Spectralis in 2012

[droolmaster0]

Originally Posted by schmuck

Gentlemen

I have some Spectralis lust recently. I watched some videos, read forum posts and some of the manual. I have a good impression, but also saw some negative points about "unintuitive UI" and "bugs". But the OS has developed meanwhile.

Would use it as my "jam box" outside the studio. I know it sounds great so I am more interested in UI and bug issues. Currently I use a schrittmacher and microQ for this noodling around. It is nice but I just hate the cumbersome editing on the mQ and also that I have to lug two PSUs around (for the editing I bought a Q rack but got shafted by a seller with some knobs that do not work and life's just too short...). Same things annoyed me when I was using a laptop for this...soundcard, keyboard, blah..too cluttery for "on the go". Also I work with computers during the day...so a break from this is welcome. I often just fiddle a xoxbox or drum machine but it is not sooo musical (even for my archaic level ;-). I want something I can switch on and just do some stuff and if I have great ideas I will take them as the basis for a track in the studio. So it would be great to be able to record the midi out notes of the melody sequencer (drums secundary). Also I would use it without midi keyboard (it is fine to input notes as long as it more or less user friendly to do - which seems to be the case judging from the manual).

I am aware its sequencer is no schrittmacher but it can manipulate paramenters and all that. It seems like a little dream composing machine with drums, great mono synth, and sample/dsp polysynth...

I am not too scared by a learning curve, I also use an octopus and machinedrum and both needed a bit getting used to first. If the machinedrum had another few synth lines inside I would be completely happy with that one already. Thought about adding a monomachine or octactrack but its already two boxes to handle then - the single "all in one" spectralis appears MUCH more elegant in my situation.

So, I should try it out, isn't it? Any real big issues that you experienced on a recent OS version or something else that I should be aware?

Thanks!

My opinion, after trying one again a few months ago, is that it still is a pain to get around. I don't think that this has improved much.

I've used most of the instruments you've mentioned - Octopus, Schrittmacher, machinedrum...I think that the interface is harder to get around and more awkward than those. On the other hand - it sounds great, and the sequencer, while (as you said) isn't in the class of the schrittmacher (or Octopus), it does have some cool things in it - tracks can be of different lengths, there is a probability parameter.

There really isn't a huge difference between the version 1 and the version 2 - some cosmetics, and I think a larger storage capacity in the version 2, but the version 1 can sometimes be found for cheap. If you find one for a good price used, you can probably make your money back if you don't like it.

[supersuper]

Monomachine can do some limited but useful drums. Maybe get mono and ditch the md if you want the one box.

I have ruled out the teenage engineering op-1 for myself but have to say it ticks a lot of the boxes for what you seem to want.

[droolmaster0]

Sound quality is a subjective thing. However I think that the spectralis has a very different sound than the monomachine. I don't like the sound of the monomachine, personally. yeah, yeah - it's defenders will say that if you spend time programming it, you can overcome that, but I never found that I could get past what I think is a rather brittle sound, lacking the warmth and more analog nature of the Spectralis. Again - very subjective, and I"m not arguing that one is better than the other - just that someone who is interested in the Spectralis, may not like the sound of the synthesis sections on the monomachine. But the interface on the monomachine is much better, I think.

[schmuck]

many thanks for the feedback. Have to admit that especially droolmasters comments put me off it a bit - I know you have really USED a lot of sequencers and if you still find it a pain..hmmm...not such a good sign.

Thanks anyway. Should i stumble over one and try it, i will post again.

Edit: teenage engineering, yes, I had a look, but it did not really grab me. Same with the octratrack. Maybe I am missing out here, but sort of did not click with those two.

[bug2342]

Very short reply for now (just got an Accelerator update in my mailbox, have to play around with it).

I actually really like the Spectralis for "fooling around". Couple of things might be annoying:

- Arp still does not work
- muting for external synths is a pain

Some other stuff that does not bother me that much.

