I have hardware but I don't have..

[Eric J]

Use the search, Luke...

Are summing mixers dying out of fashion?

ANALOG SUMMING COMPARISON (this time its different)

Summing an ITB mix: summing mixer or mic pre?

Neve 8816 Summing Mixer vs dangerous d box

[foodeater]

Yes, it's worth it without a summing box. I do think they can be a damn useful utility, but it's dependent on how you like to work. I use one because it makes it easier to use hardware with complex ITB setups (without accidentally screwing something up in the software!) not because it's inherently better sounding.

It's really easy and cheap (but time consuming) to DIY a passive mixer.

[Praxisaxis]

Originally Posted by foodeater

Yes, it's worth it without a summing box. I do think they can be a damn useful utility, but it's dependent on how you like to work. I use one because it makes it easier to use hardware with complex ITB setups (without accidentally screwing something up in the software!) not because it's inherently better sounding.

It's really easy and cheap (but time consuming) to DIY a passive mixer.

I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff but I've heard enough talk about electronics to know that a summing box is less complex than other stuff to build... Any good kits around on the internets for building one's own? Or mixers?

[MrTechno]

Originally Posted by studiomood

A summing mixer!

Am I wasting my money on expensive outboard processing if I choose not to use a summing mixer? I produce EDM so a summing box would be a PITA with all the routing, grouping I tend to do ITB.

So for people like me, who have a few (three in my case) outboard processors, (TC Pheonix Side Chain - TC Vulture - al.so Dynax 2) for group related uses, drum buss, digital synths, mix buss compression (also tracking my hardware synths but this isn't relevant here), is it all worth it without a summing box?

Thoughts?

A summing mixer with a patch bay will be the way to go if you continue on your outboard gear purchases. It will get rather messy for you otherwise.

In terms of sound I am not sure, I use a desk and I can hear the difference but this is my opinion.
What about a small 16 channel desk? and again it all depends on money and what you want to do.
I would suggest using the search function, tons of threads about this stuff, summing and so on.

[schmuck]

I was in a similar situation and tried out one of the passive summing boxes (& then trhough a preamp). I also thought that I could use a summing box if I anyway go out to all the outbard.

One big drawback for me was the gainstaging that got much more complicated. If for example a compressor is as an insert on the drum bus, and you want them louder, you just move the fader in the DAW. If that drum bus goes out to the comp and then into the summing mixer, you cannot do that anymore (unless you have a summing box with inserts and level settings of course).

This adds up quickly if you go through lots of outboard and preamps first before the summer (i.e. all outboard that has no easy unity setting will require rebalancing). Also, if one unit has a slight noisefloor, this noisefloor is constantly present throughout the track, unless you insert a HW gate afterwards...

Maybe I will need to try it again, but my first three attempts were not too great usability-wise.

[studiomood]

You know what thanks guys,

I really hate it when people on this forum tell someone to use the search function. My question, by the way was along the lines of "is outboard gear complimented by a summing mixer when one is working mostly ITB", not "is a summing mixer a good option". Therefore I thought it merited its own thread. I wanted to see if some people thought there was no point in having outboard without a summing set up. Really frustrated.

This first reply literally made me turn off gearslutz and not bother to check if other nice helpful people made the effort to give their opinion, like the replys that followed.

ANYWAY, to those that replied, thank you. I am pretty sure I'm not going to go down the summing route, it seems it may make things drastically more challenging for me in terms of workflow. I like the idea of sending something ITB out of my Orpheus, in most cases a group and compressing them OTB. In most cases this will be drum or mix buss, but also sending a soft synth through my Pheonix and/or Culture Vulture will give very pleasing results I can imagine.

I have too much going on ITB I think to worry about a summing option, I like to do a lot of grouping etc, which kind of wouldn't happen with a summing box, well, it could with a patch bay I'm sure, but it would be much more labourous, and recall would be an issue I guess. I could of course send groups out to individual channels, but I'm guessing the kind of defeats the purpose of a summing mixer, as they work best with individual sounds on each channel, separation etc.. But then I may be wrong?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

[rasmus]

Originally Posted by studiomood

...I could of course send groups out to individual channels,...

that! you just sum the groups on a summing box, that's why there is no pan or level setting. most times its just 4 stereo to 1 stereo, you can easily buildt one yourself, even incooperate it into a patchbay...

or get a DIY kit like this(out of stock right now):
Endless Summer Analog Summing Kit - D.I.Y. Recording Equipment

[nms]

A great way to incorporate a summing unit is sending groups out to the summing mixer and onto a compressor before going back in. You really want to avoid as many additional conversion stages as possible so with that you get the benefits of both with one conversion loop.

Personally, a summing mixer remains very low on my list and I won't go there without picking up enough high end conversion to handle the additional channels.