And this is it. Ableton Live 9 and PUSH

[psykx]

So your saying that live is at fault because you don't organise your sessions into scenes? you can't mean you need to render everything to audio?

besides which you can drop in single tracks by expanding a session in the browser. (for when you only need those three clips)

[toddreloaded]

Wow, lots of good ideas here. Maybe the mods should send this thread to Ableton.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by psykx

So your saying that live is at fault because you don't organise your sessions into scenes? you can't mean you need to render everything to audio?

besides which you can drop in single tracks by expanding a session in the browser. (for when you only need those three clips)

i hate this claims that one is not using the program right when pointing to such extreme limitations.. your workaround is to archivate any project in form of exports of single scenes? why has ableton allowed to import tracks from other projects but not scenes? isnt that a little odd on a program that is scene/pattern based? was easier to implement to just do it for tracks.. But to make the program good its maybe necessary to do a little mroer than the easiest way..

a single track that holds 20 clips is one where i need to erase 19 of them after that.. also you need to know exactly what the tracks are doing.. i dont know that from a session i did last year. ..or 5 years ago...i only know that this is a session with some hot sequences inside i wanna have for the gig tomorrow.. and than i need 1 hour to get that together? and for the other 9 sessions i want to look into aswell?.. so after 10 hours i ve compiled what would have needed me in logic just 1 hour or less thanks to the ability to have as much projects open simultaniously as you want...?

sorry.. thats one of the weak spots of the program and the so called fix with the new ex and import functionality of L7 is just weak developed, a work around.. why on earth no scene import?

Just copy paste from another instance shouldnt be such a big deal... and that would be real comfort.. listen to the track and comfortably just copy paste clips and devices as needed into your live show file..
Quick and a perfect monitoring situation.. in ideal one could route from one instance to the other and just bounce what you need with fx direcztly into the new session file.. ..while having booth sessions in sync...or beeing able to crossfade between to sessions windows.. you wouldnt need to compile at all..just work with the original sessions on stage... ..that would be nice..



The new file format wher the clips are hidden in a folder that sits in a folder that sits in a folder that sits in folder..also dont helps to speed up things..

hope the new browser in L9 helps to deal with that click orgy

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by toddreloaded

Wow, lots of good ideas here. Maybe the mods should send this thread to Ableton.

ableton are advice repellent.. THey have this and more on a regular base on the wishlist.. but goes a bit unedrer there inbetween the 2000 time wish to have an eq with an analyzer window.. ..now that really helps

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by audioconsult

i hate this claims that one is not using the program right when pointing to such extreme limitations.. your workaround is to archivate any project in form of exports of single scenes? why has ableton allowed to import tracks from other projects but not scenes? isnt that a little odd on a program that is scene/pattern based? was easier to implement to just do it for tracks.. But to make the program good its maybe necessary to do a little mroer than the easiest way..

a single track that holds 20 clips is one where i need to erase 19 of them after that.. also you need to know exactly what the tracks are doing.. i dont know that from a session i did last year. ..or 5 years ago...i only know that this is a session with some hot sequences inside i wanna have for the gig tomorrow.. and than i need 1 hour to get that together? and for the other 9 sessions i want to look into aswell?.. so after 10 hours i ve compiled what would have needed me in logic just 1 hour or less thanks to the ability to have as much projects open simultaniously as you want...?

sorry.. thats one of the weak spots of the program and the so called fix with the new ex and import functionality of L7 is just weak developed, a work around.. why on earth no scene import?

Just copy paste from another instance shouldnt be such a big deal... and that would be real comfort.. listen to the track and comfortably just copy paste clips and devices as needed into your live show file..
Quick and a perfect monitoring situation.. in ideal one could route from one instance to the other and just bounce what you need with fx direcztly into the new session file.. ..while having booth sessions in sync...or beeing able to crossfade between to sessions windows.. you wouldnt need to compile at all..just work with the original sessions on stage... ..that would be nice..



The new file format wher the clips are hidden in a folder that sits in a folder that sits in a folder that sits in folder..also dont helps to speed up things..

hope the new browser in L9 helps to deal with that click orgy

If you're going to use this thread to complain about the most arbitrary stuff at least form real sentences. These paragraphs of ellipses that are basically massive run-on sentences are seriously giving me a migraine, it's just unreadable.

