Moog Slim Phatty: how much detuning is normal?

[lysander]

I have never measured the tuning accuracy on mine when I had it, but I don't remember having any tuning issues after a warm up of around 1/2h ( and I have quite a low tolerance to tuning issues ).

If the tuning doesn't bother you when you are not actively measuring it then keep it, otherwise send it back.
It is a synth with a reputation for tuning issues though. Apparently the Little Phatty has better tuning.

[WDM]

Originally Posted by dswo

I know that switching to something with digital oscillators would fix this right quick. But it wouldn't have THAT sound. I also remember, from my guitar days, that real instruments go out of tune. At this point, I'm just trying to figure out whether my particular box is going out of tune faster than it should.

Thanks for sharing your experience with me.

What I would recommend you to do is to record some basic track with few parts on it for testing purposes.
The first part should be the chord progression played on digital synth (Piano, EP, etc) where the tuning is not an issue. Record it in your DAW as audio. You could just use blues chord progression in Cmaj, doesn’t matter.
Then, using the first part as a reference, record your bass, lead, and arpeggio part as audio track using slim phatty, one by one, with different patches. Pay attention to the tuning while tracking.

If, at the end, your track will sound in tune, you gonna live with your slim phatty a happy life. If not, I would return it.

The numbers are just numbers but if you couldn’t record your track in tune, that’s would be the problem.

[Gil missFlag]

I was one of the users who had a unit that drifted wayyy too much. Moog support were very nice and quickly replaced it with a new one that is much more stable, I've had it for 8-9 months with no real issues. However, even the new one drifts a bit after a half hour warmup - a few cents here and there. This is pretty normal.
My first unit, on the other hand would keep getting sharper even after 2 hours in a stable temperature.

You're right that pitch changes make the autotune go berserk, but only if you scroll to the tuning screen in the menu and play while it's autotuning (normally it stops tuning as soon as you start playing). If it does this I've discovered you can play the default C (should be 60.00) and if it doesn't manage to tune properly you can adjust the tuning knob to get it back to 60. But only when you're on the tuning screen.

[ozy]

Originally Posted by dswo

Because I'm paranoid/trying to evaluate a used unit, I switch to Fine Tuning at the end of every song and see how far it's drifted. Sometimes it reads 60.01 or 59.99, which is great, and sometimes it's drifted as much as 5 or 6 cents out (59.94...60.06).

don't do this to yourself. I mean, watching at the display and using autotune on a VCO.

In these terms, within these limits (5/6 cents when things go really bad), your phatty is working fine. Check "moog forums" for real horror stories. Yours is not.

I have been using the slim phatty for three months now, and I gave up expecting it to be in "instrumental" tune.

I treat it like I would treat a classic guitar.

If it plays in "human" tune [i.e., if my ear judges it to be in tune], it's fine for me.

I sometimes grab the "fine tune" and "osc2" knobs, when a patch's harmonics artistically require some flattening or sharpening with reference to the tune I am playing.

NO WAY it will stay in "instrumental" tune.

It takes it 30 minutes to get in tune,

I calibrate both the general tune AND the OSC2 once a week (after a dolis 2/(3 hours warmup)

and still I don't expect it to be in tune like the prophet08 [which btw needs filter calibration routine once in 2/3 months].

I bought the phatty to replace a modular-based minimoog emulation:

well, even with all its instability, the phatty is way better than tuning the "keyboard stretch" of a modular...

Welcome to the wondeful world of real analogue.

[mike vee]

Originally Posted by WDM

What I would recommend you to do is to record some basic track with few parts on it for testing purposes.
The first part should be the chord progression played on digital synth (Piano, EP, etc) where the tuning is not an issue. Record it in your DAW as audio. You could just use blues chord progression in Cmaj, doesn’t matter.
Then, using the first part as a reference, record your bass, lead, and arpeggio part as audio track using slim phatty, one by one, with different patches. Pay attention to the tuning while tracking.

If, at the end, your track will sound in tune, you gonna live with your slim phatty a happy life. If not, I would return it.

The numbers are just numbers but if you couldn’t record your track in tune, that’s would be the problem.

this is exactly what i did this weekend after finally getting it MIDId up. it was FAR out of tune with my other synths. autotune setting seemed to work.

[Jesse381]

I agree with ozy, just use your ears. I've had guitars that you can tune with a digital tuner to perfect tune, but then you play a chord at a certain spot on the fretboard and it just does not sound in harmony. No matter what the digital tuner said, I knew it had an intonation issue.

I don't think intonation is an issue you deal with on synths, but point is don't go by the meters. If you're playing it and suddenly something sounds out of tune and it bothers you, and it consistently happens, thats when you know you have a problem.

If you have yet to experience that and only think its out of tune because of the meter, then I'd say the synth is OK. If you are still concerned though, maybe take it in to a local music shop and have someone there play around with it and see what they think.

At the end of the day though, all that matters is how it sounds to you for your music, and if something doesn't seem right to you about its tuning, then send it back.

[lysander]

A bit off topic but I find it a bit embarrassing that Moog still has that many issues with tuning ( not to knock off the SP it's a great instrument ).
There's plenty of modular manufacturers that make much more stable VCOs out there, and without the silly autotune.

[lysander]

A bit off topic but I find it a bit embarrassing that Moog still has that many issues with tuning ( not to knock off the SP it's a great instrument ).
There's plenty of modular manufacturers that make much more stable VCOs out there, and without the silly autotune.

[atma]

5 or 6 cents doesn't sound like an abnormal amount of detuning for an analog.

[FilmNMusicman]

Originally Posted by atma

5 or 6 cents doesn't sound like an abnormal amount of detuning for an analog.

Yeah, compared to my older Sequential that's no too bad...

Is it a swaying 5 or 6 cents or is it constant. It's definitely less stable than all my DCO's

In reality my Moog is the most stable VCO I own.

[dswo]

I really appreciate the comments.

Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman

Is it a swaying 5 or 6 cents or is it constant?

If constant means it's always sharp or always flat, I guess it sways.

[ctrlshft]

Mine drifts a little, maybe up to 10 cents here and there, but honestly I'm just to the point now where I just warm it up ahead of time, and tune it quick before I start recording with it. It's pretty stable overall, nothing is ever gratuitously out of tune.

[networkacid]

Originally Posted by ctrlshft

I'm just to the point now where I just warm it up ahead of time, and tune it quick before I start recording with it.

This. With pretty much any analogue. Spending too much time on this is just another form of procrastination. The only time you should care is if it won't hold tune for more time than it takes to play your gig / record your song.