Polyphonic sequences are pretty much real time only (step recording is very limited) and has no editing. I like it, it forces me to eork like I would be a real musician.

Synth editing is not that painful. The (slightly simplistic, but nice sounding) digital polysynth is simple anyway.

The Asynth involves a bit of menue diving, but once you know what you are doing it´s not to bad. It´s a bit strange, that roughly half the potis in the synth section are mainly used as buttons when editing, but I got used to it.

Don´t get scared by the 32 (?) steps in the Oscillator menu, you rarely need most of them. I routinely set up 2 parallel, independent ASynths (one with 24db Filter, the other with 12 db), and it gets second nature after a while.

However it is not really a knobby Synth. Think classic digital synth editing. Not quite as minimal as a Fs1r, but it´s basically press a button, maybe step through a menu page or to, tweak, repeat.

Drum programming works like a dream. Stepsequencers are nice and powerful. I think the only thing you might be missing is intermodulation of the sequences. Tons of other fun stuff, like random ordering mini "Envelopes" (simplistic, but you can "chain" them), Glide, different length AND time clock division etc.

Fun stuff, probably would not pay the full price for a Spectralis 2 at the moment, but I´m very happy I got a Spectralis 1 roughly 1 year ago.

More later, have to play now.

[jarlywarly]

FWIW I lusted after a Speccie for a long time and eagerly saved my pennies for a purchase.

However, at the last minute I opted instead for a DSI Tempest. Primarily because of it's relative immediacy, but also no need to mess with samples, has a smaller footprint than the Spectralis, and was cheaper new. Also, I had contacted the Speccie dev several times but never got access to the forum, which was a bit off IMO. In contrast, I have actually seen some of my Tempest feature requests implemented by DSI. Top-notch support!

Speccie still sounds somewhat deliciously warmer, but for the price difference I got a nice FX unit to compensate. I am still very pleased with my decision, and my Speccie lust has completely wilted.

[schmuck]

Thanks for the great feedback!

Hmm...the polyphonic sequences in real-time only is a bit of a killer for me. I don't want a keyboard around with it, and I would especially like to experiment with programming intervals etc - i.e. I just want the oposite than "feeling like a real musician" when doing this ;_)

Synth engine I heard several times now that it is not a "grab & edit" kind of thing. I think I could be ok with creating a set of "bread and butter" sounds which I tweak a bit down the road. Are normal adjustments like envelopes and modulation (at least depht) easy to reach? even after two glasses of heavy red wine? (I had this with the microQ: setup a number of sounds that I use later, but then some normal adjustments in the "middle of the flow" just were a bit cumbersome).

External synth control issues and arp is less of a concern for me.

"Fooling around" sounds about right though

Tempest: is more of a drum machine to me (yes I know it can do tones as well but still). If I want drum machine fiddling I have many alternatives already, don't want to expand even further there i think. Or am I missing out on it?

[bug2342]

Just a quick remark, no time today:

If you want to program intervals you can always run several monophonic sequencers into the DSynth (or the Asynth and just pitch individual Oscillators).

Of course you have only 24 Sequencer Tracks in the current OS Version, so you won´t use your full polyphony (without using unison)...

[bug2342]

Originally Posted by schmuck

Are normal adjustments like envelopes and modulation (at least depht) easy to reach? even after two glasses of heavy red wine?

Well that obviously depends on how well you handle your wine...

Tweaks are mostly as hard or easy to reach as any other parameter. This is a bit different than the matrix editing concept of the Waldorfs or the Accelerator, where you just hit a button 1-3 times, tweak, repeat.

Most stuff is reachable with a reasonable number of key presses, once you know what you are doing, but you should definitely read the display all the time.

Random examples:
- Editing filter Envelopes: Hit the right button, you will have 4 parameters on the display being the ADSR, but the page button will step through the two filter volume Envelopes and the two cutoff Envelopes.

