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Roland Integra-7 destroying Jupiter-50/80?
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#61
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
And again with that computer taken into consideration as part of the total price - as if each time someone buys a new plugin, he also buys a new computer just for that
Like i said before, most of us who are into music making\producing - wether proffesional or at home - already have dedicated pc's with gigabytes of ram and capable cpu's, and probably already have some vst's and sample packs in them. So that's the starting point for most of us.
So if a vst emulating acoustic instrument costs 149$ or 299$ or whatever - that's exactly how much it will cost. Please don't manipulate the numbers as if i'm purchasing a new computer with a new plugin each time.
still, 600 euros for a 5 instruments compared to £1200 for 250 supernatural instruments with the integra 7 then the integra compares quite well.

it all depends on what you need and how much you are willing to pay, as you have pointed out if your key goal is brass instruments there are some excellent options out there with sample modelling and using a usb wind controller:

EWI USB USB WIND INSTRUMENT

£270

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#62
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
That said,its obvious your trolling.
I'm not.

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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
its no need for you to keep posting.
You don't get to decide who posts and who doesn't. It's a free world, and I did nothing to break GS rules, so suck it up and live with it.

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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
You don't like Roland,just Google Beyonce live.
I don't fcking care about Beyonce or anyone else in the popular music world for that matter.

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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
ROLAND must be good enough.
No, it isn't. And don't be so butthurt about it because you obviously like Roland way more than you should.
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#63
8th October 2012
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Originally Posted by cresshead View Post
looks like you need to play it with a usb wind controller to get it to sound convincing
Actually, you don't - you can just use CCs and play via keyboard. It's a bit trickier, but it works well.
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#64
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
Google Beyonce
not in my current life
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#65
8th October 2012
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#66
8th October 2012
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Well Beyonce was just an example,I don't you guys are destroying Roland.

It's an amazing unit.

Sent from my PC36100
#67
8th October 2012
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Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
I don't you guys are destroying Roland.
Us not we do English.
MusicFan
#68
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
  #68
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OK, this thread just changed the direction towards the question: "SuperNATURAL Tones vs dedicated software" and "hardware vs software".

The Roland SuperNATURAL Acoustic Tones (apart from the unique SN virtual analog Synth engine) will never be able to compete with dedicated software solutions, like e.g. the mentioned "SampleModeling" software or e.g. "Arturia Brass", etc., concerning pure realism and imitation of real acoustic instruments during the production process in the studio.

But the SN Acoustic Tones doesn't have any load time and are immediately available on all 10 Jupiter-80 parts or all 16 Integra-7 parts.

The SN Acoustic Tones are very epressive sounds, which are a JOY to play ON A KEYBOARD as A KEYBOARD PLAYER. They have a certain quality in this regard, which is unmatched by any software solution I own, and I have plenty of the best currently available plugins to compare with.

As a synth player and in my "synth philosophy", those SN Acoustic Tones are just synth sounds to me, which of course associate to the original acoustic instruments, but have their own and unique sound character, which is sometimes quite far away from the real instrument they intend to simulate.

Especially the combination of those SN Acoustic Tones with the SN VA-Synth Tones are offering an incredibly rich and expressive synth sound, which is unique and just very inspiring to play.

The SN Brass and String sections are an exception, because they are very capable of delivering realistic sounds for a mix. But to get the last kick of realism, you will mix those SN Tones with dedicated software sounds. It just depends on the situation and what you need.

The SN Acoustic Piano Tone for example is just the best "digital piano" I've ever played. But dedicated piano software comes much closer to a real piano with all of its natural weaknesses, if you are looking for the perfect grand piano simulation during the production process in the studio. But I don't know of any software piano, which offers the rich expressiveness, playability and joy of the Roland SN piano Tone. It's like the perfect unreal piano, which couldn't exist in the real world.

But all SN Acoustic Tones are outstanding performance sounds, irrespective of their "realism"!

The SN Acoustic Tones are in my view finally more surreal than real, but I love their sound quality and unique expressivenes anyway, or better said: I love them exactly for this surreal or unreal sound character!

