Can cable adaptors degrade sound in any way?

[foodeater]

Not really. Sometimes with cheap adapters they get micro phonic or radio phonic.

I think overall it's worth it to use balanced (aka stereo) 1/4 cables as much as possible to reduce your chances of ground hum.

[mike vee]

yes it would be bad

rca is not balanced. switch to all balanced cabling

[pounce]

Yes

Adapters create a possible failure point and often slightly reduce the signal going through them as compared to a proper cable with the correct ends on them from the get go.

Whether or not you would want balanced cables depends on what you are connecting. If its synth outputs they are not likely to be balanced. However, a proper good quality cable is always a good thing.

[sleepwalker]

Don't worry about it.

[aunshui]

Originally Posted by pounce

Yes

To this day, I have not seen a shred of compelling evidence supporting the ridiculous claims some of these manufacturers (cough monster cough) make about their cables. Especially to consumers, which is just abusive becasue they really don't know any better.

Adapters create a possible failure point and often slightly reduce the signal going through them as compared to a proper cable with the correct ends on them from the get go.

I see your point about the "failure point" (the more possible points of failure in a system, the more likely the chance of failure - simple probability), but what this "slightly reduced signal" you're talking about?

a proper good quality cable is always a good thing.

Sure, you probably wouldn't want to use an instrument cable to drive a speaker with 10k watts. But outside of that? Is there really that much of a difference between one cable and another? By their very definition there shouldn't be, the cable should just deliver the signal from A to B without affecting it at all. Sure, you want a robust cable that won't break, but like I said, I haven't found any evidence about once cable type affecting the signal in a different way than another, and I've been looking for ten years.

So,

Originally Posted by gr8ape

Would such a minor thing affect sound in a significant way?

Originally Posted by sleepwalker

Don't worry about it.

[JSt0rm]

send a sinewave out of your converters at 1khz -20dbu and return it to a input and see if there is a change.

[CoolColJ]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

send a sinewave out of your converters at 1khz -20dbu and return it to a input and see if there is a change.

from my recent tests sinewave sweeps do not tell the whole story...
Lynx Hilo Loopbacks with different cables

This should sound flat, but it does not measure harmonic distortion, jitter and reflections inside the cable/connector, microphonics, transient response and short decay broad range sounds act different to sustained sinewaves

All my cables showed the exact same sweep results, but they all sound different when driving my Event Opals from the Hilo....
Frequency in 0.5db steps on the left vertical axis, phase responce on the right vertical axis - which is essentially ruler flat


I've used adapters - XLR to TRS and they sounded OK. Infact I used a set with the above loopback.
I also have 1 foot cables with a Neutrik female TRS connector on one end and male RCA on the other - this is the better way to go - I had Redco custom make me these cables
They put less physical stress on the connector

[JSt0rm]

dunno man. I fire 1khz tone at -20dbu no sweeps. This tells me 2 things. 1 null. 2 gain stage issues.

[pounce]

Originally Posted by aunshui

To this day, I have not seen a shred of compelling evidence supporting the ridiculous claims some of these manufacturers (cough monster cough) make about their cables. Especially to consumers, which is just abusive becasue they really don't know any better.



I see your point about the "failure point" (the more possible points of failure in a system, the more likely the chance of failure - simple probability), but what this "slightly reduced signal" you're talking about?



Sure, you probably wouldn't want to use an instrument cable to drive a speaker with 10k watts. But outside of that? Is there really that much of a difference between one cable and another? By their very definition there shouldn't be, the cable should just deliver the signal from A to B without affecting it at all. Sure, you want a robust cable that won't break, but like I said, I haven't found any evidence about once cable type affecting the signal in a different way than another, and I've been looking for ten years.

So,

ok

Reducing failure points is a big deal. Just having the correct cable the first time is the pro answer here.