- Setting the Envelope amount for both filters at the same time is just a tweak of 1 button, to set it for an individual Filter you need to enter the Filter menu for the Filter. Again 4 parameters per page, but you need to pick the right one of 8 or 9 pages.

- Pitch envelope and LFO are quite well hidden (this really is the last example, but it will show you, why some people give up on this box): You need to hit the detune poti, which will get you into a list of 4 pages, 2 of them being the coarse and fine tune settings for each Oscillator. The fun thing is, that the pitch envelopes are submenus of the coarse tune and the pitch lfo is a submenu of the fine tune....

I think I mentioned before, that I really like the machine, and think it is OK to program, but as my examples show: even adding some tweaks requires a bit of concentration and you basically need to memorize the positions of some of the menus, for reasonably fast editing.

Hope that helps and hpe that it does not scar you away.
By the way: Did you consider the Accelerator, or is that one too big for you? It also does some quite fun sequencing and editing is quite a bit faster/simpler.

[schmuck]

Thanks a lot for these examples and your previous explanations, highly appreciated.

Have to admit the thread tamed my lust a bit. Which is outrageous considering we are on GS here lol. Will keep my eyes open if I stumble over one...

Accelerator: yes it is too big. I literally want to have something I can put on my lap or the coffee table etc.

cheers

[NuG3nda]

Originally Posted by schmuck

Thanks for the great feedback!

Hmm...the polyphonic sequences in real-time only is a bit of a killer for me. I don't want a keyboard around with it, and I would especially like to experiment with programming intervals etc - i.e. I just want the oposite than "feeling like a real musician" when doing this ;_)

In the Asynth, there are 3x trigger groups so you can do 3 note (modular) polyphonic chords (one trigger group could control 2 OSC´s detuned, the other two having its own OSC.. but the spectralis goes quite a bit further because you you can achieve melody in other ways like with a OSC sync step sequence FM or PM modulation and all poly-rhythmically.. this really expands the melodic fabric beyond just standard pitched notes and time signatures..

Right now I´m just starting to play with master lfo´s and TLM (pulsewith on all waveforms) this is similar to wavetable and results in some very moving oscillation, I should have played with this a long time ago but I´ve been busy experimenting with other things..the sonic scale is just massif, it´s the desert island synth and a sound-designers dream..

[acemonvw]

Hey schmuck,

You still looking into the spectralis or have you moved on?

At the end of 2010, my cats knocked over my 49-key midi controller and broke it. It was solely used to record notes into Garageband.

I knew nothing, literally nothing, about synthesizers, sequencers, or even what the hell MIDI was. The fact that I had to go buy a new controller made me start to look at... well, this site. And then I got GAS for... everything. I eventually was between a spectralis, a machinedrum, and a Electribe for my drum machine. I went with the spectralis because the owners took pride in their work (at the time) and because I really liked that it was an 'all in one' box. Now, the people that made it are never on the forums anymore, so it's frustrating not getting one's voice heard, but I still think the spectralis is an amazing machine.

My point about having a crappy m-audio 49-key keyboard and using Garageband was this: With the limited knowledge that I had, it took me only a little while to wrap my head around the ESSENTIALS of music making on the spectralis. It took me about a year to write this (Well, I wrote it in a week, but to get the capacity to write it...):

Spectralis and Korg Radias, MIDERA: The Cold Descent - YouTube

[dionysiananarchy]

i had one for about 5 or 6 years,

wrote a review about it here,


super well featured and horrible lacking, amazing sound quality, certain special features that are rare as ****, really cool, other ones that will drive you nuts,,,,, i kinda want another one, just cause i am so use to it, but then i think,,,, maybe not,,,,,,

i think the company is pretty much dead, if another update happens it will be a shock,

[tomazzzi]

This is a great machine but unfortunatly the support sucks.

We r waiting for an update to solve critcal bugs for lonnnnngggg time but nothing comes.

