Korg MS series, whats necessary?

[charlieclouser]

MS-50 is sort of an "expander" for the MS series - it has an oscillator, filter, eg, lfo, etc. and can be an independent synth, similar to an MS-10 (aka a cut-down version of the MS-20) or you could patch it into the MS-20 to give you another osc, filter, etc.

The hardware units have all gotten pretty pricey lately - MS-20 goes for between $1,500 and $2,000, MS-10 is usually under $1,000, and SQ-10 and MS-50 usually around $1,000 each.

Doesn't the iPad app have one main synth and then eight tracks of "drum" synths? If that's right, then to FULLY replicate the iPad app you'd need something like NINE of the MS-20s and NINE of the SQ-10s - so the app is a bargain at $20 or whatever it costs!

Of course, with the hardware you don't get preset storage, MIDI clock sync, X/Y pads, etc. - but you DO get mad-scientist-lab-vibe out the wazoo and much chance of happy accidents, gronky strangeness, and weird feedback loops - and a massively raw and agressive sound.

[gabrielxucram]

what If I just use like samplers to record each "drum" or something like that, is there a substitute or something? I do want the hardware but I dont want to spend 10000 dollars on it haha, but 3500 dollars for the sq-10/ms-50/ms-20 sounds reasonable, its a ****ing awesome machine and its 30 years old

[charlieclouser]

Well, yeah... it would be a little silly to have ten MS-20s! I only brought that up to illustrate how crazy the iPad app is. I have an MS-20 and an MS-50 and they are raw and rugged sounding, for sure - and they play nicely with a Kenton MIDI>CV interface. Be aware that the MS-series hardware uses Korg's own CV scheme instead of the more common 1volt-per-octave scheme, so not every MIDI>CV interface will work. The ones from Kenton ARE compatible and work great.

[gabrielxucram]

I have an Akai s2000, does it work? cause if it doesnt whats the best kenton(affordable) to have?

[kevin nowhow]

Charlie has already nailed everything.I own all apart from the MS-50(!!).

To be honest though this seekout can become more of a frenzy than a necessity.Prices can get even higher than suggested.I've recently seen the MS-50 going for around 2,300€!!I've heard only good things about the iPad app so think carefully about parting with lots of cash before doing so...

This may well make me sound like a hypocrite & perhaps i am.I have lots of gear & am ready to spend more but discourage you from getting any.Thing is i got caught up in that frenzy i was telling you before.No turning back on me now.What i'm trying to say is that these are tough times we live in & Charlie Clouser can vouch for the awesomeness of today's soft synths sound & added benefits.In fact, many well-known artists have abandoned hardware for software or don't rely on HW that much anymore.This is just food for thought & if you do buy something of the MS series you'll definitely have fun with it.Keep in mind though that these are old farts & may fail you at some point.Repairs are not something you wish for when buying machines.

An excellent alternative would be to invest in a custom modular.With 3,500 bucks you can purchase plenty of new modules-some of them emulating the MS filter for instance-giving you the chance to take the MS approach a bit further.This is guarranted fun & it's a project that never ends.10 year later & you could have easily covered your walls with modules.

Best of luck to whichever route you take!

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by gabrielxucram

I have an Akai s2000, does it work? cause if it doesnt whats the best kenton(affordable) to have?

They cost around 250€.There's even one in modular format out now.Definitely something to consider if you have vintage gear or new analogs without Midi sockets.

[gabrielxucram]

yeah I've seen the control freak Kenton seems nice and the Pro-solo also, btw thanks for giving me the advice, although I still want the hardware, I understand it can be a mistake but its something I need to do, but im actually now thinking about the new modules-some using the ms filters =D

[SSquirrel]

Of course Charlie, given the amazing level of info u have provided in the NIN Synths thread, when was the last time one of the MS made a track of yours? Heh. Assuming its been awhile as much ITB as u do anymore

Another alternative for the OP would be to collect the Korf Legacy sub midi controller shaped like the MS20. It's nearly the same size and patching the unit will make the patches on the iPad version if u are connected

