a bunch more ways to arrange it all, and will hopefully make for a distinct and original sound. This means I'm not going to be a strings+pad machine, or an 80's cheese factory, but rather a horrid bastard child of whatever sounds my machines can conjure.

I love, love, love my Juno, and this is a big part of why I'm reluctant to consider VAs. Being able to just power it up and turn some knobs for instant gratification is something I've never felt for a digital instrument, and this is valuable live too, as Carey pointed out.

I've not considered the Prophet 600, so I'll try to check that out. On first glance it doesn't seem quite as tasty as the jupe but of course it's cheaper and more common.
The JX-3P is nice but seems to miss several of the selling points of the JP6 for me (x-mod, unison). It also needs external control...

I'll try to find a Lead and a Wave somewhere to try them out, but I am sceptical. I'm sure that the sound in either one will be good enough live, but for home and studio use I'd bet the difference will be more than slight, both in terms of sound and of hands on control. The fact that the Nords only have 49 keys is a minus too.

£2000 is indeed a considerable sum, but as long as the instument retains its value, the actual cost of ownership won't be higher than what I'm willing to pay. The question is only whether it is the right instrument for me. Of course, as was pointed out, letting the impressions of the Polysix sink in for a few weeks can only be a good thing...

Thanks again for your input!

[flat earth]

I would seriously consider playing one in person if you can. Save being dissapointed in the long run.

I was btw.

OBXa is more limited for sure, but its sound is in another league imho.

[Pro5]

Originally Posted by kirkelein

The JX-3P is nice but seems to miss several of the selling points of the JP6 for me (x-mod, unison). It also needs external control...

True on the unison (even with the 3P KIWI super mod it's still DCO unison which isn't so hot vs VCO) I think you may find the polysix Unison very powerful btw!

However the 3P does have X-Mod + "metal" setting (kinda ring mod)

[kirkelein]

Originally Posted by Pro5

True on the unison (even with the 3P KIWI super mod it's still DCO unison which isn't so hot vs VCO) I think you may find the polysix Unison very powerful btw!

However the 3P does have X-Mod + "metal" setting (kinda ring mod)

Yeah, good point about the Polysix

I didn't know that about the JX-3P. I can't seem to find any audio-examples of it though...

Maybe a Matrix 6 and a JX-3P along with the Kiwi-controller could be fun, but I keep coming back to wanting a bigger beast that does it all. If it wasn't completely enormous I'd be considering the Matrix-12

Sadly polyphony and patch storage is important otherwise I'd just build a killer modular after getting the Polysix.

[Demokid]

Buy a OB-8 instead of a OB-Xa or JP6.

[BM0]

Originally Posted by Demokid

Buy a OB-8 instead of a OB-Xa or JP6.

Agreed.

In unison, OB-8 will rip through just as well as OB-Xa when it comes to leads. All OBies set to unison scream. OB-8 is a little lighter than OB-Xa for gigging, but it is still a beast.

[DesolationBlvd]

JP-6 and OB-8 are two of the best deals in big synths (under $3k and usually $2k).


JP-6's routing options gives it an edge over OB-8. Its sync is more powerful than OB-series, having a wider pitch sweep and also the ability to xmod at the same time as sync to increase the range even more.


OB-8's unison mode is head-and-shoulders above JP-6's. You can selectively enable or disable voices, and portamento, instead of being always-on or always-off, can be fingered for more expressive leads.

And of course, Oberheim has been trusted in hard rock and metal.


Both give you more options besides the basic 24dB lowpass filter. JP-6 adds bandpass and highpass modes, while OB-8 offers a 12dB slope with excellent resonance.


Basically, JP-6 gives you more sounds (and those sounds are probably more fitting for modern metal), but OB-8 has a higher quality sound to begin with.

[Diametro]

Originally Posted by Carey M

I've taken my Jupe-6 out to a gig on a couple of occasions. Nobody handles it but me and I have a proper case for it... Regarding the OP's dilemma, I'd wait to see how the Polysix and Juno suit your music. Polysix and Jupiter-6 are definitely complementary synths in my experience. But you can get a lot of mileage from Polysix-Juno combo, at least in a classic hard rock context... An OB-X/Xa/8 would of course be killer.