When you ask for news on their forum more than you would have to they just ban you.

They do great products but they have big problems to handle their buisness properly.

I can only rec to buy their stuff if you know what you buy.
Don't count on their promises, it's just lies.

[Psynthman]

Radikal Technologies isn't dead, Jorg is just entirely focused on the Accelerator right now. Everything on the Spectralis is more or less complete, and I've never had any bugs/glitches with it.

The synth engine isn't as horrible to learn as has been said, really, I think it's the easiest part of the Spectralis. The layout is kind of odd, but not difficult, just different. The only thing I think that requires some of your attention to learn is the sequencer, which is complicated by how complex and awesome it is, creates a large learning curve. But once you get it, everything is fairly logical in it's place. Honestly, if you're looking for something that does a whole lot and does it well, it's great. But it'll definitely take some time to get the hang of it. There are simpler and easier units out there for sure, but this is the best sounding all-in-one unit I've played.

I'm selling mine, I sent you a PM regarding that. Moving more into band oriented music, need cash for a new guitar amp and pedals, which ain't cheap.

[schmuck]

yes thanks. I covered the "spectralis ground" with a new laptop (blushes!!) and use it with external sequencers and an ipad. So far I am very happy, but still in the honeymoon...

[well2thebone]

psynthman, would you recommend one if the used just intended to use the synth engine and internal sequencer? I'v never used one, but I'v always heard they sound amazing, can do a tone of stuff, have a somewhat clunky interface, and have a OS that is not complete. Don't know how true that is, but as just a synth engine and sequencer, does it have a sound that could justify the cost?

[acemonvw]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

and I've never had any bugs/glitches with it.


I'm selling mine

Seriously? No bugs/glitches? I guess the latter comment makes sense with it.

The arpeggiator is broken, every time you use it for a short while you're forced to restart to spectralis just to use the "Asynth."

Other things aren't implemented, but were designed to be, such as the overdub feature and a lot of other little things that, if you press the wrong button, the whole unit goes into panic until you reset it.

There are bugs/glitches, but that said, it is a highly useable system and one that I don't think I'll be parting with. I use Maschine with the Virus TI and I make completely different music with that combination, but that's what I like about my spectralis, sort of forces me to write music I might not write otherwise (yeah, purely speculative, I suppose).

Originally Posted by tomazzzi

When you ask for news on their forum more than you would have to they just ban you.

I've been on the forum for about two years... I've never heard of anyone getting banned. Jorg just doesn't go onto the site anymore. On facebook, RT posts some things occasionally, and so does Jorg, but they don't say anything about updates for the spectralis or the accelerator. They're either secretly developing some awesome OS for the thing... or they gave up entirely. It's all speculation at this point...

Nothing wrong with getting the laptop and using it with an ipad though! Enjoy, and make some good music!

[schmuck]

Originally Posted by acemonvw

Nothing wrong with getting the laptop and using it with an ipad though! Enjoy, and make some good music!

w/o wanting to derail this too much...I have to say I am thrilled atm by the lemur templates for the few reaktor ensembles that are available. I hope some other (already existing for jazzmutant) will follow or I will have to lock myself in for a week to learn creating my own. Tremendous fun (not of the "let's compose a song" type but it certainly gets my creative juices flowing)!

[tomazzzi]

I've been on the forum for about two years... I've never heard of anyone getting banned

I v been banned, here is why :

I m an owner of the speckie for now 8 years.
I updated my speckie 1 to 2 hoping it will be more followed but it's not.
So i spent nearly 4000€ on this machine, i think i m in right to get a minimum of support.....
Like you told, there is still a lot of bugs unsolved, arp, unit freeze from time to time etc....
Jorg is always speaking about new features but nothing comes.
He comes from time to time on the forum to make promises when he wants to sell a new product and then nothing.
Most customers are just asking for bug fixes and do not care of the new features annonced ( we probably never see them anyway... )

I never been unpolite or anything i just told them that for me it's not a way to handle a proper buisness and treat customers who spent more than 3000€ on their products.
You can check my post on the forum, it's the same user name.

