Modern analogs that do 80's boogie funk synth bass well?
I have an almost too-specific question concerning analog synth bass. I'm looking for a modern or semi-modern analog that can pull off synth bass like the SC Prophet 5, Oberheim OB-Xa, etc... I'm talking about the sort of aggressively filter enveloped synth bass found in early 80's boogie funk tracks like the following:
With various analog modeling hardware and software synthesizers I have not been able to replicate this sound. Something is missing. To clarify, I know how to program these kinds of sounds, and I've gotten quite close, but there's an extra 5% of something that's missing. So with that said, can someone with experience working with various modern analogs recommend a unit that is up to this sound, or that might be reminiscent of it? Monophony, duophony, polyphony, doesn't really matter - can it do various degrees of sawtooth/square/pulse wave "rez bass?" My budget is approximately $1000 if necessary. So I don't have thousands of dollars of liquidity to easily try out all kinds of units - I am aware that there is a sea of modern mass-market and boutique analogs - so maybe the more experienced hardware heads can help direct a young producer/songwriter in the right direction.
Notes
1. I know that preamps, mixing desks, analog tape, and various recording techniques contributed to this sound, but I'd like to leave that aspect out as much as possible.
2. I am going for a modern analog to avoid issues of excessive wear, upkeep, initial repairs, detuning, and inflated prices because of demand for vintage.
edit: Chromeo really likes their Moog Prodigy - that gives you bass without breaking the bank. A Source would also be a good idea, but I think those already go past your budget limit.
Thing is, with every substitute you'll always be left thinking that you really need those few percents left, and you won't be happy as long as you don't have them. But even if you had them, there'd still be something missing.
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Just get a Model D and a Prophet 5 and you're set.
yeah, just get a Model D and a Prophet 5. No big deal. Your $1000 should more than cover both. You should pick up a polymoog too for your chords, with the money you'll have left over.
yeah, just get a Model D and a Prophet 5. No big deal. Your $1000 should more than cover both. You should pick up a polymoog too for your chords, with the money you'll have left over.
yeah, just get a Model D and a Prophet 5. No big deal. Your $1000 should more than cover both. You should pick up a polymoog too for your chords, with the money you'll have left over.
Why don't you post your examples. I'd be interested to hear how close you got with whatever synth you have.
By the way, I wouldn't underestimate the use of post-processing. Even a little bit of mid eq boost will transform a bass sound drastically, and so you could be chasing that sound, missing the 5% you mention, which could be all to do with the EQ. Add to this high quality compression or a little bit of real tube sound and the overall sound will be far removed from the bare bones synth sound, which you think it is.
Just to give you an example, there was a thread here recently where people tried to find out what bass was used on a track by Imagination. Lots of people posted wild guesses, but in the end it turned out that the synth was simply compressed to hell, which changed the overall timbre making an accurate guess of what synth was used difficult.
edit: Chromeo really likes their Moog Prodigy - that gives you bass without breaking the bank. A Source would also be a good idea, but I think those already go past your budget limit.
Thing is, with every substitute you'll always be left thinking that you really need those few percents left, and you won't be happy as long as you don't have them. But even if you had them, there'd still be something missing.
I would suggest the Studio Electronics ATC-1 instead of the SE-1x.
I have both and the ATC has a tighter low end and little faster envelopes, alas more suitable for that old skool synthbass.
Still not a Minimoog but maybe the best thing if you are on a budget.
You can get them really cheap. Huge sound for that money.
I would suggest the Studio Electronics ATC-1 instead of the SE-1x.
I have both and the ATC has a tighter low end and little faster envelopes, alas more suitable for that old skool synthbass.
Still not a Minimoog but maybe the best thing if you are on a budget.
You can get them really cheap. Huge sound for that money.
Cheap only in the US unfortunately. The ATC is 1500€ (about 2000USD) new here in Europe. That's not cheap for a rackmount monosynth, considering you could get a new Minitaur, a Minibrute and a Mono Lancet for that money. Or a DSI Prophet 08 rack.
Dunno about 2nd hand though, I've never seen them for sale here in Finland.
100 euros extra for an oscillator and a boatload of knobs is not bad
I bought my SE1x (which I no longer have - it had to go to fund a Minimoog) for 850 euros from the German eBay, ATCs go away for even less. They're not common, but not horribly expensive either. I wouldn't mind having one again, but I'm kind of covered sufficiently with regards to the analog Moogish monosynth department .
It has a "sloppier" sound than the Voyager though, and envelope snap is something you really want for those tight pulse basses. But it does those "rumbling" bass sounds so well - better than the Voyager, I'd say.
Hopefully they'll hurry up with the new Boomstars.
I have a Juno 60, Little Phatty and a Yamaha Motif (good DX sounds and some good Prophet/Oberheim brass/string pads). FWIW i find the phatty a bit too 'phat'... and not 'bright' enough. If you add loads of FX and tweak for ages, you can usually get something usable, but it's a bit too 'big' for bass a lot of the time. And it's not 'complex' enough for the type of lead sounds that i like. The voyager will give you the complexity, but not he brightness. Running them through a bit of mild distortion helps give it more life. It's not really a synth i find inspiring to start a track off, more a 'utility' synth but YMMV.
It definitely sounds analog and much better than VSTs, but for the particular style of music, i'm not convinced. FORGET the filter overload mode for the majority vintage tones.
I'm very interested in the MiniTaur...
The prophet 5 thing is an issue too with this style. Basically all soft emulations suck, and my motif only has a few good patches. The prophet 08 doesn't seem to get the same love, but i haven't tried one. If i can try one and find it can do a bass like the one in midnight star's 'operator', and good brass chord stabs, i'm buying one.
