Step Sequencer with uneven harmonics?

[ripe]

I can't speak for VST or OSC communication, but for hardware sequencers speaking MIDI instead of CV, there isn't really a good method for communicating "uneven harmonics".

You would have to use Pitch Bend or some custom controller scheme to send anything more than the note values in the MIDI spec.

Of course for some completely self-contained system (synth+sequencer) you can have more control over parameters than MIDI would allow, or use CV control.

cheers
ripe

Originally Posted by greenman

Step Sequencer with uneven harmonics

what i dont get about most current step sequencers is that if you modulate a pitch you enter a steps value quite often as a note target, like c1 or c#3. Isnt a lot of the fascination of a Step sequencer that it plays what a mans hand doesnt play, including uneven harmonics?
I cant find a lot of stuff out there that does this. Even the Dave Smith Instrument sequencers or many Max 4 Live Step Sequencers or the dedicated Sugar Bytes tools seem to do this. Am I missing something? Of course when you buy a Doepfer module and connect it via CV then it will be uneven. Do any of you know more examples, also some in software? One i can think of right now is Reason Matrix connected with a CV in in Reason where the input sensitivity is scaled (as the step sequencers outputs 127 values anyway)

[Rogue Ai]

Use the curve instead of the note values in Matrix if you don't want standard note vaules. Or get an analog sequencer.

[foodeater]

Five12 numerology?

[the donal]

The Dark Time can be switched from free CV values on each step to quantising to notes (there's also a scale switch, but the software update seems to have never materialised).

[rockmanrock]

One trick to achieve this is to let the sequencer send out standard MIDI notes and 'fix' the problem at the other end - the synth itself. You need either a synth with good modulation that will allow you to scale the oscillator pitch to a non-Western scale, or if you've got a synth with an analogue filter that will oscillate and produce a sine wave, change the filter key tracking so the sine isn't perfectly in tune with MIDI notes.

[gremlin moon]

While I think I may be misunderstanding you. . .there are softsynths (Spectrasonics, Native Instruments) that support alternate tunings such as microtonal scales (up to 48 tones per scale), modern Wendy Carlos-type scales, Arabic, Gamelan, etc...which may be the easiest way to get uneven -- but musical -- results.

Additive synths (Alchemy, Cube) let you tinker with the harmonics directly and (in the case of Alchemy) link it in or modulate it with a step-sequencer.

[Bio]

Additive synths (Alchemy, Cube) let you tinker with the harmonics directly and (in the case of Alchemy) link it in or modulate it with a step-sequencer.

The OP talk about uneven harmonic but i think he mean alternative tuning.

Saw wave have both even and uneven harmonics
Square and triangle only have uneven harmonics.

But nothing to do with sequencer and tuning.

[silent5]

The Nord G2 approaches this a few different ways. The Note Sequencer deals with notes (shocking, I know) while the rest of the modules are variations on value sequencers. I usually use the "Level" sequencer for everything, including notes, because I also enjoy the idea of using a sequencer as something that spits out values rather than "notes".

But at the end of the day all of the sequencer modules in the G2 just spit out out numbers between 0 and 127 like the Matrix in Reason. These values can also be scaled and manipulated with other modules.

[Don Edgar]

Originally Posted by foodeater

Five12 numerology?

exactly.

[greenman]

thanks for all the answers.

yes, using matrix curve in reason is basically how i mean it and what i am looking for in other software. Event though its only 127 values in there its still quite cool as in reason i can scale the sensitivity. call it uneven harmonics or scales (with harmonics i was more referring to the overall sound result of combined tones/ not that they play chords, but they sequence or decay), basically what I mean is that there is a Step Sequencer that changes the pitch in a number based "percentage", not in a traditional scale, the finer the better. Lets say Step 1 is + 29,485%
Step 2 is + 15,823% pitch
to emulate something i guess we had with a Doepfer MaQ and and Analog System for example.
Yes, right, the problem can maybe be solved in the sound generator if it allows to scale the amount of change the synth reacts to freely (not just select an indian scale or something).
So maybe thats the question for now - which sound devices can do this. I remember there were a few, i have to check again. Plus are there Step Sequencers that - even better -deliver a finer resolution of value change than 127

I will try numerology, but its a host, not a plug-in right? The volta idea seems to do what I want too. Still Im surprised that there seem not a lot VST or AU units that can do this. I can try to do it in Kontakt 5 but the Step sequencer only modulates, so i would need another one running in sync for triggering, but the modulation step seq would now use every note generated by the script seq as a trigger, so it doesnt work...

[enossified]

Originally Posted by greenman

I will try numerology, but its a host, not a plug-in right?

The latest versions of Numerology can be run as a plugin. It's Mac only, BTW.

Old analog gear can do it because CV allows continuous pitch values.

Anything that uses MIDI (i.e. most DAWs) needs to use pitch bend, which is clumsy.

I suppose you could design a plugin with it's own step sequencer that offers continuous pitch control but I doubt there's enough of a market for anyone to develop it commercially.

[bug2342]

Sequencing pitch bend might help.
I think it is 14 bit ???
would be approx. 16000 steps.

The nice thing is , you can pick at your synth, what the 16k steps correspond to.

[greenman]

yes right, now were getting to the point.
Analog gear can do it, sure.
But im wondering which plug in can.
Modulating pitch bend is a way maybe...16.000 Steps would be a great resolution if the step sequencer delivers it too.
But there must be simultaneous triggering. For example if its only about modulating the pitch -this can be done with Modulation tools in Massive or Kontakt too if you change the Modulation amount. But that sounds really different to a Step sequencer that TRIGGERS Each step while at the same time delivers the pitch.

[Disco Cubist]

Originally Posted by Don Edgar

exactly.

Plus 1 million

Numerology has moved me away from hardware sequencers it's so flexible and addictive.

[bug2342]

Originally Posted by greenman

yes right, now were getting to the point.
Analog gear can do it, sure.
But im wondering which plug in can.
Modulating pitch bend is a way maybe...16.000 Steps would be a great resolution if the step sequencer delivers it too.
But there must be simultaneous triggering.

Lets see, what we can do...

First I finally looked up the Midi message, It´s:

EX LL HH

(in hexadecimal)
E being telling the Machine it´s a pitchbend.
X is the channel (1-16 = 1-F)
LL are the 7 lowest bits.
HH are the 7 highest bits.

So, yes 14 bits, a bit more than 16000 steps.

Please note, that the real pitch change will depend on your pitchbend settings.

In principle your DAW should be able to directly sequence this as a controller. It will just be a bit painful to sequence, since you have to put your triggers separately.

You could try dropping some MIDI processor in between. Not sure which ones can e.g. send a Note on when Pitch is changed???

Since it is a bit of a specific task it´s probably easiest to cook your own sequencer. If you have e.g. Reaktor, it should not be too painful.
Just grab one of the existing Sequencers rewire the outputs from Pitch to Pitchbend, the gates have a separate output anyway. You might have to feed the pitch out a default pitch.

I´m not sure how midi out works with the other toys, but PD, Max, Supercollider etc. should also do the job.

Edit: There is also the dirty hack version with some synths: Just cut down keyscaling for Oscillator pitch and filters etc.
You get less range, but finer pitching.