I will not buy another Radikal product for sure.
And now i rec people to do the same cause they really do not care about their customers, all they want is making money.

[Psynthman]

Originally Posted by acemonvw

Seriously? No bugs/glitches? I guess the latter comment makes sense with it.

The arpeggiator is broken, every time you use it for a short while you're forced to restart to spectralis just to use the "Asynth."

Other things aren't implemented, but were designed to be, such as the overdub feature and a lot of other little things that, if you press the wrong button, the whole unit goes into panic until you reset it.

There are bugs/glitches, but that said, it is a highly useable system and one that I don't think I'll be parting with. I use Maschine with the Virus TI and I make completely different music with that combination, but that's what I like about my spectralis, sort of forces me to write music I might not write otherwise (yeah, purely speculative, I suppose).

Honestly I've never had issues with the arp, but then I never used it much, so it's possible there's something off about it. And really, the only reason I'm selling it is cause I simply don't want to make that kind of music anymore. The spectralis is geared towards really odd groovy/glitchy type noises. You can get wonderful aphex-twin esque noises out of it, but I want to get more into playing guitar and such. If I had the money to have both my guitar gear and the speccie, I'd totally keep it, it's a unique synth and nothing else on the market sounds like it. But yeah, it's just not for me anymore.

[dionysiananarchy]

i had problems with the arp, it would be going fine, then all of a sudden decide it wanted to go /192 resolution, that doesn't sound good in most contexts.

you are selling it? how much?

[acemonvw]

Originally Posted by Psynthman

Honestly I've never had issues with the arp, but then I never used it much, so it's possible there's something off about it. And really, the only reason I'm selling it is cause I simply don't want to make that kind of music anymore. The spectralis is geared towards really odd groovy/glitchy type noises. You can get wonderful aphex-twin esque noises out of it, but I want to get more into playing guitar and such. If I had the money to have both my guitar gear and the speccie, I'd totally keep it, it's a unique synth and nothing else on the market sounds like it. But yeah, it's just not for me anymore.

Understandable, the arp issue is the worst when using the Asynth. If you use the arp with the Dsynth (sampled sounds), the problem does occur, but if you stop the synth, turn off the arpeggiator, then your fine, things work again, but the same is not true when using the arp with the Asynth. I just avoid it completely.

"I will not buy another Radikal product for sure.
And now i rec people to do the same cause they really do not care about their customers, all they want is making money. "

tomazzzi, that sucks. I wasn't aware at all of people being banned on the site, kinda crappy because EVERYONE complains on there, I remember seeing you there and posting. And yeah, Jorg isn't ever on the site. I think he's been on about 2 or 3 times in the past year. His most recent post was basically a :shock: emoticon, that was it. No explanation of where the OS stands, etc.

(Are you sure you're banned? You were last on Aug. 9th, 2012. Jorg hasn't even been on since then...)

I can understand that you don't want to buy another RT product, but I'm not sure that they're 'just doing it for the money.' I mean, the Spectralis is a solid product. It has bugs, but so do a ton of other instruments. I think they put a lot into this synth, and they're repaired/replaced people's synths when they've gone bad. Honestly, I doubt they're making a lot with their synths.

I will continue to recommend (with caution) that people look into the spectralis as a groovebox. Once you have the OS architecture (and bugs) figured out... it's very easy to get around and write some music!

[tomazzzi]

Are you sure you're banned? You were last on Aug. 9th, 2012. Jorg hasn't even been on since then

Information

You have been permanently banned from this board.

Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

A ban has been issued on your username.

( he banned me the day he posted his smiley ...)

Fortunatly he can't ban me from others forum so i can still inform other people about their way to proceed.