No VSTi plugins seem to come close, although i heard a guy on here (from Scotland?) do very well with the Arturia stuff. When i tried the demos, i thought it sounded awful, however
I'm considering this as the solution, but they're no longer made and very hard to find second hand: Creamware Pro 12 ASB
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I'm considering this as the solution, but they're no longer made and very hard to find second hand: Creamware Pro 12 ASB
I had one for a while... It was kinda nice and it had a Prophet-like sound. Yet at the same time, there was something really crappy about the sound... Maybe it was the D/A conversion, I don't know. Definitely try before you buy. Wouldn't recommend it for 80's analogue boogie bass.
Why don't you post your examples. I'd be interested to hear how close you got with whatever synth you have.
By the way, I wouldn't underestimate the use of post-processing. Even a little bit of mid eq boost will transform a bass sound drastically, and so you could be chasing that sound, missing the 5% you mention, which could be all to do with the EQ. Add to this high quality compression or a little bit of real tube sound and the overall sound will be far removed from the bare bones synth sound, which you think it is.
Just to give you an example, there was a thread here recently where people tried to find out what bass was used on a track by Imagination. Lots of people posted wild guesses, but in the end it turned out that the synth was simply compressed to hell, which changed the overall timbre making an accurate guess of what synth was used difficult.
Well, coming from himalaya this isn't advice to be taken lightly.I know Opolopo and other artists swear by DCAM and get good sounds out... but I can definitely tell it's in the box. I'll try to put up some clips with varying degrees of processing, later,after work. Thanks.
I have a juno 60, little phatty and a yamaha motif (good DX sounds and some good prophet/oberheim brass/string pads). FWIW i find the phatty a bit too 'phat'... and not 'bright' enough. If you add loads of FX and tweak for ages, you can usually get something usable, but it's a bit too 'big' for bass a lot of the time. And it's not 'complex' enough for the type of lead sounds that i like. The voyager will give you the complexity, but not he brightness. Running them through a bit of mild distortion helps give it more life. It's not really a synth i find inspiring to start a track off, more a 'utility' synth but YMMV.
It definitely sounds analog and much better than VSTs, but for the particular style of music, i'm not convinced. FORGET the filter overload mode for the majority vintage tones.
I'm very interested in the MiniTaur...
The prophet 5 thing is an issue too with this style. Basically all soft emulations suck, and my motif only has a few good patches. The prophet 08 doesn't seem to get the same love, but i haven't tried one. If i can try one and find it can do a bass like the one in midnight star's 'operator', and good brass chord stabs, i'm buying one.
No VSTi plugins seem to come close, although i heard a guy on here (from Scotland?) do very well with the Arturia stuff. When i tried the demos, i thought it sounded awful, however
I'm considering this as the solution, but they're no longer made and very hard to find second hand: Creamware Pro 12 ASB
I was considering the little phatty but seemed to get the impression from most reviews that the DSI Mopho does all that the phatty does and little more. I've actually gotten quite close to this sound with a microKorg, but there was that little something missing, that in retrospect might have been analog post-processing. For pads and stabs I tend to use my Yamaha SY77 that does brass and brass-like pads remarkably well, like stunningly well.
You want Moog bass, so my suggestion is to get a Moog. The best option is to try and find a Source. Next best is a used Little Phatty. A Mopho isn't going to do it for you. If you want *that* bass sound, look for a 2 osc Moog.
I've actually had my eye on your SY77 patches for some time. I just need to buy a new midi connection for the laptop I have dedicated as its librarian (running FM Alive). I regretted getting the 77 at first, but it's grown on me as I've come to understand it. I don't know what I'll do when she goes. Probably go hug myself and cry in the shower.
Hey, thanks.
I've yet to get the librarian for my SY.
I may have a patch for you. Just tried to get close to that bass in the video and...I dunno, it's close enough for me, but it may still miss that 5%.
What have you used to get this sound so far?
Hmm, my floppy drive is broken, so midi dumps are the only way to get things on and off. You're a boss for attempting to get that sound on the SY77, that is beyond my programming skill for now.
On the hardware VA side I've used a microKorg and a Gaia. The microKorg was very close, but I had to give it up some time ago to... maintain financial solvency we'll say. Software side, I've used Massive, Waldorf Largo, DCAM synth squad, Alchemy (although I never tried that hard to get this sound with Alchemy, nor was I able to work with your content). I guess I haven't been compelled enough to drop the money on a soft synth, they all sounded very similar as far as analog-ness goes, like choosing between Pepsi and Coca-Cola. Lately I've just been using Ableton's native Analog for this type of stuff, since I haven't really noticed a huge enough leap in quality or color from Analog (which is basically Ultra Analog) to higher end softsynths to warrant hundreds of dollars spent - since I do buy all my stuff . So I've been sitting on my money to get a hardware analog to fill that hole. It seems one can get very close with software but it requires a lot of niggling around with parameters and processing to achieve something that some true analogs simply do by their nature. Is going truly analog a worthwhile pursuit in your opinion?
I got fairly close to this sound with Analog earlier today, so I will share a link a bit later when I can polish it. Back to work...
I've heard a Moog Modular do some really Fat Mono work, but the SE-1X is probably the easiest to program and with the new Sine Wave addition, and Distortion Switch, there's is no end to the Fat sounds that comes form it's 3 x Oscillator Design.
Besides do you really want another keyboard that doesn't specialize for Bass & Lead...?
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