So many saturators, so little knowhow

[enossified]

I'm twice your age and remember analog all too well...hiss, distortion, hum, wow and flutter, splicing with razor blades

Anyway, I don't believe in saturation plugins, just try to get the sound right in the first place.

I'm sure (many) others will rabidly disagree with me.

[tedgoldie]

i've been using soundtoys decapitator to add subtle saturation. the plugin has a wet/dry knob which is very useful to add a little.

i find particularly on drums that is makes them sound better. and i don't mean they sound distorted, i'm talking adding a bit of texture that makes them sound a bit thicker.

[fragletrollet]

URS Saturation is really nice to "thicken" sounds up a bit. It can also soften high-freqs, making them sound "better".

After I started my venture into saturation, I am more and more intrigued to get to know more flavours and what they fit well at.

[Lowas]

Anyway, I don't believe in saturation plugins, just try to get the sound right in the first place.

I'm sure (many) others will rabidly disagree with me.

I kind of agree.
I use the onboard distortions on synths 90% of the time.
Distorsion is mostly about using the right algorithm for the right job with the right amount.
It's very much about taste too, Dada Life and D Ramirez mixes sounds quite different.

[apartment dog]

For what I read Saturation (and I guess distortion) can do things that EQ can't cause it creates harmonics and therefore is used a lot in mixing. It makes you do things EQ and Compression can't.

[tehlord]

Originally Posted by enossified

I'm twice your age and remember analog all too well...hiss, distortion, hum, wow and flutter, splicing with razor blades

Anyway, I don't believe in saturation plugins, just try to get the sound right in the first place.

I'm sure (many) others will rabidly disagree with me.

I remember it too, I also remember cheering loudly when I bought my first digital synth.

I think there is a definite pleasing quality to analogue however, that's yet to be replicated in the digital world.

As for the saturation plugins, as long as they're treated like FX rather than emulations I still think they're useful.

[Lowas]

Originally Posted by apartment dog

For what I read Saturation (and I guess distortion) can do things that EQ can't cause it creates harmonics and therefore is used a lot in mixing. It makes you do things EQ and Compression can't.

In the software world if saturatorcode can produce harmonics of course an EQ and compressor can too.
The only thing I'm arguing against really is that companies sells saturation plugs with hype that do VERY little for quiet a lot of money.

[botulus]

Distortion, as an effect, can be just what the doctor ordered. I tend to use distortion to make things come alive; a lot of soft synths, though good, sound like software: dead. Distortion can make things sound as if electricity was used to produce the sound. It's also great to make things standout in a mix without having to eq or adjust levels. Soundtoys Decapcitor and SPL Twintube are my favorites at the mo.

[binman_uk]

D16 Decimort and Devastor, combined with turning the gain up lots on my mixer. I've never needed anything else to be honest.

[aTelecine-Lex]

Originally Posted by binman_uk

D16 Decimort and Devastor, combined with turning the gain up lots on my mixer. I've never needed anything else to be honest.

I strongly second D16's Decimort - I love that plug-in - Especially on electronic drums.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that D16's plug-ins often are over-looked, or at least not mentioned much

(Notwithstanding their recent new synth offering which has a lot of buzz at the moment)

Best,
Alexa

[boybianchi]

Originally Posted by aTelecine-Lex

I strongly second D16's Decimort - I love that plug-in - Especially on electronic drums.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that D16's plug-ins often are over-looked, or at least not mentioned much

(Notwithstanding their recent new synth offering which has a lot of buzz at the moment)

I have all the D16 plugins. And really like the decimort and devastator plugin too, although it's a pain in the *** to skip presets. Have you noticed extreme gain changes while doing that? And not my go to plug for "subtle" stuff either..

[tedgoldie]

Originally Posted by Lowas

In the software world if saturatorcode can produce harmonics of course an EQ and compressor can too.
The only thing I'm arguing against really is that companies sells saturation plugs with hype that do VERY little for quiet a lot of money.

i agree they might not be everybody's taste. but saturators are supposed to do very little, its a subtle effect, they aren't really like distortion units. in my opinion its best to use them so you can't really tell they are there, but if you bypass them you know something's gone missing.

i find sonnox inflator useful for that kind of thing. sonnox also put a 'warmth' dial on their compressor which is similar. makes things a bit richer.