[login]

This thread has serious Troll Saturation Compensation problems

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by login

This thread has serious Troll Saturation Compensation problems

Maybe that's the curse Ableton has just now... Me thinks due to years and years of high expectations never materializing.

[crufty]

Originally Posted by psykx

I think that a lot of the complaints about ableton are simply from people not understanding how to go about things.



if you want multiple instruments running off the same midi, use an instrument rack not grouping.

the reverse: multiple tracks feeding one instrument (having individual midi lines --say kick, snare, hat--per vst drum note). or multi-timbural vst.

it would be cool if i group those midi lanes, that i am presented with a merged lane that i could then modify (similar to photoshop layers, w/layer 1 being midi clip 1, layer 2, midi clip 2, etc).

same thing with group in group: open hat, close hat -> hat group -> drum group

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Maybe that's the curse Ableton has just now... Me thinks due to years and years of high expectations never materializing.

the curse is that the majority of the userbase just dont knows anything else than working with ableton and are therefore blind to the weak spots.

As mentioned above sequence creation is a weakspot.. but one that appears to people that come from fruity loops or cubase way more than to the typical ableton user that takes its sequences in form of premade loops of sample cd´s.

Remember the super positive resonance bitwigs anouncement recieved?
And that just for answering to age old user wishes from the ableton forum. Wishes Ableton themself just consequently ignored.

Finally they gave in on clip automation as we can see in the L9 announcement.. user wish No1, ignored since almost decade..
Now possible..
And i guess that is a direct answer to bitwig.

One can only hope that the bitwigs have a success because competition is the only factor that can change abletons artificially slowed down development to the better.

[Fifstar]

Personally I'd rather not buy Bitwig as it seems to complety lack any original ideas and concepts. On the other hand, if Ableton keeps sitting on their ass (and it seems like they do) and keeps ignoring the wishes of their userbase, maybe they deserve that a copycat steals their thunder.

[SWAN808]

the more I read about Bitwig the more I feel excited - 'if' they can deliver. It seems a lot like Live but with a lot more std DAW features.

[Lowbie]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

the more I read about Bitwig the more I feel excited - 'if' they can deliver. It seems a lot like Live but with a lot more std DAW features.

And a good interface! If they deliver a good product Ableton is in serious trouble.

But man, they are in beta test for like 1 year and no more actual news since then. Nobody ever claimed to be a beta tester, and not even a screenshot leaked. It is like it does not exist.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by Fifstar

Personally I'd rather not buy Bitwig as it seems to complety lack any original ideas and concepts. On the other hand, if Ableton keeps sitting on their ass (and it seems like they do) and keeps ignoring the wishes of their userbase, maybe they deserve that a copycat steals their thunder.

copycat? ableton have copied a big part of theire concept from opcode and the bitwig guys are former ableton developers.. so its not such an outside job.. they also know from the inside what ableton users missed in the program and seem to adress that from version one..

It is possible to make a more musical interactive program than live as this sticks to its base layout without having made any further developments on that realtime interaction approach... just adding age old daw functionality.. and max for live.. what holds fantastic possebilitys for max patchers but is actually just the opposite from a spontaneous musical instrument approach that made live intersting in the first place..

So they are rather mooving in the opposite direction than bitwig..what makes bitwig more intersting for me .. just.. even when they have the better coders its quiete a way to deliver a full functional daw.. even without beeing hold back by ableton business tactics that needs some time....

however possible that they reach in 3 years what ableton needed 10 years for.. i definitely will check it out.. hope they try to conquer their market share with a low introduction price-. thanks to the ableton upgrade my budget for software is limited now..

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by Lowbie

And a good interface! If they deliver a good product Ableton is in serious trouble.

But man, they are in beta test for like 1 year and no more actual news since then. Nobody ever claimed to be a beta tester, and not even a screenshot leaked. It is like it does not exist.

ableton is the best selling daw on the planet with a userbase that takes every beating from the side of the company with a smile.. Do´nt think that any competition can kill them. But maybe it can kill their arrogance and force them to do better than lousy...

Only way for bitwig to crack that monopole is to be better in all regards or at least in many.. just a different look wont do it..
Not so easy... but they would´nt have founded an own company when they would´nt had the idea that this is possible.