Metal to metal contact connections provide opportunities for oxidation or weak contact or could be of worse quality than a good quality cable without the adapters. They at least provide a possible weak spot for the audio passing through them.

I think getting good quality cables should always be the goal. Proper shielding, nice high quality ends (not molded plastic). In the case of mic cables I always prefer star quad.

I am not talking about exotic stuff, but there are considerations of build quality, shielding, connector quality, and quality of materials that can affect both the audio and durability of said cable. Seeing how cables are frequently the weak link and the cause of issues in studios and live sound systems it is wise to invest in solid quality cables to minimize the possibility of bad cables causing issues. RF rejection and impedance are just normal things that can effect the way a cable handles the audio signal passing through it.

I like mogami brand cable and am not shy in making my own, or am otherwise happy to have redco, pro co, or horizon brand cables around. Just get good quality stuff that is made well, well shielded, good connectors, and less likely to cause issues later. Seems like obvious advice really. Sure, cable all ought to deliver the same signal from one place to another but cables with better shielding, proper impedance, better jacket and connectors, etc. are more likely sound good and not cause issues over the long run and are recommended because not all cables are created equal.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by gr8ape

Kind of a strange question I guess, but here goes:

I have a bunch of 1/4 to rca cables (used with my soundcard). Im getting a new soundcard, which has 1/4 outs and ins. Would using rca to 1/4 adapter for my cables change anything? As in the cable would somehow be of "lesser quality"? Would such a minor thing affect sound in a significant way?

yes.. bad adapters can screw things.. but rather as a matter of dirt and wear out, what happens quickly on cheap adapters.. so plug them once and never touch them again.. than you should be safe for some month or years....

worse are the cheap rca cables.. the thin black ones with the molded white and red rca conectors..theese are crap and seriosly can degrade a live performance and recording... especially when they are longer than 20 inches...

They are actually the source of the cable cult in the hifi world.. in relation to them any standard studio cable is a high improovement in sound quality..

But its rather questionable whether super expensiv monster cables give further improovements..seeing that a standard belden scored the second place in hifi freak listening test.. where all other test objects was in the x100.- per meter department..and the winner was allmost 1000.- the meter with pure gold conductors and finger thick...while the belden is around 1.- per meter..

standard chinese crap rca cable is the 0,05 .- per meter department..or less

but be carefull..ther are cable on the market that look from the outside thick..but inside is just the same standard thin chineese unsymetrical cable with the monster high capacity and bad and less conductive copper..giving a great passive filter this way.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm

send a sinewave out of your converters at 1khz -20dbu and return it to a input and see if there is a change.

thats not a valid test because the impendance matching within one soundcard should be ok and desgned to be on the safe side.. but what happens between your soundcard and the stage mixer? under load.. and what happens above 20K?

a good audio cable should be flat up to 100khz..one for digital signals even higher.. and for video signals it should be flat into the megaherz range..

so forget to measure cable with your soundcards,, ears are a beter tool for this.. and big pa systems.. there you have a day night difference between a 5 meter cheapo rca .. a thing many clubs offer to you to connect to their dj mixer.. and your own good cable..

more lowend and highs... tested just lately from a RME fireface into an allen&heath xzone mixer.. i suggest to try that yourself one day and you never touch the simple rca cables again.

[Reptil]

Standard Belden or Canare is perfect price/quality.
Go for 110 Ohm cable (for digital applications). cheaper than the esotheric Mogami etc. and just as good. example: Canare Corp.: AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable: 110 ohm AES/EBU digital audio Cable(DA206)
Also two wire cable (microphone cable) is mostly cheaper than one wire cable.
I've found the old blue-grey "silverwire" with the PVC isolation from broadcast studios of the seventies/eightties is fantastic quality. you'd have to hunt ebay.

AVOID adapters IMO. they work, and aren't bad, but contacts will wear out because of mechanical stress and become intermittent over the years.
Wiring your own cables is easy but time consuming (depending on the amount of course).