[antwoneb]

Actually you can recreate a harmonic distortion ITB with just the plugins inside of your daw...i.e. in Logic there is the Tape Delay where you can bypass the feedback and keep only the emulation of the tape....I think it sounds great and I demoed a lot of high-end or cheap plugs like Toneboosters, PSP, Izotope, URS and so on...(never had the chance to demo Slate products though, no iLok)
There's even a subtle tube distortion in the Logic's Compressor that can add a bit of life on your channel or on the Master too....and probably few of you know that there is a tube/tape saturation impulse response in the Space Designer too...

They will sound like real analogue saturation? I don't think so
They prevent you from hiss, hums, distortions, maintenance and so on...? Yes

[lysander]

Re: impulse responses, they can only represent linear time invariant systems, e.g filters and reverbs, so a tape impulse response will never add harmonics, it can only EQ the signal.

[Kindred]

apart from when I put stuff through the Phoenix at mastering stage, the only thing I ever use saturation for is to tame harsh sounding highs to get rid of that resonant digital thing that some highs have...

[stgaudio]

I think saturation plugs lend themselves well to ITB fx sends. Decapitator, NLS Nevo / EMI are great after a reverb, delay or modulation. I find they add a bit of life and keep things from getting too separated. As for inserting them on tracks, IMO it's best to get yourself 90% of the way there with your front end and if you decide you want to smash the vocals or drum mix, they can be useful there to. They are easy to over use however and things can smear easily.

I think if your trying to replace a good front end with plugins your going to be a let down, but if used creatively and in moderation, they can bring something to the table for sure.

[aTelecine-Lex]

Originally Posted by boybianchi

I have all the D16 plugins. And really like the decimort and devastator plugin too, although it's a pain in the *** to skip presets. Have you noticed extreme gain changes while doing that? And not my go to plug for "subtle" stuff either..

I deff agree that the preset handling is a nightmare on many d16 plugs -

Decimort is bad, but some of thier other plugs are a horror show for preset scrolling.

I also wouldn't call it subtle - but still, added carefully it almost always does the trick on my drums

Cheers,
Alexa

[binman_uk]

Originally Posted by aTelecine-Lex

I deff agree that the preset handling is a nightmare on many d16 plugs -

Decimort is bad, but some of thier other plugs are a horror show for preset scrolling.

I also wouldn't call it subtle - but still, added carefully it almost always does the trick on my drums

Cheers,
Alexa

Agreed.
I mainly use hardware and the D16 plugins still get used on every track I make. Fantastic stuff imo.

[raymondwave]

Never used fully analogue studio, but when I have listened to my mixes done with a DAW + outboard gear, they do sound fuller and different to DAW + plugins. So I've started using saturator plugins to compensate. Sometimes to beef up single instruments, but lately also the master out.

When I used DAW + outboard gear, I sometimes sent mixes thru an analog tube limiter (SPL Charisma) to get extra oomph and it does make a difference even when used subtly.

My main tools are SPL Twintube on single instruments and brainworx stuff on main out. Sometimes Waves Kramer Tape too, but I'm trying to stay away from Waves these days.

D16 makes great tools and the Decimort makes nice "old school sampler sound". I haven't had much use for Redoptor or Devastor so far. I haven't figured out a way to use them so that they wouldn't high pass the whole signal. It always seem to drop the low end when I load either of these.

[Demokid]

I use an external pre-amp or my A&H mixer if I want to add some distortion to a sound. Sometimes I distort the input of e.g. the Korg SDD2000, DeltaLab or RE-301 to get distorted delays.
When I’m done with my “in the box” mix of a track I route the different elements (drums, keyboard, strings/pads…) to their own busses in my DAW. These digital busses are then routed back to my analog mixer on separate tracks.
This way I get some nice analog summing when I do a 2-track recording back into my DAW. This stereo track is then mastered.