[slick easy]

Where is the pitch bend and mod wheel on PUSH?

Where is the retina support? Seriously any program released in the upcoming year need to conform to high resolution displays.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by slick easy

Where is the pitch bend and mod wheel on PUSH?

Where is the retina support? Seriously any program released in the upcoming year need to conform to high resolution displays.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

has one of theese ribbon style touch faders like the tempest is using but way bigger.. looks like a good modulation input..

and why would any software need to support retsina displays? the ableton graphic is pretty rough .. wont make a big difference anyway.. Retsina support is really not especially urgent..


my juno 106 would benefit more from sysex support

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Lowbie

And a good interface! If they deliver a good product Ableton is in serious trouble.

But man, they are in beta test for like 1 year and no more actual news since then. Nobody ever claimed to be a beta tester, and not even a screenshot leaked. It is like it does not exist.

I dont really think Ableton will being trouble - they are established now.

THere isnt a huge amount of info - but maybe Bitwig had people sign NDA - its not unlikely. I did one for a product recently so I dont talk about it.

There is some info I read on the bitwig website including a magazine article. They have done a couple of walk thru videos...its not too bad...I guess we just have to wait. They ought to get it right and release something solid.

[Fifstar]

Originally Posted by audioconsult

copycat? ableton have copied a big part of theire concept from opcode and the bitwig guys are former ableton developers.. so its not such an outside job.. they also know from the inside what ableton users missed in the program and seem to adress that from version one..

It is possible to make a more musical interactive program than live as this sticks to its base layout without having made any further developments on that realtime interaction approach... just adding age old daw functionality.. and max for live.. what holds fantastic possebilitys for max patchers but is actually just the opposite from a spontaneous musical instrument approach that made live intersting in the first place..

So they are rather mooving in the opposite direction than bitwig..what makes bitwig more intersting for me .. just.. even when they have the better coders its quiete a way to deliver a full functional daw.. even without beeing hold back by ableton business tactics that needs some time....

however possible that they reach in 3 years what ableton needed 10 years for.. i definitely will check it out.. hope they try to conquer their market share with a low introduction price-. thanks to the ableton upgrade my budget for software is limited now..

What is opcode? Never heard about it and can't find anything with quick goodling.

That Bitwig is an inside job doesn't change that it's a copy, unless the guys behind bitwig also came up with some of Ableton's key concepts.

I don't doubt that it's possible to do a more muscial program than live, but I don't see that with Bitwig right know, it mainly seems to copy Ableton while fixing some of it's problems. Which is good if they pull it of properly (still a big if imo), but not original at all.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by Fifstar

What is opcode? Never heard about it and can't find anything with quick goodling.

That Bitwig is an inside job doesn't change that it's a copy, unless the guys behind bitwig also came up with some of Ableton's key concepts.

I don't doubt that it's possible to do a more muscial program than live, but I don't see that with Bitwig right know, it mainly seems to copy Ableton while fixing some of it's problems. Which is good if they pull it of properly (still a big if imo), but not original at all.

dont know whether the bit wig guys was involved in key concepts.. but it was very realizable that they was gone when L8 turned out to be a crashing mess..
Seemed that the guys that have left was´nt their weakest coders...

Opcode is actually the software company that started the audio inside the the midi sequencer thing..The first native running Audio/midi DAW. And had with Vision the most advanced midi workstation program of its time.. ..actually none have reached that yet again.. So the best sequencer program of all time imo.

Similar to later live you was able to trigger parts with the keyboard.. and similar to live there was various launch modes..

You had 9 parallel tracks or slots in which you could launch that parts.. where parts could be synced or free running on their own tempo.. start on the next one or immediately.. play one shot, looped or gated by the keyboard..And could be transposed with the keyboard in realtime.

But, stronger than ableton clips, the opcode parts was each a whole arrange window.. so each pattern a complete arrange window with as much tracks with its own independent loops, as you wanted.
And that on 9 parallel tracks/slots.. A very powerfull live sequencer...

and similar to ableton live you could record your live played arangement of these parts into a new arrange window.. And thats the main feature really that separated studio vision and later live from all the other midi workstations and daw´s...