I can understand that you don't want to buy another RT product, but I'm not sure that they're 'just doing it for the money.' I mean, the Spectralis is a solid product. It has bugs, but so do a ton of other instruments. I think they put a lot into this synth, and they're repaired/replaced people's synths when they've gone bad. Honestly, I doubt they're making a lot with their synths.

I will continue to recommend (with caution) that people look into the spectralis as a groovebox. Once you have the OS architecture (and bugs) figured out... it's very easy to get around and write some music!

I was a big fan of their products unfortunatly they don't know how to run a proper buisness and treat customers, who spent a lot of money on their products, with respect.
A lot of people are asking for at least a timetable for the firmware and the only thing Jorg is able to do is coming on the forum to post a smiley and ban people who asks a little too much for him.
Yeah the speckie is a good product, but there s still a lot of stuff to be fixed : freezes, bugs, non working features etc...
The majority of users do not care of the new features Jorg announced ( we ll probably never see them anyway ...), they just want the bugs to be fixed and the non working features to be removed from the menus, then the machine will work as stated in the manual ! ( there is a law for that ! )
I have the speckie since it's out, in 8 years you can't imagine how many times i heard promises from RT.
The first one is clearly stated page 138 in the manual :

So far, this application is only available for the PC but we
promise to publish a MAC version soon

After 8 years there is still no mac version of the editor.....
Im tired of RT lies that is why i will never buy any of their products again and i will not recommand them unless the person know exactly what she is buying and doesn't exept any update.

[acemonvw]

That's a bummer man, I had no idea. And it's a bad idea to ban someone for complaining about the OS and the promises that were made... because, well, now here you are, complaining to the public. I don't think you were being disrespectful, trolling, or anything else.

Anyway, I just picked up an MC-909 and... honestly, the workflow makes no sense to me compared to the spectralis. It could be that I'm just used to the spectralis, but it really bothers me with the MC-909 that you have to individually save patches, patterns, and songs separately. I think patch tweaks should be saved within the pattern, but... maybe that's just me. I want to leave my patch edits with a pattern, not to reuse later.

I have been told that most grooveboxes (MPCs, Electribes, etc) save patch edits within patterns of songs, so I'm confused as to why the MC-909 is different...

[acemonvw]

To anyone still interested in the Spectralis, I uploaded a video on youtube demonstrating some of its unique features...

I know it's commonly looked at as a complex synth that's hard to use, when compared to the other grooveboxes, but I still maintain that it's fairly userfriendly, despite being a bit menu-driven. I have found it far more fun and spontaneous than things like the MC-909...

This demonstrates what can be done with only one oscillator and a few samples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6c794s-O_4

[dionysiananarchy]

making me want to get one of those again, they sound sooo great,

[rids]

At least there is a PC editor for the Spectralis. I've been trying to find a Quasimidi Polymorph editor to no avail. You could always buy a cheap PC laptop and just use the PC editor for the Spectralis. Or just get VMware Fusion or Parallels.

[acemonvw]

Originally Posted by dionysiananarchy

making me want to get one of those again, they sound sooo great,

Yeah, I love it, despite the bugs that are present. I just know how it works better than I know any other groovebox though. Also, I can't get my virus to sound like it (of course, I can't get it to sound like my virus... or my korg radias that I no longer have). It's just a fun tool. I was lucky enough to just buy one when I didn't understand what the bugs were. I even had to replace the internal harddrive twice ALMOST losing all of my data (this isn't common, however)... But the positives outweigh the negatives for me.

And I don't know who's owned the Speckie 1, but I wonder how easy it is/was for them to slide their finger across the bottom row of pads to activate them. It seems like that was why they switched to small push buttons, which may have made this easier to activate notes?

If anyone is interested in the mk1 vs the mk2, I like having a large sample library in the device. You can route these sounds to the filters, sequence when the filters open, and come up with some cool sequences. That said... I think the mk1 looked cooler .