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by boybianchi

Alright, i will admit. Although i am really through with the "analogue" hype in digital plugins, i still try every new plugin that claims to saturate\distort in a musically pleasing manner.

Truth of the matter is that i am 28, never experienced a fully analogue studio. Sometimes i wonder if i have a clue about what i'm doing. I'll be throwing around with these saturations and distortions like candy.

So i'm just very curious about the way you guys use them. Do you feel they add anything at all? Do you stick with one brand? Do you put it on almost every channel like you maybe would do with a HPF?

And, when is enough, enough? This is very subjective but it's just hard sometimes to not lose yourself in constantly pushing the knob further and further untill you reach a point where it's no longer clear what you were trying to do.

How do you approach saturation? What is your goal?

Hope to get some discussion going on.
Cheers.

how do I approach satruation .... hate to say with my more than with ears ... I 'look' for saturation to mildly pull down the peaks so things will sit in the mix and not cause a compressor on the mix bus to pump ... by the time i can 'hear' it it is doing toooo much and things start to sound flat

generally I am using actual analog stuff to do this .. I have a lot of gear with transformers so i will push it a little to saturate the transformer which will limit the peaks in a VERY transparent way... a little farther and it starts to get fatter and a bit more present .. a little farther and it turns to crap.


I use 'saturation' in tracks usually and not on complete mixes .. I prefer compression on mixes... a compressor can control more dynamic range without 'loosing it'

I may go 80% on a mix with the comp and finish it with saturation ..that way both things are working in their happy zone

think of where the word came from ..tape saturation is a form of 'limiting' that occurs when the tape wont take any more signal and starts to squash things .. too much and you blow a hole in the oxide and ruin the tape

transformers (also a device that works with magnatizm ) do a simialar thing.

so for me I am looking for rather transparent control of peaks on tracks (most of the time) and a little finish on a mix AFTER the 'heavy lifting' has been done by a compressor

[aTelecine-Lex]

In reply to the original question -

The way I typically use ITB saturators for adding subtle distortion is to use whatever the Plug-Ins control is for the "drive" (What adds the amount of distortion)

Add until I can just barely hear the effect and then I back off slightly until I can hardly hear it (if at all)

I use the above method mostly when using those sort of Plug-ins across the many if not all the tracks.

If I am adding distortion for effect say w/ something like Decapitator on an individual source - I employ a similar method to the above - But leave a bit more of the effect in place.

I suppose the reason I think this is the best way is that many of these plug-in's shine the most when used as a sum of instances rather then when thought of a in the context of a single track (Many people I have encounterd seem to take the latter approach and find themselves in a mess with quickness.)

The secondary approach I described above (for singular instances) I suppose related in a way to the first in trying to not "over do it" - Which as we all know is all to easy to do with nearly anything.

Best,
Alexa

[boybianchi]

Originally Posted by aTelecine-Lex

In reply to the original question -

The way I typically use ITB saturators for adding subtle distortion is to use whatever the Plug-Ins control is for the "drive" (What adds the amount of distortion)

Add until I can just barely hear the effect and then I back off slightly until I can hardly hear it (if at all)

I use the above method mostly when using those sort of Plug-ins across the many if not all the tracks.

If I am adding distortion for effect say w/ something like Decapitator on an individual source - I employ a similar method to the above - But leave a bit more of the effect in place.

I suppose the reason I think this is the best way is that many of these plug-in's shine the most when used as a sum of instances rather then when thought of a in the context of a single track (Many people I have encounterd seem to take the latter approach and find themselves in a mess with quickness.)

The secondary approach I described above (for singular instances) I suppose related in a way to the first in trying to not "over do it" - Which as we all know is all to easy to do with nearly anything.

Best,
Alexa

your second line makes me think of how i approach high pass filtering on almost all my individual tracks.. pull it up untill the point where you can hear it, then pull it back a little. I think this technique applies for saturation and compression as well in many cases. Eye opener! :-)