Say I've made a very minimal techno track. Kick, snare, hihat, bassline plus another synthesizer sound doing either a melody or chords. So five sounds in total.
How should I approach panning with such music? I typically put everything in the middle, simply because things just sound so weird when you pan, say, the hats, even slightly. Things sound just, you know, off. The only stereo information usually comes from delays on, say, the hats and the second synthesizer.
Is putting everything in the middle a mistake? It's track-specific of course, but generally?
If you make minimal music, how do you approach building the stereo field?
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Panning drum sounds is all about achieving a balance, each drum sound has their own frequency, and panning those frequencies will result in a better balance across the stereo field.
Keeping everything in the middle is not a good idea, but don't go hard panning sounds though, as that will sound very off and will also play havoc with the gains of the other sounds.
Keep your kick and bass centre, same goes for your snare
Hi Hats can be panned just off centre.
Of course effects applied to drum sound can shift things around. I'm always playing around with the panning before i record a track, so i can achieve the balanced mix i want before hitting record.
Just try moving your sounds around using the pan pots, see what suits you best.
good advice above... i would just add that using a slow lfo on panning can give interesting results and give momentum to certain sounds, just make sure not to over use it.. minimal is all about being subtle
good advice above... i would just add that using a slow lfo on panning can give interesting results and give momentum to certain sounds, just make sure not to over use it.. minimal is all about being subtle
Indeed, a bit of blurring autopan at whatever width, speed and depth feels natural can do the world of good in taking away stuck smallness without spreading your hihat legs too wide......
Say I've made a very minimal techno track. Kick, snare, hihat, bassline plus another synthesizer sound doing either a melody or chords. So five sounds in total.
How should I approach panning with such music? I typically put everything in the middle, simply because things just sound so weird when you pan, say, the hats, even slightly. Things sound just, you know, off. The only stereo information usually comes from delays on, say, the hats and the second synthesizer.
Is putting everything in the middle a mistake? It's track-specific of course, but generally?
If you make minimal music, how do you approach building the stereo field?
you do it just right.. thats the modern way of mixing club music ..all this 1960´s panning advices come from people that went to the SAE and havent learned how to mix yet.
they use that not because of an overhauled aesthetic ideal that trys to mimic the physical location of a band on a stage.. they do it because they cant achive separation between the tracks in the mix... but..who cant mix in mono has´nt learned to work with the filters yet..
Of cause its allowed and welcome to have some cool stereo fx..or even surround fx made just with stereo.. or a comunication between signals of the left or right side.. especially when you are among the guys that thinks that you need 3 hihats and 4 bongo lines to get a driving groove.. in this cases left right pannings can be beneficial... but usually that situation just shows a weakness in groove design.
when you have many synths going on a comunication between left and right can be nice.. but the track neesd to work with just one of theese comunicating lines alone than. so they complement each other so well that one can replace the other in the track. You have to keep in mind that many people on the floor just hear one side of the signal..
anyway.. do what feels right for you but dont follow blindly 1960´s mix advice for 21th century club music.. when it sounds good for you it is good..
Keep your kick and bass centre, same goes for your snare
Hi Hats can be panned just off centre.
you have mentioned allmost all parts of a club track.. so everything in the center just the hi hat slightly of center ?
is there a special reason you like the hihat to be off center? and on which side off center? does that comunicate with the half of the brain that is more into rhytmic reception? or is that because of the physical location of a hi hat on a real drumset?
if the second is the reason you need to go slightly off center with the snare too.. and in the same direction as the hi hat.. but a little less far..and the stand tom goes to the other side.. that actrually really helps to make natural sounding drums to sound more natural... obviously..
But you need to decide wether you mix from the drummers listening position or from the audience listening position.. But that only makes sense on a natural sounding drumkit and grooves but not on the cybertron electro monster because theese have the hats on the head and not on theire side...
you have mentioned allmost all parts of a club track.. so everything in the center just the hi hat slightly of center ?
Well that's funny Sven...
I remember once sending a short demo track to one of the electronic music labels i was on in Germany. I got a reply from my label boss "the track you sent was in mono, how did you manage that!!"
I told the label boss, i didn't do any panning on that track...
I remember once sending a short demo track to one of the electronic music labels i was on in Germany. I got a reply from my label boss "the track you sent was in mono, how did you manage that!!"
I told the label boss, i didn't do any panning on that track...
So technically all club tracks are in mono, yes ?
? no.. what has panning to do with stereo or not? isnt that a little 1960´s approach on the stereo field?
with modern means you can position your signal wherever you want and give them any stereo width you want or even can make them sound like beeing inside a violin without even touching the pan knobs...
doing it just with the pan knobs gives a pretty skinny and lousy stereo for 2012 relations
The club pa is mostly in mono, but not all club tracks!
i never ever came along a club system that was in mono.. i however come often along clubsystem that do the stereo in the wrong way.. what screws the stereo reception on the dancefloor...
and even when there are some 3rd world countrys that do it just in mono... how they achive that with all the stereo gear? buy extra L/R summing devices? or just run one side of the stereo signal? under developed as they are they probably do just one side..and there we have the best argument for beeing carefull with L/R panning in club tracks .. at least when they are ment to be played in the desert too.
