Hey synth lovers, advice needed! Bought an analog synth on Ebay and despite the seller claiming it works "100%"... it arrived and the voice chips are already bad. The item description claimed it is "working 100%", and "all voices working fine" but there are voice dropouts and loud crackles almost constantly. The seller now claims no responsibility and says he owes me nothing.
What can I do? What are his responsibilities here? repairs? partial refund?
How can the responsibilities be enforced?
It's a nice synth and cosmetically in great shape so maybe I'd like to keep it and have it repaired, but he is refusing any responsibility at all.
Any advice? Plan of action? Thanks guys....
(The seller also wrote in the description that these synth models sometimes have voice issues and he doesn't want any responsibility with problems related to the voice chips, BUT he also wrote that this model is currently "working 100%". This is the reason I purchased it; if I knew the voices were already bad, I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place, yet now he's blaming me for buying it and then complaining that it's broken.)
That is total misrepresentation and if you call eBay they will make him refund your money. Or if it's a rare synth that doesn't come often for sale and you want to keep it, eBay can help you negotiate a solution. Open a claim with the "I received an item that does not match the seller's description." button and then call eBay, the representatives are helpful.
File a claim with eBay. eBay sides with the buyer the majority of the time. Just provide as much as evidence as possible to eBay regarding the reason to the claim. Also note that seller claimed it was 100% working order in the description. Just because they state no returns, eBay will cover the refund if you win the claim, assuming you paid with Paypal. If you didn't pay with PayPal, it will be tough. I've gone though this entire process, with a similar situation myself and eventually got my money back,
Start by contacting the seller and reporting the problem. I had this issue with my JX3P. It arrived with a broken sequencer slider amongst other things. They packed it stupidly, putting clear packing tape directly on the synth paint work...
That was a hell of a job to remove without lifting paint.
Eventually, I got a partial refund that reflected the TRUE value of the synth that they sold, so I got my 3P for about $200 or so.
Also, DO NOT communicate using anything other than ebay messages. Talking on the phone is the absolute WORST possible move.
You need a written record of every detail of the whole thing.
Thanks for responses so far.
I did pay with Paypal luckily. So is it better to file with them or with Ebay, or both?
Also, I did contact the seller privately but relations have now deteriorated. I was pretty cool about the whole thing initially, giving him opportunities to offer to pay partial repair costs via Paypal or something, but he's been really defensive and insulting almost every step of the way, now saying there's no way he'll pay and HE's insulted that I questioned HIS honesty by mentioning that he misrepresented the product.
I've been on both sides of buying and selling on eBay, and I've never come across someone this obstinate, rude, and immature. I don't know if he's a great liar or if he truly believes he is in the right on this issue.
Even if he truly did test the synth to the best of his ability (which I doubt, given his responses), the fact is it doesn't work 100% and he said it did.
I sympathize with sellers and I've been one myself, but it's his "F-off" attitude that really gets me and I worry he'll be doing this to other potential buyers and selling broken gear to others.
And I DO want to keep the synth so I'd like maybe only partial refund, and/or repair costs paid. If I do the Paypal claim, will the money come from him, or from Paypal?
I'm guessing it was a Juno-106? Get a full refund. Also if you don't mind telling us who the seller was so others can avoid dealing with them...
I didn't want to share too much at this point, due to confidentiality, but I think it shares some of those same voice chips. It's a rackmount MKS. If it was a Juno I would definitely get a refund since that synth is so easy to find. But I've been looking for one of these for a long time so I may prefer to keep it.
As for the seller, I don't think I should post the name publicly at this point until the issue resolves, but if anyone wants to know they can PM me.
The seller is not required to cover repairs...soo...
1. You should make a decision to keep it or not. If not...
2. File an item not described claim on Paypal. Wait till they respond. If they jerk you around again...
3. "Escalate" the claim as soon as possible.
This forces the seller return your money. Since you are the buyer you will win and get your money back. 100% guaranteed. You may have to cover return shipping if they want you to. If they act really stupidly during this dispute there is a chance of keeping it and getting all your money back.
There could be more things wrong with it, so I'd offload it this way. This process is the only way to get any satisfaction. If you wait or muck around you will be stuck.
from the way he is acting he probably knew it was bad and was hoping he sold it to some guy who let it sit in the corner for 8 months.
