should MOTU update UNISYN?

[lunaticpark]

I think, they should, because the problem of not having a good universal editor comes up quite often, so there could be a (niche) market for it.
I would by it.

[AJ Reynolds]

i want an editor for my Casio CZ-5000 so would buy this if they updated.

[Yoozer]

Everything in there is probably still Carbon, porting to Cocoa is not so easy.

[pounce]

I wouldn't say the port was easy, but there is so much there in terms of profiles and support that I'd love to see them do it.

I -suppose- you call the market "niche", but the market is everyone with a hardware synth new or old. So that still is a decent market. They were used to marketing DP to mac users only, so an editor librarian for mac and pc that runs on current os's should be a decent sized market. Or at least as large as the DP market in general and that means I think it's worth it.

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[CoolColJ]

Sounddiver

[pounce]

I'd settle for Sounddiver, I'd rather have Unisyn.

I thought this might count as the beginnings of a petition. It's a forum that lots of hardware users participate in.

[greggybud]

I would love to see this!

I have a dedicated PC running Windows 98 with Unisyn and nothing else on it. (except MidiOX) to edit and control numerous rack synthesizers from the 1990's. I spent hundreds of hours tagging patches and developing huge libraries and I'm not about to let all the work go out the door.

I have even begun collecting parts for Windows 98 computers anticipating the day when my old PC breaks down.

I'm in the process of seeing if Windows 7 can run Windows 98 virtual but with the midi in's and out's. I have a computer guy who is working on this and he says "in theory" it should work. So this is how much I like Unisyn and wish to keep it going.

Here are more details:
How to get a midi port working in Windows 98 VIRTUAL?

What I fear from MOTU's perspective is the reality of hardware vs. software and the fact that it would be at best a niche product. I don't think MOTU is into that. But I wish MOTU would sell Unisyn to someone else who had the resources to develop it.

To keep things in perspective, Native Instruments didn't even think it was worth their resources to keep Kore, in the software realm alive...which is sort of the equivalent of a midi editor/librarian plus a lot more.

[LNerell]

Take a look at this thread, they claim it works up till 10.6:

MOTUNATION • View topic - How I got Unisyn to working G5 10.5 > MacPro 10.6

Anyone know if this is true? I've been looking for a new synth libarian for a bit now since upgrading from a G5 to an Intell Mac Pro. Sounddiver seems to crash a lot and the Midiquest demo doesn't seem much better so far.

[boon]

Originally Posted by LNerell

Take a look at this thread, they claim it works up till 10.6:

MOTUNATION • View topic - How I got Unisyn to working G5 10.5 > MacPro 10.6

Anyone know if this is true? I've been looking for a new synth libarian for a bit now since upgrading from a G5 to an Intell Mac Pro. Sounddiver seems to crash a lot and the Midiquest demo doesn't seem much better so far.

it does work up to 10.6 but not at al after that.. not even a little.

i used to use it w/o any problems aside from the odd communication error or whatever. i wish it worked in 10.7.x i'd still use it if it did.

it does need a real update though. it's pretty ugly and the UI looks like it came out of Mac OS 7.x or something.

i really doubt they'll upgrade it. i think they'd be more likely to make some kind of iOS editor.

there are many iOS editors, some free, for hardware synths on the app store.

not really a unisyn solution but it's something.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by pounce

I thought this might count as the beginnings of a petition. It's a forum that lots of hardware users participate in.

Lots of hardware users with vintage equipment that doesn't talk MIDI anyway. Editors do not make much sense on a JP8 even if it had the capacity to do something with MIDI data. Lots of new machines get their dedicated editors in VST plugin form.

Most importantly: online petitions do not work. Sending letters on paper does.

Originally Posted by Deleted Userc

A good priced universal editor THAT THE USERS CAN GROW THEMSELVES within reasonable effort should be good business.

So what's wrong with the aforementioned JSynthLib and Ctrlr? Because those allow users to contribute. They're open source so you don't have the problem that MOTU has right now in the sense that nobody else can contribute or update the code. If they happen to be stagnant; well, so is Unisyn.

Synth editing is a "solved" problem; draw a user interface element and tell it to send a particular MIDI signal. When receiving a patch, pry it apart into its separate values and let the interface elements reflect those values.

However, it's also charity. You're continuously making stuff for other people and other brands, who will simply not return the favor or dedicate resources, because those are legacy products and any form of support besides stocking spare parts costs too much.

Just imagine one that is portable, like for the iPad, for example.

So yeah, uh..

MATRIXSYNTH: iControlMIDI (ugly as hell, but does the job)

MATRIXSYNTH: TouchOSC (prettier)

It still requires the user to come up with the layout for a particular synthesizer. Now, what MOTU could do would be to release any configuration files for Unisyn - those probably contain the useful stuff (e.g. which sysex or nrpn message has which range and does what for which synth). You'd have to write a genericized translator for that which can turn it into Ctrlr or JSynthLib format and that's it.