Having all the antiques would rock but this is 2 or 300 which is way more reasonable. Plus iPad if u didn't own that

[gabrielxucram]

I made some cool industrial thing on the iMS-20, Im a big fan of NIN if it does bring a NIN I would love to own the MS series, the korg legacy really is a cool alternative but nothing compares to the fun of using the actual thing

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by gabrielxucram

yeah I've seen the control freak Kenton seems nice and the Pro-solo also, btw thanks for giving me the advice, although I still want the hardware, I understand it can be a mistake but its something I need to do, but im actually now thinking about the new modules-some using the ms filters =D

Oh no, it's not a mistake!Never meant to pass my advice like that.It was just my way to say "be cautious" as this is an expensive sport.If really want these machines then by all means, go for them!

Do check on a custom modular though.MS synths are semi-modular by their very nature & if you google "MS-20 filter Eurorack" you'll find some very good options.Afterall it's the filter section that is considered highly desirable on those old synths.Pair that filter with LFO modules, oscillator modules, envelopes, waveshaping oscillators, VCAs & countless others & you get a very capable synth indeed...

[gabrielxucram]

Originally Posted by kevin nowhow

Oh no, it's not a mistake!Never meant to pass my advice like that.It was just my way to say "be cautious" as this is an expensive sport.If really want these machines then by all means, go for them!

yeah I get that, thanks a lot =D

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by kevin nowhow

It was just my way to say "be cautious" as this is an expensive sport.

No doubt. The MS stuff has become quite expensive. There is a fortune right here:



Read more about this setup here. And no, this is not my rig. Mine is currently in storage. :(

The MS-50 was always a bit more expensive. But the $800 for a MS-10, and $1800 for a MS-20 seem not justifiable. Can't complain though, I do own some MSs, SQs, and VC myself.

+1 for looking into Euro modules!

[gabrielxucram]

I've found some MS-20 mint for about 1200$ few days ago on ebay and MS-10 for 700$, I cant find SQs and MS-50 that cheap, btw thats an awesome Rig, gosh I dont know anything about the MS-02 and the MS-03 or the MS-991, are they good? where can I find more info about them?

[lunaticpark]

some useful information about the MS series can be found here

[convex]

One difference that may also be worth considering is the external signal processing on the genuine MS-20. I mean, I have plenty of synths that process external sound, but the MS-20's module is a completely different universe. All sorts of bizzarre results can occur that you arent going to be able to approach with that app.

For me, this is the thing that really puts the MS-20 over the edge and the biggest thing that sets it apart from my other machines.

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

No doubt. The MS stuff has become quite expensive. There is a fortune right here:

Wtf????

Im familiar with MS10, MS20, MS50, VC10 & SQ10 ...

but whats all the other stuff??? (middle row end unit, and all of top row????)

[paugui]

It's all explained in that link

eric g's MS-rig

[Wolf89]

I own an MS 20 and I will have to say that the actual original hardware synth just has such a raw dirty sound to it compared to any of the software versions of it. It's the filters that do it I think. I love it.

And yeah the external signal processing is sick too. Infact my mate Ben from Baconhead has told me they pretty much use their MS-20 in the studio just for that. Haha.

[Rob Ocelot]

Perfect thread to ask if any MS-20 owners feel they really need the MS-02?

For me it's a very useful box and I'm kind of shocked that no one makes a modern equivalent or even a straight reproduction. I know of one modular maker that offered some of the MS-02 functionality but that appears to be vapourware. I've considered making a go of a straight reproduction and/or making some custom boards and offering them as kits. I wonder if/when I'd get spoken too by Korg's legal department. :-)

Surely there's some Yamaha CS Mono owners who would want something like this too?

edit: With the prices people are asking for the MS-02, would a repro that cost 1/2 or 1/4 as much be a viable product?

[Rob Ocelot]

While the SQ-10 is pretty good I think pairing an MS-20 with the Doepfer Dark Time is a better bang for the buck.

Just today, I saw this. This is the 'synthtop' version, which appears to want to fit in with the MS gang. It's own VCO which can double as an LFO, Ring mod (either with the internal VCO or by two external signals), and a Stereo panner! What's not to like. It's like the MS-50's baby brother.