Finally: A good Laptop with top software is of course the better and much more powerful sound and production module/tool than the Integra-7. But the advantage of the I-7 over a Laptop is the immediate availability of a plethora of quality Roland sounds without any loading time, which in my view predestines the Integra-7 as a performance sound module or as a good completion to your current DAW setup. The Integra-7 finally offers almost the whole Roland sound palette from their whole synth history of over 40 years in a pristine sound quality...

roc
#69
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
  #69
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What makes the Jupiter 80 special for supernatural acoustic sounds is not just the sounds but the articulations
and the real human element you get when moving the pitch wheel or playing into other notes . It's a huge part of why I think software can't compare and it's so dam fun .

I think it's a joke to even compare the Jupiter-80 to the software flavor of the month .
#70
8th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
What makes the Jupiter 80 special for supernatural acoustic sounds is not just the sounds but the articulations
and the real human element you get when moving the pitch wheel or playing into other notes . It's a huge part of why I think software can't compare and it's so dam fun .

I think it's a joke to even compare the Jupiter-80 to the software flavor of the month .
Why? Are you suggesting software samples don't come with articulation? Of course they do! You have key switches and a bunch of other stuff to control articulations. In the simplest strings that came with kontakt you can switch between legato, stacato, tremollo, ostinato etc - while you're playing. And that's just a simple example.
So what the hell are you talking about?!
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MusicFan
#71
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Why? Are you suggesting software samples don't come with articulation? Of course they do! You have key switches and a bunch of other stuff to control articulations. In the simplest strings that came with kontakt you can switch between legato, stacato, tremollo, ostinato etc - while you're playing. And that's just a simple example.
So what the hell are you talking about?!
Please, just calm down and learn what forum member "roc" meant:

From Roland's websites:

"...SuperNATURAL sounds with enhanced Behavior Modeling technology for expressive acoustic instruments and accurate reproduction of performance articulations..."

"...The core of the INTEGRA-7 is its SuperNATURAL sound engine with Behavior Modeling technology. SuperNATURAL not only mirrors the sounds of acoustic instruments, it emulates the behavior of instruments when they're played. With SuperNATURAL, sounds come to life under your fingers..."

The SuperNATURAL engine analyzes your playing style and timing in real time, thus modeling the behavior of the corresponding instrument also in real time.

So depending on the corresponding instrument, if you play for example staccato, the sound will change automatically, as it will change if you play legato, etc. as it reacts to all other aspects like velocity, aftertouch, expression, etc.

SN-Guitar Tones will for example produce a slide effect, if you play two close notes almost at the same time. Solo Brass sounds will react like monophonic instruments, if you play single lines, but immediately switch to polyphonic mode, if you play several notes at a time, etc...

The Roland "SuperNATURAL" and "Behavior Modeling" technology is a kind of Artificial Intelligence, which supports your playing in real time. But you'll need some playing practice to handle this AI, resp. SN technology in a proper way...

#72
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremlin moon View Post
Actually the Integra 7 is obviously named to compete with the Intel i7.
Integra 7 Intel i7

if this is the case than we will see the integra 5 very soon. Puuh, all these bad marketing tricks ....
#73
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
Please, just calm down and learn what forum member "roc" meant:

From Roland's websites:

"...SuperNATURAL sounds with enhanced Behavior Modeling technology for expressive acoustic instruments and accurate reproduction of performance articulations..."

"...The core of the INTEGRA-7 is its SuperNATURAL sound engine with Behavior Modeling technology. SuperNATURAL not only mirrors the sounds of acoustic instruments, it emulates the behavior of instruments when they're played. With SuperNATURAL, sounds come to life under your fingers..."

The SuperNATURAL engine analyzes your playing style and timing in real time, thus modeling the behavior of the corresponding instrument also in real time.

So depending on the corresponding instrument, if you play for example staccato, the sound will change automatically, as it will change if you play legato, etc. as it reacts to all other aspects like velocity, aftertouch, expression, etc.