[pounce]

Ok yoozer, you seem not interested. Got it. Fine. I've got analogs without midi, and others you could argue are easily edited on the hardware. Otoh, I also have rack synths, synths hat I have many patches for, and dealing with creating performance banks and patch management is a big thing for me. I would make use of an editor librarian a bunch.

Unsyn already has profiles I want, and I just want to see the software not go away.

There are some other comments you've added that I don't agree with, but I'll skip that for now. What I hoped to see is anyone interested in Unisyn chiming in in this thread. When it's been up for awhile I'll bring it to the attention of MOTU and see if they can be convinced to not let Unisyn become abandonware.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by pounce

Ok yoozer, you seem not interested. Got it. Fine.

No, that's not it.

Do you have a realistic estimate of how much work is going to be involved? Because that's the same estimate the people at MOTU are going to make in order to say yay or nay.

Option one: they just sit on the IP and let it rot. This costs them nothing, except for space for the source files on the backup drive. This is the status quo for many companies - it's what emagic's SoundDiver does as well, and the sad end for many pieces of software.

Option two: They release it and the community can pick it up. The ideal solution, because that should cost them nothing, right? No - any third party bits have to be accounted for. If there's IP involved they have to be replaced or ripped out, so it's still going to cost programmes time to familiarize them with the code again and comb it for any infringing stuff; any calls to third party libraries or licensed pieces of code will have to go. They still own the trademark to the name Unisyn so they'll have to release it under another name or let go of that. Or worse, they have pieces of code still in use in their other products so giving those up would mean giving away trade secrets or whatnot.

Option three: they pick it up, brush it off and make it work on newer machines. More programmers are going to be involved and they'll have to spend more time to get everything in working order, because releasing it for the community means you can say "any bugs are not our responsibility anymore" while selling it means you need to have a working product.

You know what works better than petitions or asking on forums? Something like a Kickstarter campaign. Then you can have people pledging an amount or at least showing a modicum of support, and then you have a guaranteed "put your money where your mouth is".

Any number of bots can fill up petitions. Any number of anonymous users can register on forums. That's why that doesn't work. What they are going to want and need are paying customers.

And if your dream can't be a reality, stop pining for MOTU and support a project that's still alive, or otherwise twitching. No Ctrlr or JSynthLib profile for the Yamaha XYZ-900? Well, Yamaha's not going to put any work in it, and neither is any other owner of the XYZ-900, because they're all going to wait for a single person to do the job.

This pattern has happened over and over again - with Cubase's Device Panels and anything else like it. 90% of the people wait for something to happen, 9% will contribute but not start, and 1% will actually build.

That's the reality you have to deal with, because otherwise you're going to spend your time hoping and nothing's going to come of it.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

[pounce]

the point of mine that you missed is this -

I had lunch with Magic Dave from MOTU and he indicated that his apprehension about updating Unisyn was simply that there wouldn't be enough interest. It wouldn't be easy to update per se, but wouldn't be impossible either. He did a bit of the coding himself. He didn't think it would take an especially long time to update based on how it works.

As a piece of software, with a great amount of profiles already in existence, it would be nice to see it not die. One thing that would help is to determine if there is some interest so that I could open up this discussion with MOTU again. Therefore, just to put a feeler out and sort of do a poll I posted here. I liked using Unisyn and since it's still listed on the MOTU website, and not only is that company in business, they are just porting their flagship software to windows now. With that sort of revitalization of their software product, having a companion product for the synth editing also in place still makes sense.

If you can code panels and prefer something else that is fine. If you aren't interested in Unisyn so be it. You've voiced your opinion that I should look at something open source, although one of the two things you've mentioned is no longer active as well.

My goal in this thread is to find out who is interested in seeing this software get updated. Hoping other voices chime in here now.

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

You know what works better than petitions or asking on forums? Something like a Kickstarter campaign. Then you can have people pledging an amount or at least showing a modicum of support, and then you have a guaranteed "put your money where your mouth is".

$300

To have Unisyn for the PC updated...meaning under Windows 7 and profiles created for most of the major hardware synth releases since it was abandoned..which I think for the PC was around 2000..I would pay $300.

Keep the update simple meaning don't add any goofy new features. Just make it the best editor/librarian for hardware available. Keep everything midi. USB is probably too much investment. It already has the random mingle parameters feature to create new unexpected patches. Really, just update it for the new OS's and create new profiles.

I don't think it's as negative as Yoozer suggests, however he brings out potential issues anyone has to consider.

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[pounce]

I figured that MOTU not only still listed it as a current product, but that while they moved their flagship sequencer to v8 for windows and Mac that they might well consider updating Unisyn as well as a companion piece. It seems it would expand the features that a sequencer user might want.

I already own Unisyn, I'd just like to see it updated. I'd like it to work on my main machine and with my current synths too. I suspect it would be easy to also allow users to create profiles for it.

For some synths I have, I already have hundreds of patches on my computer. Using a universal editor librarian really let's you organize them, create performance banks, and such. The random patch generation is fun, and blending between two patches is really useful too. This sort of software is a great help to guys with hardware synths. I have a biggish synth rig that used to be twice as big. Over time I've accumulated a lot of patches for some of these guys. I've gotten used to the benefit of this sort of software, especially since DP is my main software.

