Roland TR-909 Hardware Revisions?

[CoolColJ]

I used to have a 909 that had softer putty kick that was more like a 808's in certain parts of the range. I've heard this style of kick in a few tracks

The other type of 909 has that big, round and beefy kick

These are the 2 main distinctions I'm aware of

[Acid Mitch]

There was changes to the hi hats, rimshot and toms.
I'm pretty sure they are documented near the back of the service manual.

[xanax]

i wouldn't worry too much, those variations are likely minor.. i haven't really heard a "bad" 909... kick can (and should) be processed to liking. i'm sure you're going to love it no matter what the revision, consider yourself lucky if it's in good condition, these units are getting rare and their owners rarely let go of them... (even though mine has been acting up lately, i will never let it go). concerning the OS, v4 is easily obtainable but i wouldn't worry about upgrading it unless you're having midi timing issues..

[thinlazy]

The hardware revisions to the TR-909 are discussed in this youtube video

A close up look at the Roland TR-909 part 1 - YouTube

[audioconsult]

older is allways better ..except you get one of the überrare V2 rom versions.. the latest models..

in case you get one of them its beneficial to remove the sound upgrades because they was done to make the 909 sound less electric..

The biggest critic point on the 909 back than was that it wasnt as real sounding as a linn.. not acoustic drumset alike enough..

But what made the 909 big in electronic music was its electric sound. not the natural touch

[AJ Reynolds]

it sounds like you got the worthless 909. i actually recycle electronics so if you want i'll give you £20 for it.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

it sounds like you got the worthless 909. i actually recycle electronics so if you want i'll give you £20 for it.

yep..these low quality 909´s are a mess.. i give you 40.-

[CoolColJ]

That's one of the weaker kick ones in the vid I think

if I can dig up some of my old tracks from back when I first started - cheesey - they will give you a good idea what mine sounded like.

[vizon]

interesting.. so i guess if the serial is < 381500, it is all the original sounding sounds. they changed the kick after 381500 to a harder kick it seems...

hopefully the one i bought is lower than 381500... however, if it is not is it at all possible to reverse these hardware alterations?

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by vizon

interesting.. so i guess if the serial is < 381500, it is all the original sounding sounds. they changed the kick after 381500 to a harder kick it seems...

hopefully the one i bought is lower than 381500... however, if it is not is it at all possible to reverse these hardware alterations?

yes..easily.. and not all hardware revisions was bad.. the tape interface update and power supply update are good things

[atsushi_hoshiai]

The hardware changes are listed in the service manual.
Soundwise they were as follows:

from #381500:
-Bass Drum ENV3, C9 from 0.22µF to 0.33µF to expand the TUNE range

from #415300:
-Rim Shot OSC3, R417 from 12k to 3.3k for more realistic sound
-HiHat, C134 from 10µF to 0.01µF for rolling off low frequencies

from #426700:
-TOM NOISE, C54 from 2.2nF to 4.7nF, R194 from 47k to 100k to emphasize the attack of the Toms

All changes are minor changes. But what can be clearly heared is the change in the Rim Shot. The older one sounds much lower, punchier.. The new one sounds kinda higher pitched (due to the fact, that OSC3 is running at higher freq now), maybe even more realistic. I prefer the old version.
BTW the 909 Rimshot is based around 3 bridged-T-filters which are well known from the 808 Bass Drum. All filters are triggered and produce a damping oscillation at different freq each.

[CoolColJ]

There has to be more than tuning range change on the kick, because my kick was not that great on my 909, small and putty, I took it to my local Roland tech and they expanded the tuning range and made it sound worse - I sold it straight after!

More like a pitch envelope change as well

[ilovesound]

Interesting topic. I was about to take my 909 to Roland here in Canada for a look over. I have a 44XXXX machine. Any recommendations about getting things changed?

Not clear on what kick revision is better? A higher or lower serial number.

Thanks!

[atsushi_hoshiai]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

There has to be more than tuning range change on the kick, because my kick was not that great on my 909, small and putty, I took it to my local Roland tech and they expanded the tuning range and made it sound worse - I sold it straight after!

More like a pitch envelope change as well

TUNE on the 909 is indeed a pitch envelope. When you extend the range too far, it really sounds fu**ed up.
Anyway, this together with an envelope whose shape looks like the envelope of a compressed bass drum gives the 909 the punch...