I agree it's possible but I didn't want to come out and say it.
Finally, I did hint at the possibility very indirectly and then he went off on me even more. So it's hard to say if he's mad because he's truly insulted or mad that someone saw through him.
Either way the product was totally misrepresented and his reluctance to admit to that seems a bit shady to me.
If he had just said..."Sorry, man. I honestly didn't know it was broken when I wrote the description." I might have understood, but instead he's trying to shift the blame to me and shirk any responsibility whatsoever. Very frustrating to deal with.
I agree it's possible but I didn't want to come out and say it.
Finally, I did hint at the possibility very indirectly and then he went off on me even more. So it's hard to say if he's mad because he's truly insulted or mad that someone saw through him.
Either way the product was totally misrepresented and his reluctance to admit to that seems a bit shady to me.
If he had just said..."Sorry, man. I honestly didn't know it was broken when I wrote the description." I might have understood, but instead he's trying to shift the blame to me and shirk any responsibility whatsoever. Very frustrating to deal with.
I wouldn,t get too caught up emotionally over this, unfortunately it
Happens all the time, just stop dealing with him directly
And go through ebay channels, as a buyer you,re usually covered.
I,ve had a few bad dealings over the years, but it always worked out
In the end.
He has to take it back. Open a paypal dispute which will hold the funds, talk to someone at paypal, you'll have to ship it back on your own dime but will get refunded for original cost of item and shipping.
Liars and scammers always freak out. And they kind of all freak out in the same predictable way. If they guy was legit he'd be upset at the situation but not at you. I've had people try to rip me off for $10 buying CDs on Discogs and when you can sense it and call them on it they just lose it.
Liars and scammers always freak out. And they kind of all freak out in the same predictable way. If they guy was legit he'd be upset at the situation but not at you. I've had people try to rip me off for $10 buying CDs on Discogs and when you can sense it and call them on it they just lose it.
Why is that, I wonder?
It's a strange reaction. Maybe it's supposed to shift blame and put the accuser back on the defensive?
The seller is not required to cover repairs...soo...
1. You should make a decision to keep it or not. If not...
2. File an item not described claim on Paypal. Wait till they respond. If they jerk you around again...
3. "Escalate" the claim as soon as possible.
This forces the seller return your money. Since you are the buyer you will win and get your money back. 100% guaranteed. You may have to cover return shipping if they want you to. If they act really stupidly during this dispute there is a chance of keeping it and getting all your money back.
There could be more things wrong with it, so I'd offload it this way. This process is the only way to get any satisfaction. If you wait or muck around you will be stuck.
Ok, thanks for the tips.
IF I decide to keep it, do you or anyone else here know if it's possible to do that and still get some reimbursement? For example, a partial refund equating to the value of a broken synth instead of a working one?
Unfortunately It sounds like the cleanest way is a full refund and I send it back (I guarantee he won't pay for shipping). The problems with this are 1. I'd actually rather keep it, I've been looking for it for a long time (it's minty other than voice chip problem). 2. If he gets it back, maybe he'll just pawn it off on someone else, repeating the cycle...
OK - I'm an experienced eBayer and this to me definitely sounds like he's in bad faith. He's stressing in a very unnatural way that the chips could go bad at any time: "As i said, i'm not sure whether this machine has the original voices, or if they have already been replaced, but it is currently working 100%, so i honestly don't know how much longer the current voice chips will last. It might be 20 years, it might be 20 seconds....The chips can be easily replaced if they do fail, but i don't want to accept responsibility for that. "
He knew the chips were already bad. It is unacceptable that you get a non-working machine when he clearly stated that they were working 100%. Chips don't go bad "in transit". They go bad with use. Get your money back in full and return the unit. MKS-7s are not even that rare!
UPDATE:
After reading the responses here, I was ready to just go through Paypal and go for the full refund.
However, he finally paid the repair money I requested... right before the deadline I gave him. So, I'm going to keep the synth and put that money towards the repairs (it actually won't completely cover it, but it was the quote I gave him initially.) I paid more than I wanted to for a broken synth, but I'll deal with the repairs.