This sort of software might not make sense until you have a lot of patches to organize, or a rack synth with a terrible interface, or an older synth you want to get new patches in for writers inspiration. But I have enough synths and patches that managing them is something I'd like this software for.

I thought this was exactly the right time to press MOTU about an update to Unisyn to work with their efforts in getting DP on both platforms.

[pounce]

I'm guessing that people not believing MOTU would even possibly update Unisyn is a big obstacle too. I would pony up the money and update my copy in a second if that software ever was made to run on the newer OS's.

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by pounce

For some synths I have, I already have hundreds of patches on my computer. Using a universal editor librarian really let's you organize them, create performance banks, and such. The random patch generation is fun, and blending between two patches is really useful too. This sort of software is a great help to guys with hardware synths. I have a biggish synth rig that used to be twice as big. Over time I've accumulated a lot of patches for some of these guys. I've gotten used to the benefit of this sort of software, especially since DP is my main software.

This sort of software might not make sense until you have a lot of patches to organize, or a rack synth with a terrible interface, or an older synth you want to get new patches in for writers inspiration. But I have enough synths and patches that managing them is something I'd like this software for.

I thought this was exactly the right time to press MOTU about an update to Unisyn to work with their efforts in getting DP on both platforms.

Same with me. Without a librarian/editor all those Emu Rack Synths of the 90s plus dozens of other rack synths aren't worth nearly as much. I love programming my Oberheim matrix 1000 in Unisyn instead of their own editor. Same goes with many others.

I have 4 midi timepiece AV's networked for a total of 32 midi ins and outs. Unisyn is a great help even though PC profiles only exist for it up to about 2000.

Anyway, if you know anyone at MOTU I think there are many more people like myself. But they have given up. When NI abandons Kore for soft synths, what does that tell a person about hardware? It's no use to contact MOTU as you will get someone who will recite a generic script about further development of Unisyn.

You might even talk to a person who didn't even know Unisyn was available for the PC.

I wish you the best of luck with your contact. And $300 is a drop in the bucket compared to the endless hours spent 20 years ago developing a large library.

I would also suggest you post this on other forums such as VSE etc. But keep in mind what Yoozer said.. Start a campaign showing support. On line petitions I think are lame and will get you nowhere. There is interest in this...we just have to see how much is genuine.

[cixelsyd]

Originally Posted by pounce

I'm guessing that people not believing MOTU would even possibly update Unisyn is a big obstacle too. I would pony up the money and update my copy in a second if that software ever was made to run on the newer OS's.

I had a similar issue with my Roland Varios in that the software that came with it VProducer and the 303 and Jupiter8 controller as well as the USB driver will not operate on non-Rosetta macs or Windows 7.

Basically what I did was this, I have a mac, but this will work on any version of Windows.

1. I downloaded software called VirtualBox which is virtual machine software. It enables you to run any OS in a virtual machine on your choice of platform. I invested others like parallels, vmware etc. but virtualbox was free so it was the first cab off the rank.

2. I created a Windows XP vm which required me to have a Windows XP install disk.

3. After getting the vm running I installed my legacy software which installed without issue, however when I plugged in the varios there were conflicts because my host mac was grabbing the USB device as it was plugged in and preventing my vm from "seeing" it.

4. To solve this I purchased a USB to ethernet bridge software which effectively enables me to share a USB port over my wireless network. (VM's are nodes on my wireless network). The software was called "USB to Ethernet Connector" by Eltima Software. Installation was easy and I was amazed how simple it was after spending days reading about USB conflicts in virtual environments.

Anyway the cruxt of this story for me is that if you want to run "legacy" software you have to do this on legacy computers and they are becoming more and more scarce. I have alot of "legacy" hardware so this VM solution was perfect for me.

Your mileage may vary. If you have any questions about setting this up for yourself feel free to PM me.

My mac is a 10.8.1 Mountain Lion mac book pro.
I hope this helps

[pounce]

considering just running the older Unisyn in this way, but an upated Unisyn would be a very welcome thing.

[LNerell]

For the record I've never owned Unisyn, but I would consider buying it if they decided to update it even though I do not have any present plans to update my system past 10.6.

[crufty]

technically unisyn allows for third party folk to build their own widgets, required an nda iirc

the architecture of unisyn was some kind of byte code processor, which is likely why it just doesn't work on 10.7 esp now that the motorola emu is kaput

i am not sure a midi librarian is needed so much...i mean, that would be nice. but i'm not personally going to swap patches in and out

but outboard patch editing integrated into a daw is sorely needed imo, it should not be a separate product, but part of the daw itself.

i was hoping logic X would improve the logic midi environment but so far who knows?

[Nicky T]

I would have to say yes pleeeease. I have found individual editor librarians from others (notably Rekon) to be wholly unreliable. Please, please, please MOTU get Unisyn back up and running with latest OSX - pulling my hair out waiting for it!