SN-Guitar Tones will for example produce a slide effect, if you play two close notes almost at the same time. Solo Brass sounds will react like monophonic instruments, if you play single lines, but immediately switch to polyphonic mode, if you play several notes at a time, etc...

The Roland "SuperNATURAL" and "Behavior Modeling" technology is a kind of Artificial Intelligence, which supports your playing in real time. But you'll need some playing practice to handle this AI, resp. SN technology in a proper way...

Nah.
Take Trillian for example. When you play the acoustic or electric basses - it also responds according to the way you play it. If you play two notes legato together - it makes a glide, just as an example. And of course it has 6 or 8 round robins, so it brings out different aspects of an electric bass - depending on how you strike the keys. And that is before getting into what you can do with additional controllers, such as a simple sustain pedal to imitate playing bass with a pick and without smearing the notes.

Either you are not up to date with what's possible with todays samples - or in a state of denial.
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MusicFan
#74
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
  #74
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Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Nah.
Take Trillian for example. When you play the acoustic or electric basses - it also responds according to the way you play it. If you play two notes legato together - it makes a glide, just as an example. And of course it has 6 or 8 round robins, so it brings out different aspects of an electric bass - depending on how you strike the keys. And that is before getting into what you can do with additional controllers, such as a simple sustain pedal to imitate playing bass with a pick and without smearing the notes.

Either you are not up to date with what's possible with todays samples - or in a state of denial.
I don't understand your irrational last statement. I just explained the Roland "SuperNATURAL" and "Behavior Modeling" technology in an objective way, without taking sides for anything.

I own Trillian, as many, many other soft and hardware synths, like two JP-80 and did of course some real-time comparisons between Trillian and the SuperNATURAL Bass Tones! Both are excellent, but if you compare them 1:1 you will realize the pros and cons, which each of them will reveal, dependent on the situation.

In my view, the SuperNATURAL Bass sounds are better suited for highly expressive and complex bass solo improvisations, while Trillian, which also reacts in real time to your playing style, but in a less effective way, is one of the best solutions for bass lines in context of an arrangement.

Spectrasonics' excellent Trillian offers the much better simulation of a real bass, while Roland's SuperNATURAL Bass Tones are offering much more playing fun...

#75
8th October 2012
Old 8th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Us not we do English.
Yea spell check typo lol

Sent from my AT100
#76
12th October 2012
Old 12th October 2012
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patch demos ( not from roland )

violin


strings


reed


ethnic


classic guitar
#77
12th October 2012
Old 12th October 2012
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Hmmm. Please remind me why does a future integra-7 buyer, would also need to spend extra cash on an ipad - rather than roland providing the exact same editor for a pc (and of course, daw integration couldn't hurt either).
#78
12th October 2012
Old 12th October 2012
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Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Hmmm. Please remind me why does a future integra-7 buyer, would also need to spend extra cash on an ipad - rather than roland providing the exact same editor for a pc (and of course, daw integration couldn't hurt either).
they probably will make a pc/mac editor

note: the ipad does NOT edit the effects section or srx sounds..you need to do that from the rack...you CAN edit everything from the Rack...you don't NEED an ipad...but if you have one (i do!) it's a good way t edit..i've only played with the editor without the integra 7 as i don't have an integra 7...yet!
#79
13th October 2012
Old 13th October 2012
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Originally Posted by cresshead View Post
they probably will make a pc/mac editor

you need to do that from the rack...you CAN edit everything from the Rack...you don't NEED an ipad...
You know, have you heard of the polyevolver rack? You can also edit all the complex polyevolver synthesis that's inside the box from the fron panel. But it's a major PITA. The Integra's front panel doesn't seem to have the best UI. It's a box full of goodies, but the interface isn't ideal for tweaking - and remember there's also a VA inside.
It NEEDS some kind of editor, otherwise it'll mainly get used as a preset box (who am i kidding? probably most people who'll get one - think about the integra-7 as a preset box. Not a sound designer's tool).
#80
13th October 2012
Old 13th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
dedicated libraries usually sound better.though I've googled and listened to this sample modeling,I think they sound pretty good,but that's subjective.I could only hear some attack nuance,nothing killing about it though.