[atsushi_hoshiai]

Originally Posted by ilovesound

Interesting topic. I was about to take my 909 to Roland here in Canada for a look over. I have a 44XXXX machine. Any recommendations about getting things changed?

Not clear on what kick revision is better? A higher or lower serial number.

Thanks!

Forget it please! Buy the 909 in the best condition you will find. Don't search for certain serial numbers! It makes no sense. The newer revisions might have a bit more TUNE range on the Bass Drum, but the Rim Shot sounds much better on the old revisions. I'm glad my 909 is from one of the first batches..

[xanax]

i think i'd rather have a wider tune on the kick then a lower rimshot, fortunately it appears my 909 is a later rev... but obviously i wouldn't really care much if i was in the market for one today, i'd also just got for the one in better shape. out of curiosity i would be interested in hearing the different rev bd,rs,hh,tt ..

[BM0]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

I used to have a 909 that had softer putty kick that was more like a 808's in certain parts of the range. I've heard this style of kick in a few tracks

The other type of 909 has that big, round and beefy kick

These are the 2 main distinctions I'm aware of

Same here. The "softer" kick 909 I have is in the 3xxxxx range. The "harder" kick 909 I had was in 4xxxxxx. I like the softer kick. Sounds more "electronic" to me.

[vizon]

Originally Posted by atsushi_hoshiai

Forget it please! Buy the 909 in the best condition you will find. Don't search for certain serial numbers! It makes no sense. The newer revisions might have a bit more TUNE range on the Bass Drum, but the Rim Shot sounds much better on the old revisions. I'm glad my 909 is from one of the first batches..

You seem like a well-informed engineer on the topic of the TR-909s.. is there a way to easily have reverse these changes to the kickdrum / rimshot / toms?

How much might something like this cost?

[CoolColJ]

Here is what the softer puttty 909 kick sounds like

Now the harder 909 kick variants can sound sound like this, but my unit could not be adjusted to sound like the bigger and harder kick types

[Acid Mitch]

Originally Posted by vizon

You seem like a well-informed engineer on the topic of the TR-909s.. is there a way to easily have reverse these changes to the kickdrum / rimshot / toms?

How much might something like this cost?

It's just a few component changes. Will cost you more for labour than the parts. The parts are cheap as chips.
If your tech is capable of doing the changes he'll be just as capable of swapping the compoinents back to undo the changes.

[atsushi_hoshiai]

Originally Posted by vizon

You seem like a well-informed engineer on the topic of the TR-909s.. is there a way to easily have reverse these changes to the kickdrum / rimshot / toms?

How much might something like this cost?

Yeah from component point of view it's really easy, e.g. in case of the Bass Drum, it's just replacing that concerning cap from 0.33uF back to 0.22uF.
The most time consuming problem about that is the disassembly of the 909. The small pot knobs are sometimes hard to remove and you have to remove the mainboard to get access to the component side. Quite a lot of work for minimal effort.. So most of the cost you will pay would be for the disassembly and assembly work of the machine. The replacing of the cap itself takes 2 minutes and the cap costs 20 Cents or so...

Before trying to optimize the sound of the Bass Drum, I would rather do a recapping of the machine (replacing all electrolytic caps). Since the machine is almost 30 years old now, the electrolytic caps lose more and more of their capacitance. All electrolytic caps in the signal path might have more impact to the sound than that "esoteric" serial number discussion =)))

In the end you will see that even 909s within the same serial number range, will sound different. I guess the 909 won't be the sole source for bass drums anyway, so there is no point getting the perfect 909. It's hard enough to find a 909 in good shape these days anyway. And every 909 will sound like a 909...

Again, from engineering point of view it makes much more sense to replace components which degrade due to age. This is mostly the case with electrolytic caps.

[binman_uk]

apologies for bumping an old thread.
just wanted to say that i've never been 100% happy with the sound of the toms on my 909.. they've always sounded too "clicky" and emphasise the attack but i thought i must be imagining it :p.
mine's serial number 435,xxx.

this thread explains why, as anything after 426,700 had a change to "Emphasizes the attack of TOMs".

interesting. i've had mine for about 6 years and now i know i'm not going mad