Thanks for all the advice everyone, and best of luck with all your gear purchases; hope you can avoid problems like this one!
OK - I'm an experienced eBayer and this to me definitely sounds like he's in bad faith. He's stressing in a very unnatural way that the chips could go bad at any time: "As i said, i'm not sure whether this machine has the original voices, or if they have already been replaced, but it is currently working 100%, so i honestly don't know how much longer the current voice chips will last. It might be 20 years, it might be 20 seconds....The chips can be easily replaced if they do fail, but i don't want to accept responsibility for that. "
He knew the chips were already bad. It is unacceptable that you get a non-working machine when he clearly stated that they were working 100%.
Thanks. I agree and that's exactly what I told him. When something says "currently working 100%", that's what the buyer expects. Somehow this seller had a very hard time understanding that.
It's just bad business. Hopefully this was a learning experience for him. But I doubt it. At no point did he ever seem to feel he had done anything wrong, and actually was very patronizing and tried to shift the blame back onto me for not understanding his "clear" description of the item. That's the least of it but I don't need to go into the ugly details here.
most 106s we've bought that were sold as "fully functional" ended up with voice failures after they were powered up for a couple days. responsible sellers should run 106s and other synths that contain the same voice chips for a long period of time before determining theyre stable, and if the coating from the 80017's isnt removed, buyers should realize that its possible theyll fail in the not too distant future. these days, we tend to remove the coating from all 106 chips as a preventative measure as we would rather our customers end up with reliable machines.
mini
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UPDATE:
After reading the responses here, I was ready to just go through Paypal and go for the full refund.
However, he finally paid the repair money I requested... right before the deadline I gave him. So, I'm going to keep the synth and put that money towards the repairs (it actually won't completely cover it, but it was the quote I gave him initially.) I paid more than I wanted to for a broken synth, but I'll deal with the repairs.
Thanks for all the advice everyone, and best of luck with all your gear purchases; hope you can avoid problems like this one!
here's to hoping you come out on the good side of things with a fully functional synth that inspires you to create more music as i still jam "dark energy" every couple of days.
Cosmetically it is in fully working condition ( used to sell badly marked gear )
working last time i used it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( used to sell unworking stuff )
I havent had time to check it or dont have the right leads ( used to sell unworking gear )
I was given this by a freind or a family member but dont know how to use it so dont know if it works
( used to sell unworking gear )
Its easier to deal outside ebay !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regarding the 106 its a 50/50 chance this will happen no matter what , its just a problem synth to buy secondhand unless the seller knows his stuff or has had the upgrade to new chips.
here's to hoping you come out on the good side of things with a fully functional synth that inspires you to create more music as i still jam "dark energy" every couple of days.
most 106s we've bought that were sold as "fully functional" ended up with voice failures after they were powered up for a couple days. responsible sellers should run 106s and other synths that contain the same voice chips for a long period of time before determining theyre stable, and if the coating from the 80017's isnt removed, buyers should realize that its possible theyll fail in the not too distant future. these days, we tend to remove the coating from all 106 chips as a preventative measure as we would rather our customers end up with reliable machines.
mini
Nice. I probably should have purchased from you guys, but the item I wanted wasn't in stock.
If the synth had even lasted a few days, it could have been a different story. But these chips were failing right out of the box ...snap, crackle, pop. And it sounds like it's more than one failing voice chip, even though I haven't run the test mode on it yet.
I'm not sure how the seller didn't notice it, but he should have tested it more extensively and been more careful about his wording in the description. Especially because he knew about the potential voice issues beforehand.
I've had a Juno before with no issues at all, so this is what I was expecting here, especially if the seller writes "100% working, all voices working fine".
But given this chip issue, I agree sellers and buyers have to be very careful selling synths with these voice chips. Extensive testing and full disclosure and careful wording in the description is a must.
here's to hoping you come out on the good side of things with a fully functional synth that inspires you to create more music as i still jam "dark energy" every couple of days.
so, which MKS is it?
Hey, glad to hear that, thanks!
It's an MKS-7. It's very simple and has lots of annoying quirks (ex: won't even save patches), but I used to have one and just wanted one again. I've had a ton of gear issues lately, so as soon as it's fixed hopefully I'll be good to go...
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