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Using Fm8 to create piano and strings
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Old 29th August 2012   #1
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Using Fm8 to create piano and strings

can anyone give me a hint to starting this? all my samples sound the same
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Old 29th August 2012   #2
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i'm in the same boat but im a few months in FM8 so heres what i know. first mess with the waves in each envelope. when i make piano'ish sounds i tend to use a sawtooth wave first. then just try messing with each oscillator's envelopes on the KEYSCALE or just all the all the envelopes in the Expert tab. Some shelving and peak eq's are good to direct where you want the sound to go.
BTW when you say piano and strings do you mean literal piano and strings or super saws and pad noises.
i'm not the smartest in Frequency Modulation but i know the basics
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Old 29th August 2012   #3
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I don´t know FM8 in depth (but I know what it should be capeable of) but starting with some basic DX7 patches might guide you in the right direction. I found some "datasheets" that might help you.

DX7 Rhodes: ESSENTIAL DX7 Patches

64 datasheets as a pdf from the ROM cartridge 1 (here you will find some piano & string patches): DX7 Data Sheet Patches

Brian Eno DX7 patches (4 of them from an old keyboard mag) incl a violin: http://www.spoogeworld.com/music/ins...7/scan0002.jpg

Cheers,
Sebastian
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Old 30th August 2012   #4
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gunna try it, thank you!!!!!
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Old 30th August 2012   #5
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so i have no idea how to read what they are saying. Could anyone give me a brief overview?
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Old 30th August 2012   #6
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Originally Posted by Babyslayer View Post
so i have no idea how to read what they are saying. Could anyone give me a brief overview?
Well, I don´t have a clue either how to translate them into FM8 parameters.

Just curious but do you know the basics about FM synthesis? If not it would be a good idea to learn the "basics". Though "basic FM" is not as easy as basic subtractive IMHO.

I would recommend you to read the original DX7 manual to get an idea what all those numbers mean. After that you should be able to translate most of them to your FM8. Try to find audio examples on the internet from the factory sounds so you have an idea what you could expect off if you do everything correct.

Fm is far away from being easy. Sry but I could not help you more than this.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Sebastian
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Old 30th August 2012   #7
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so i have no idea how to read what they are saying.
That's because those are intended for a DX7 which has a little label next to each knob. Choose the function with that particular name, set the value, rinse and repeat.

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Could anyone give me a brief overview?
Let's take the "Glide" patch in the Brian Eno article as an example:

When they say "algorithm 3", you need to rebuild the algorithm nr. 3 of the DX7. FM8 should have that in its list of preset algorithms. If not, here's what it looks like on the DX7 itself.

Code:
[3]  [6]>
 |    |
[2]  [5]
 |    |
[1]  [4]
 +----+
However, in FM8, there's a fully flexible setup, which makes the translation from this algorithm to FM8's version not really obvious. To know what it should look like, we can study the values at "27: Output" (27 matches the number of the function button on the DX7)

On the DX7, you could describe this algorithm in words as follows:

Operator 3 modulates operator 2, which in turn modulates operator 1. (this is the left pair)
Operator 6 (which has a feedback loop) modulates operator 5, which in turn modulates operator 4. (this is the right pair)
The end result (audio) of operators 1 and 4 is mixed and sent to the output.

Conceptually, the algorithm is a pair - 2 groups of 3 operators each. You also have algorithms that have 3 groups of 2 operators each. Each pair can be seen as a complex (or not so complex) oscillator; so in this case, the DX7 is in what you'd call "2-oscillator mode" on a regular subtractive synth.

The left pair is really simple; Op 3 and Op 2 aren't doing anything, so the result is a simple sinewave. It says "+4" and "-4" for the detune of Op3 and Op2, but they don't do anything. Parameters like this can be used as "protection" - if someone would have engineered this patch from scratch, they would both be set to zero since hey, they don't do anything. If the patch was copied outright, it would have this "junk DNA" in it.

The right pair is more complex. Op6 modulates Op5 with an output of 73. Op6 is tuned to 2.884 (mode is "F", which, if I recall correctly, means that the pitch does not change throughout the keyboard, though I'm not sure. I have to try this).

Op5 modulates Op4 with an output of 89, tuned to 9.00. Op4 is tuned to 2.00.

In FM8, you could use A, B and C for the left pair, and D, E and F for the right. But, since Op 2 and Op 3 aren't doing anything, you could simplify this.

Use Operator A as the sinewave at pitch 1.00, and send its output to the mixer at full volume.

Let Operator B assume the role of Op6. Send its output to Operator C, which assumes the role of Op5. Send the output of Operator C to Operator D, which assumes the role of Op4. Send the output of D to the mixer.

Then you have to translate the rate/level in the EG, and then you're almost there.

If all of the above is Greek to you, don't feel bad; the translation is an arduous process and the reward's probably not going to be that big. It makes more sense to buy a DX7 or TX7 and use a dedicated DX7 editor to recreate the patch there because all the values there will match perfectly - save it, and then have FM8 import the sysex.
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Old 30th August 2012   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
...

If all of the above is Greek to you, don't feel bad; the translation is an arduous process and the reward's probably not going to be that big. It makes more sense to buy a DX7 or TX7 and use a dedicated DX7 editor to recreate the patch there because all the values there will match perfectly - save it, and then have FM8 import the sysex.
Great job Yoozer.

I haven´t thought about the sysex method. This might be much easier.

But anyway, the translation process of any particular manual to the dedicated synth has thaught me so much about synthesis even if the sound I tried to recreate wasn´t the expected.

Like Thomas A. Edison once said:"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

Cheers,
Sebastian
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Old 30th August 2012   #9
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In fact, you don't even have to buy a DX7 or TX7, just the editor alone, if it can already produce sysex.
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Old 30th August 2012   #10
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For a beginner intro to FM8 start here

FM8 Beginner Tutorial - Introduction to NI FM8 | FM8 Tutorials

From there you can start building on this knowledge to create your own sounds.
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Old 11th September 2012   #11
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Thanks guys!!!!
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