[draven5]

As a proud owner of a Korg MS20 I keep searching almost everyday for a SQ10 and the last time I saw one up was a year ago that went for almost 1400 if I remember correctly. They are very rare now. There's a guy that makes clones but he says he cannot make every single feature because a few of the parts he cannot get. This to me justifies the high price of the SQ10. Like someone said though, it's an expensive sport and you're playing with the big boys on this one if you want to step up your synth collection and own a MS20. Quite honestly the Korg MS20 is great but you won't get the most out of it without the sequencer, in my opinion. So keep in mind it's not really a 1600 dollar synth it's a 3000.00 dollar synth. (sequencer with it) When I saw the patchbay I was thinking, is that all there is to it, and yeah you can do some cool things with the unit by itself but it really does need that external sequencer.

[reverberation]

Originally Posted by charlieclouser

The hardware units have all gotten pretty pricey lately - MS-20 goes for between $1,500 and $2,000, MS-10 is usually under $1,000, and SQ-10 and MS-50 usually around $1,000 each.

The MS-50 is the most expensive one. It's very rare and cost a bit more than the MS-20.

The 20 is one of my all time favorites ever. Had it for 17-18 years now.

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by paugui

It's all explained in that link

eric g's MS-rig

Opps, I missed that. Thanks

Never knew about those top ones

If only I'd bought all those MS20's years back in local rags for £200

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

Perfect thread to ask if any MS-20 owners feel they really need the MS-02?

For me it's a very useful box and I'm kind of shocked that no one makes a modern equivalent or even a straight reproduction. I know of one modular maker that offered some of the MS-02 functionality but that appears to be vapourware. I've considered making a go of a straight reproduction and/or making some custom boards and offering them as kits. I wonder if/when I'd get spoken too by Korg's legal department. :-)

Surely there's some Yamaha CS Mono owners who would want something like this too?

edit: With the prices people are asking for the MS-02, would a repro that cost 1/2 or 1/4 as much be a viable product?

Oh yeah, count me in!

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

Just today, I saw this. This is the 'synthtop' version, which appears to want to fit in with the MS gang. It's own VCO which can double as an LFO, Ring mod (either with the internal VCO or by two external signals), and a Stereo panner! What's not to like. It's like the MS-50's baby brother.

This looks cool!Will definitely check it out...

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

While the SQ-10 is pretty good I think pairing an MS-20 with the Doepfer Dark Time is a better bang for the buck.

Hey Rob, how do you pair your MS-20 with Dark Time?I'm thinking about making a special cable(trigger to s-trigger) for this purpose, since i have a Dark Time myself...

[Rob Ocelot]

Originally Posted by kevin nowhow

Hey Rob, how do you pair your MS-20 with Dark Time?I'm thinking about making a special cable(trigger to s-trigger) for this purpose, since i have a Dark Time myself...

Doepfer sells a cable that will convert from trigger to s-trigger, but I don't think it's terribly complicated -- I believe it's an inversion of the pulse signal. I don't have a Dark Time yet, but I've pretty much decided that it's going to be my future analog sequencer. As it happens I was able to score an MS-02 so I
can convert the trigger using that.

I'm still looking into making MS-02 reproductions. If anything, having a working unit gives me info on operating tolerances and component life.

[kevin nowhow]

Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot

Doepfer sells a cable that will convert from trigger to s-trigger, but I don't think it's terribly complicated -- I believe it's an inversion of the pulse signal. I don't have a Dark Time yet, but I've pretty much decided that it's going to be my future analog sequencer. As it happens I was able to score an MS-02 so I
can convert the trigger using that.

I'm still looking into making MS-02 reproductions. If anything, having a working unit gives me info on operating tolerances and component life.

Yes, it's a transistor & a resistor combined.But they say it's for s-trigger out to v-trigger in.What if you wanna go the other way?Plus it's 25€ for what seems to be a simple job...

I'm interested in the MS-02 clone thing, like i mentioned before.If you get somewhere with this let me know...