Can't really comment on the Nord, but naturally on stage "true analogue" sound isn't that critical. Me taking my Jupe out to a gig is just for my own indulgence.

- CM

+1 ... It's built like a tank ... A little risky but only if something terrible happens to it ...

[Diametro]

Just get it ... for a decent price ... and you may end up making money if you sell it down the road ...

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by BM0

Agreed.

In unison, OB-8 will rip through just as well as OB-Xa when it comes to leads. All OBies set to unison scream. OB-8 is a little lighter than OB-Xa for gigging, but it is still a beast.

i dont like unison on OBXA (or on JP8), its too phasey and has over-bearing interference... not in a good way - because there is no unison detune, so voices are too close. otoh OB8, JP6 and MKS80 can do unison detune, and sound great doing it, esp MKS80. ah and A6 too.

that being said, i dont see the fascination with unison leads.. just from sound aesthetic POV... i always prefer cutting thru with simpler 1 or 2vco sound thats tweaked to pierce.. and done on a machine that means business. compared, unisons can sometimes require more space in freq range to be "understood" in a forest of snare hits, cymbal crashes and guitar/bas s overdrives.. and then if you raise the level it suddenly takes over too much. ymmv , of course.

[BM0]

For leads, it really just comes down to the synth. Monos, like the Minimoog, are typically calibrated to do leads well. Polys aren't typically good at leads unless you put them in unison mode. Even when you tweak a poly in poly mode, they typically lack the drive you want in a lead, unless you add overdrive or process the output, which is completely acceptable.

^You have a point about unison without voice detune. What I also like about the OB-8 is that you can easily turn voices off if the sound is overbearing.

[natrixgli]

Just get a Mopho and a EH Pog2. Save yourself lots of money

[kirkelein]

I think I'd prefer better options for sync and FM, so in that regard the JP6 wins. But at the end of the day it all comes down to sound. The obies do sound sweeter by default, but I also like the harsh tone of the JP6. Right now I think I'm partial to the JP...

Getting a sweet enough deal could potentially tip me over in either direction. Should they be going for £2000 roughly, both of them? I'm not interested in what they went for in '08 or even a year ago, I'm sad to say

A little bit more bombardment with your revered (no sarcasm) opinions and maybe I'll be able to make a decision. You've been great help so far

Another thought: It seems I was under the false impression that the M12 is bigger than the OBs. It's not, and actually lighter than any of them. It doesn't seem to sound as fat than any of them though, and this, paired with tremendous prices and less knobs, makes it seem less attractive as an alternative, even though it offers tremendous flexibility.

[kirkelein]

Originally Posted by natrixgli

Just get a Mopho and a EH Pog2. Save yourself lots of money

Sadly I need lots of keys and voices. And I don't really like non-rack/non-keyboard, modules

[slippast]

Based on what you're writing why not try something like a Waldorf Q or perhaps a Waldorf XTk. If you're looking for nasty and harsh they can definitely get you there. The Jupiter can do harsh, especially with unison detune and the cross modulation/sync functions but it can't be 'scary' like I've heard from some Waldorf gear (like my Microwave Rev1). Watch the Waldorf Q video from Jexus on Youtube...any of his videos for that matter.

Side note: if harsh/insane is what you're after you should hear some of the madness you can get from the transwave engine on an ASR-10. I know, weird, right? You can coax seriously demonic sounds from that machine. I've never seen a demo of the ASR-10 that reveals its true character, but in practice it's transwave engine is the craziest sounding synth I've ever heard. The sample disk called 'art of the transwave' is where you can crack the cover on that transwaves in the ASR.

edit: the transwave sounds of the ASR make the Scrillex dubstep growles sound silly.

I know, I'm way out in space, but I'm just throwing out some other options. Analog isn't always the best solution...

[sirdss]

Love my J6...I do feel that the thinness that people describe this synth havering is one of the strong points. With analog polysynths they seem to take too much space in a mix and I'm always doing a lot of EQing and sidechaining to make them fit in just right...especially the OB, Polymoog and Jupiter 4. The Prophet 5 has always been a synth that seemed better to write tracks around also. They all sound great by themselves...and I could see that it be great in a live band scenario when they were first introduced but depending on the music you're making you might want to take hugeness into consideration!