I think there was a thread not along ago about this and apparently there are a lot more mono clubs then one would assume and I'm not talking third world countries (although it wouldn't surprise me Germany is ahead in this domain) but regardless like audio said, you are rarely in the dead center of a club PA system like you may be in the studio with monitors so its good advice to A/B mono&stereo (my interface has a convenient mono button for this purpose). I also agree that a good groove certainly does not rely on panning or such tricks, that's not to say they are completely useless..
With synths find a good stereo widening plugin and aux send that mofo. The Guitar Rig stereo tune is fabulous for this. You can even send a bass to it since it allows you to change the crossover point up to 350Hz. Try widening your main foundational synth (perhaps bassline) and using delay on the melodic synth. It isn't gonna suddenly make your mix as wide as the grand canyon but you will hear a difference and often times just a few wide elements can open up a mix in stereo.
I have the impression when listening to minimal tracks that there is a lot of Haas effect used on percussions.
Would you agree? Could this be an issue for mono compatibility?
I think there was a thread not along ago about this and apparently there are a lot more mono clubs then one would assume and I'm not talking third world countries (although it wouldn't surprise me Germany is ahead in this domain) but regardless like audio said, you are rarely in the dead center of a club PA system like you may be in the studio with monitors so its good advice to A/B mono&stereo (my interface has a convenient mono button for this purpose). I also agree that a good groove certainly does not rely on panning or such tricks, that's not to say they are completely useless..
I think there was a thread not along ago about this and apparently there are a lot more mono clubs then one would assume
but where are theese clubs? can somebody name one? Studio 54 was probably not mono.. so its not a american standard.. in germany i dont know a single mono club... in uk? dont know any...even gigs from underground bands are stereo there.. canada maybe?
aslong there is no evidence for the exsitance of theese illusive mono clubs i assume that the majority of all electronic music is consumed in stereo.
i don't remember... the info came from a supposed tech/roadie from australia i think, he was complaining a lot of clubs use mono outboard limiters/compressors in their gain stage or something, i don't know how accurate or representative that info was but i wouldn't be surprised especially in more modest income venues (obviously not in a big club that can afford funktion one system lol). as a DJ i know the feedback booth is usually mono, and my headphones are usually on just one ear so for blending purposes i'd say centering your mix is probably best.. but i've never really had an issue before as kicks are rarely ever panned.. i'm talking with vinyl btw...serato & traktor give a mono waveform feedback not to mention auto-sync possibilities so it isn't even an issue there..
Pretty sure I've read from some top level DJ (I think it was Marshall Jefferson) that there is at least a substantial amount of clubs that use Mono Systems around the world and he also specifically said that Germany has a very high amount of stereo systems.
If you make minimal music, how do you approach building the stereo field?[/QUOTE]
asymetrical symetry is the key.
Panning parts off centre but in ways so that they kind of balance out.
Alot of music like electronica really works well when you have tracks panned in non symetrical ways and with stereo inbalance in some sense
My advice is do what feels creative , pleases your ears and what works .
Ignore mono ideologies , you make music to be heard and even with clube mentality a large % of your works going to be heard on stereo systems and so ignore rules , push the stereo field and have no fear.
Do what you like , not what the genre police say is.
Pretty sure I've read from some top level DJ (I think it was Marshall Jefferson) that there is at least a substantial amount of clubs that use Mono Systems around the world and he also specifically said that Germany has a very high amount of stereo systems.
not at all surprised by that like i said earlier... best sound systems i've heard were in germany, and it's not just the equipment but the sound engineer. i guess they understand electronic music better then your average club sound engineer from elsewhere that comes from a pop/rock background or just graduated SAE (like 99% of club engineers here in france) it's quite a shame as a bad sound system/engineer can totally ruin even a great set imo.. saw richie & loco this summer in paris, mega funktion one system, 8 engineers with 64 track board, dozens of rack modules, they still managed to completely **** things up
Do what sounds good. There's not very much recorded music I've heard that's really, totally mono. Not unless it's a really old recording, or was done intentionally for minimal electronic, or for basically phase coherency playback purposes in clubs.
But almost all new (and not so new) electronic music takes advantage of stereo space. Most electronic music (other than dance or pop) tries to create an ambience or excitement to it that can definitely be enhanced in many ways by using the stereo space.
Also, if you're in it to create great recordings, for people to get the most from in their home or portable playback systems for years to come, and not just to play in a club, there's no reason NOT to make it stereo. Unlike someone said here... a good stereo mix is WAY more interesting and harder to achieve without sounding "misplaced" than a good mono mix. Listen to something like the Orb's Orbus Terrarum record... every sound, ambience, and detail has its place in the stereo space, so as to almost make the recording 3D. Working this into even the most minimal electronic music makes for a much more interesting and transcendent experience for the listener.
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