[pounce]

Originally Posted by Reptil

Standard Belden or Canare is perfect price/quality.
Go for 110 Ohm cable (for digital applications). cheaper than the esotheric Mogami etc. and just as good. example: Canare Corp.: AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable: 110 ohm AES/EBU digital audio Cable(DA206)
Also two wire cable (microphone cable) is mostly cheaper than one wire cable.
I've found the old blue-grey "silverwire" with the PVC isolation from broadcast studios of the seventies/eightties is fantastic quality. you'd have to hunt ebay.

AVOID adapters IMO. they work, and aren't bad, but contacts will wear out because of mechanical stress and become intermittent over the years.
Wiring your own cables is easy but time consuming (depending on the amount of course).

add mogami to the list. mogami is excellent, and I love to make my own cables with it.

[Reptil]

I scored some secondhand mogami snakes off ebay some time ago (studio going out of business). indeed they are very good.

[audioconsult]

Originally Posted by Reptil

I scored some secondhand mogami snakes off ebay some time ago (studio going out of business). indeed they are very good.

mogami is a studio standard.. its advantage is its flexilility.. so better for mobile applikations.. for fixed installations i prefer Belden.. holds its position and shortest installation time. Audio quality is good too.. Dont think that mogami sounds better.. but some claim that to be the case.. but i guess thats because mogami looks better.. not because of anything you can hear.

cannare is very rugged.. they are a therefore favorite of the broadcast industry ..but installation times are very high.. i hate do deal with it actually..

[pounce]

My "day job" is large scale live sound and mogami is a great brand for us. Belden is a close second. I concur, canare is harder to work with. All sound fine.

[golden beers]

i noted some time ago that some ready made cheap cables increase ground hum and generally sound shite for what ever reason. nothing scientific about that, but it's real.

regarding adapters, it depends on the situation and quality of them. if for instance, if you're unplugging and re-plugging them all the time, or if you were using them in a live situation i would say: no don't do it

on the other hand if you have a couple of synths you want to permanently connect with adapters and have no plans on moving the gear around or unplugging them, i would say: that's fine. i've had my JP8 connected with XLR adapters into balanced Jacks for years, no problems.

[JSt0rm]

Originally Posted by audioconsult

thats not a valid test because the impendance matching within one soundcard should be ok and desgned to be on the safe side.. but what happens between your soundcard and the stage mixer? under load.. and what happens above 20K?

a good audio cable should be flat up to 100khz..one for digital signals even higher.. and for video signals it should be flat into the megaherz range..

so forget to measure cable with your soundcards,, ears are a beter tool for this.. and big pa systems.. there you have a day night difference between a 5 meter cheapo rca .. a thing many clubs offer to you to connect to their dj mixer.. and your own good cable..

more lowend and highs... tested just lately from a RME fireface into an allen&heath xzone mixer.. i suggest to try that yourself one day and you never touch the simple rca cables again.

I use all mogami cable. Mostly balanced gear. When I do a sine wave loopback Im looking to see if the signal has changed from 1khz -20dbu after it travels thru a piece of gear.

I also use 1khz -20dbu tone to calibrate the dac (with variable trims) to 1.223 volts.

I am not using 1khz tone to make a quality judgement about the audio. I am also not using 1khz tone to calibrate the speakers. For this I use -20dbu pink noise.

I just realized you maybe intended to quote someone else...

[gr8ape]

Hah I thought no one answered this thread, thanks for the answers ill be reading through it

Originally Posted by golden beers

on the other hand if you have a couple of synths you want to permanently connect with adapters and have no plans on moving the gear around or unplugging them, i would say: that's fine. i've had my JP8 connected with XLR adapters into balanced Jacks for years, no problems.

that is the plan indeed

[robkramble]

There's a reason punk, drone, sludge and noise music works.

If it's good music, it'll come through the crappiest equipment. So buy a Behringer and work on your soul.