The highpass and bandpass filters in the J6 make this pretty special and useful for recording(get the Europa kit too) and it can get pretty huge and wooly with the right settings especially with some stereo spreading and slight modulation going through a UA-610 or other tube pre's.

[kirkelein]

Originally Posted by slippast

[Words go here]

Thanks for the tips! The ASR-10 seems a little too crazy at the moment, but I really like the Waldorfs. If opting for something along that line I think I need too do a lot more research on the alternatives there, which are mainly Nord Lead the Viruses, as far as I know (?). Right now tough, although I am looking for harsh I'm also looking for the sweet dual osc analogue sounds, but if I get a JP6 now I really think something like a Q would be a great next step. It'd be either that or a properly mental analogue mono.

Originally Posted by sirdss

Love my J6... [...]

I'm considering getting a bit of scrap to practice some soldering on and then installing the CHD-midi kit on my Juno. Would I be able to proceed with installing the Europa mod myself after that, or is that too complex? I've only done soldering a few times before, with my dad, on an RC-car and my old guitar, when I was like 13...

Also I've not gotten any real dismissal of the P5 for my purposes. It looks fragile, but that's the only con that I can think of. The older models being unreliable, of course... It's hard to tell from the Youtube clips, but it seems to cabable of a different sound pallette, that doesn't appeal to me like the JP or the obies. Five voices is one too few, and it's expensive... OK, so maybe I answered my own question here.

[Diametro]

Originally Posted by sirdss

Love my J6...I do feel that the thinness that people describe this synth havering is one of the strong points. With analog polysynths they seem to take too much space in a mix and I'm always doing a lot of EQing and sidechaining to make them fit in just right...especially the OB, Polymoog and Jupiter 4. The Prophet 5 has always been a synth that seemed better to write tracks around also. They all sound great by themselves...and I could see that it be great in a live band scenario when they were first introduced but depending on the music you're making you might want to take hugeness into consideration!

The highpass and bandpass filters in the J6 make this pretty special and useful for recording(get the Europa kit too) and it can get pretty huge and wooly with the right settings especially with some stereo spreading and slight modulation going through a UA-610 or other tube pre's.

That is true ... Horses for courses ...

[FabGear]

The Jupiter 6 is my first choice for live gigs. On occasion I may supplement it with a Juno 60 or OB8. The Jupiter is easy to use on the fly and has a bright sound which cuts through. The OB8 has a fatter, smoother sound which I also like a lot but for me the Jupiter comes first for live work.

[Ghosted]

Originally Posted by FabGear

The Jupiter 6 is my first choice for live gigs. On occasion I may supplement it with a Juno 60 or OB8. The Jupiter is easy to use on the fly and has a bright sound which cuts through. The OB8 has a fatter, smoother sound which I also like a lot but for me the Jupiter comes first for live work.

I would never take my JP-6 or any other vintage gear I own to a gig. It always gets destroyed. I always sample everything I'm going to use live into an old beat up Emax II sampler.

[harrypurser]

The JP-6 is misunderstood. If you compare a Telecaster to a Les Paul, you might say it lacked depth or richness. But put either in a mix and it's horses for courses.

IMO, the JP-6 responds very well to processing. I find that an additional LPF or high-shelving cut can work wonders for pads, because the filter leaves a lot up top. I think this is a better 'go-to' than the bass boost that many recommend.

[kirkelein]

I got one!

A very pretty example and with Europa, completely recapped and new pots and all sorts of stuff, done a few years ago. Not cheap (20K SEK), but still a decent price as far as I've been able to tell. Everything is expensive these days anyway.


I've two small questions though.

First is, how is the keybed supposed to feel? I was expecting it to be the exact same as my Juno-6, but this one is feeling a bit more loose to the touch. Very similar, but slightly sloppier. The guy said he had changed all the bushings. This isn't a problem, but I'm curious, and I especially liked the feel of the Juno. Of course it could equally likely be the Juno that is the anomaly in this case.

Second, there seems to be a miscalibration with the x-mod, in that it does not follow the keys so as to provide a consistent sound over the whole keyboard. I managed to fiddle with the x-mod pots to align them between voices but the keyfollow must also be something that can be adjusted? I looked but didn't find anything and the service manual was not too helpful.

Anyway, I really like the sounds I'm hearing and I can't wait to dive further into it. I think it will fit me perfectly. Thanks everyone for the help in making my decision.