That said,its obvious your trolling.

its no need for you to keep posting.

You don't like Roland,just Google Beyonce live.

You'll notice she have all Roland fantoms on stage.shes the richest RnB singer in the world.

ROLAND must be good enough.

maybe your more successful than her with your sample modeling???



Sent from my PC36100

Are u 4 real?
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#81
13th October 2012
Old 13th October 2012
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Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
You know, have you heard of the polyevolver rack? You can also edit all the complex polyevolver synthesis that's inside the box from the fron panel. But it's a major PITA. The Integra's front panel doesn't seem to have the best UI. It's a box full of goodies, but the interface isn't ideal for tweaking - and remember there's also a VA inside.
It NEEDS some kind of editor, otherwise it'll mainly get used as a preset box (who am i kidding? probably most people who'll get one - think about the integra-7 as a preset box. Not a sound designer's tool).
it does have an editor....ipad!

yeh i know...feels like a tennis match!

the thing i'd say is do not hope/believe that roland WILL make a pc/mac editor in a buying decision...you need to go with what IS not what might be and the ipad editor does NOT cover editing of all aspects of this synth...it's more like the jupiter 50...small editing screen on the unit and ipad for some of it's edits but not ALL.

have to say at least it's a FREE editor unlike the paid for editor on the roland gaia and people were saying why make a substandard touch screen experience with hardware when you could just make an ipad version and have it silky smooth...roland listened and delivered on that score.

re pc editors...IF roland do not make one..a 3rd party might come in and create one for the Jupiter range and integra as they all use the same base synth engine.

Last edited by cresshead; 13th October 2012 at 07:40 AM.. Reason: more stuff to say!
#82
15th October 2012
Old 15th October 2012
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Originally Posted by cresshead View Post
it does have an editor....ipad!...
Sorry, but this is not really an answer. A synth with no way to edit it without an expensive 3rd party hardware purchase? Wuut?

Well, ok, some buttons on the front of the unit, but I doubt that's a lot of fun to work with.

Otoh. as Zahush says, most buyers of the Integra probably see it as a preset box, so Roland probably figured 'whatever'. But that kinda undercuts the big sales lib that the synth is programmable and not just a rompler.
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roc
#83
15th October 2012
Old 15th October 2012
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roc
What makes the Jupiter 80 special for supernatural acoustic sounds is not just the sounds but the articulations
and the real human element you get when moving the pitch wheel or playing into other notes . It's a huge part of why I think software can't compare and it's so dam fun .

I think it's a joke to even compare the Jupiter-80 to the software flavor of the month .
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Why? Are you suggesting software samples don't come with articulation? Of course they do! You have key switches and a bunch of other stuff to control articulations. In the simplest strings that came with kontakt you can switch between legato, stacato, tremollo, ostinato etc - while you're playing. And that's just a simple example.
So what the hell are you talking about?!
It's obvious you have not spent time with the jupiter 80 (integra-7) .
I find it hilarious how so many users want to compare theses software flavor of the month VST's against hardware with decades of research and development behind them . Sure some software sounds good but let's not get carried away here , it's a reason your software coast $300 and hardware cost $3000 .
These hardware instruments are made with one purpose in mind , and thats to make great music , now can you say the same thing about a computer ?


Don't get me wrong I think software is great but the Jupiter-80 will even make the mistake sounds a trumpet player will make , if you play it that way.

Here's a quote from the Sound on Sound review of Jupiter-80 , I highly recommend this read and pay close attention to the last sentence .