Ableton Live is very much a kid of opcodes Vision live arranging concept..
interbreed with sonics foundrys Acid..which invented the elastic audio warp marker concept..And.mircrosofts Excel ...

You can say that ableton made an audio version of opcodes midi sequencer concept..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opcode_Systems

[slick easy]

Originally Posted by audioconsult

has one of theese ribbon style touch faders like the tempest is using but way bigger.. looks like a good modulation input..

and why would any software need to support retsina displays? the ableton graphic is pretty rough .. wont make a big difference anyway.. Retsina support is really not especially urgent..


my juno 106 would benefit more from sysex support

So no pitch bend? That limits genres and playstyles.

I prefer the ableton graphic to all others because its minimal which makes it quicker to navigate.

Retina support makes the software look more like its on paper than on a screen + it reduces eye strain for Marathon sessions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[lestermagneto]

Originally Posted by audioconsult

Opcode is actually the software company that started the audio inside the the midi sequencer thing..The first native running Audio/midi DAW. And had with Vision the most advanced midi workstation program of its time.. ..actually none have reached that yet again.. So the best sequencer program of all time imo.

Opcode Systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

+1,000,000,001

best ever, still get misty eyed for it. possessed such obvious functionality that no modern DAW can do as easily or efficiently. Damn Gibson to hell.

[Swami Digital]

I actually am quite excited for Push and Live 9. I've not been using Live except for a few projects for the last year. 90% of what I do happens in Logic, but hopefully Push can change that.

[worm]

Originally Posted by lestermagneto

possessed such obvious functionality that no modern DAW can do as easily or efficiently.

tell me more

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by lestermagneto

+1,000,000,001

best ever, still get misty eyed for it. possessed such obvious functionality that no modern DAW can do as easily or efficiently. Damn Gibson to hell.

Let met add another +1,000,000,000 to that. The curse with Opcode was the limitation of hardware platforms at that time. That and Gibson purchasing the company and killing it later.

Back to Ableton Live, if they at least added a couple of more wow factors to Live 9 many existing Live users would not complain today. I kind of don't complain but I'm neither that exited. Or let's say I would be prepared to pay $70 for the upgrade and most likely I end up paying $170. And the only reason I will upgrade is to make sure existing Live projects work in future OS versions.

[romanski]

ableton could..hrmm..borrow some ideas from bitwig)) if i understood correctly there is a possibility to keep a few audio files in clip(speaking of bitwig). thus you can apply a groove to a few audio clips without consolidating it. maybe i do it wrong and confuse something but you cant apply groove to an audio track(ableton) but only to audio file and even then it works quite crappy. well, there is some time before official release so maybe they will do their best and include a few more additions. at the beginning i was excited about L9 but now i seriously do understand that a few extra plugins and one audio to midi trick is not enough. dont even want to mention curves because every daw has been having it for a looooong time.

[chrisso]

I can't believe people are underplaying all the new stuff in Live 9.
For example "one audio to midi trick".
It's three actually, audio to midi drums, audio to midi melody, audio to midi chords/harmony.
Automation in session view. Underwhelming?

They say the improvements to workflow and the library system are major. No one here has tried it, so you can't really say it's a 'minor' upgrade.

[romanski]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I can't believe people are underplaying all the new stuff in Live 9.
For example "one audio to midi trick".
It's three actually, audio to midi drums, audio to midi melody, audio to midi chords/harmony.
Automation in session view. Underwhelming?

They say the improvements to workflow and the library system are major. No one here has tried it, so you can't really say it's a 'minor' upgrade.

well....i guess your truth. we have not tried it yet.

[login]

the beta started check out your account in the mornings when they hand out more invites.

https://www.ableton.com/en/beta-signup/

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I can't believe people are underplaying all the new stuff in Live 9.
For example "one audio to midi trick".
It's three actually, audio to midi drums, audio to midi melody, audio to midi chords/harmony.
Automation in session view. Underwhelming?

They say the improvements to workflow and the library system are major. No one here has tried it, so you can't really say it's a 'minor' upgrade.

Audio to MIDI are cute but I yet have to figure out a case where I need it. And I have Melodyne.

[audioconsult]

the biggest fanboys again the betatesters.. they never learn.. or why waste money on people that give the program a hard time..

actually hoped that they do it this time more professionally.. and just release when ready..