From SOS Review :

"Of course, the Jupiter 80 is not for everybody, and if you need a workstation capable of providing a dozen splits with multitimbral effects assignments, you’re looking at the wrong instrument. But if you’re after something that provides some top?notch piano and orchestral sounds, a remarkably powerful VA synth that can imitate the best of the real thing, and the ability to build these into complex, involving sonic structures, the Jupiter 80 has a lot going for it. Sitting somewhere between a preset stage piano/organ/synth and a fully featured workstation, it’s a brave design, and — like me — potential purchasers need to take the time to overcome their preconceptions of what they think it should be, and begin to appreciate it for what it really is. "
#84
15th October 2012
Old 15th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Sorry, but this is not really an answer. A synth with no way to edit it without an expensive 3rd party hardware purchase? Wuut?
you can edit from the front panel of the integra7
or
you can edit via ipad
or you can set up a behringer 2000




midi pdf
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...yPazmp7x_XtJ-w

you have to cut corners somewhere to get the integra 7 to such a low price point.

if you need full editing window...get the jupiter 80
if you need a cheaper option....get the jupiter 50
...if you want cheaper...get the integra 7!

you can pick up a s/h ipad pretty cheap these days btw.
#85
20th October 2012
Old 20th October 2012
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loading virtual slots from front panel

#86
21st October 2012
Old 21st October 2012
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Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
A good PC + a copy of Reason leaves you far better off than getting an Intergra 7 and using a crappy PC. And you'd have enough money for some other gear as well.
I've grown quite wary of people pushing PC softsynths around here, especially Reason. I think the style of music posters here make or listen to is also highly pertinent. Reason, Kontakt and all these softies promoted around here are very good musical tools, depending on what you want to do with them.

My tastes are apparently in a severely backwater minority from what I can tell of the citizenry around here. I don't care for EDM and its sound. I like vintage synths, and doing what I can to recapture the character of those old beasts without shelling out the literal ten-twenty thousand you need to acquire and maintain just a few choice items. Kontakt can do fairly well at that, Reason... I'm not sold on. I understand that trying to make an instrument with certain characteristics act like something it isn't, is fraught with musical peril.

I'm also up on how nice some of these softies have become, especially with some of the pseudo-physical modeling articulations, and in a few cases, outright PM. BUT, I'm also very fed up with trying to make what I have now work as a DAW host without latency issues, and have chucked the whole idea until I can afford the small pile of cash I'd need for a decent i7 PC and a good sounding latency shy firewire mixer.

And I'm also quite used to the attitudes of all sides of this amazing musical gangland, and the frequent knife fights which break out between the vintage analog, VA, softie, rompler, gigastudio and banjo crowds here. I usually have to wade through a lot of defensive, testosterone drenched paragraphs to get to the interesting informative stuff.

The most important aspect of any instrument is - or should be - the sound. I chose my nick because I darn well can appreciate just about everything. And one thing too many people choose to ignore is that even the digital rompler guys have character that some of us actually dig the hell out of. And believe it or not, Roland instruments do have a unique, appealing sound. I like and require that sound in my arsenal. And by golly, I don't get that in Kontakt or Reason or whatever you want to mention. Not Kurzweil, Nord, Yamaha, whatever. Only Roland sounds like Roland, and that's what I want.

I like these samples. Roland has had some of the best in the business make their sample rom cards, like Spectrasonics courtesy of Eric Persing who knows his stuff. They still hold up well after more than a decade. Put this sound together with a good sound engine and nice filters, along with good effects, and even without the SuperNATURAL articulation engine, this has got to be a winner.

I know it's politically correct around here to hate on Roland, but I've never had the patience for bandwagon arguments without merit, which are way too fashionable in this wacky place. Just sayin'.
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#87
21st October 2012
Old 21st October 2012
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Why isn't HansZimmer using this thing if its so good for composing acoustic articulations?
#88
21st October 2012
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I dunno... maybe it's because Hans has a bazzilion gigabytes of sample library, as well as the ability to compose for real living orchestras or something.

But I wouldn't be too glib. Hans Zimmer seems to own or have owned at least one of everything.

I'd like to know if softies and gigalibraries are so spaztastic, why are hardware synths still selling like tacos?

NOW let the fun begin.
#89
21st October 2012
Old 21st October 2012
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Is the rack better than the keyboard now?
#90
21st October 2012
Old 21st October 2012
  #90
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Mostly destroying ears. The swindle of the decade. The sound of a GM module. When you think that for this kind of money you can get a Motif XS Rack or the M3 Xpanded module !!!!
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