Maschine alternative

[ksandvik]

Korg PadKontrol and your own custom mappings. Or just get the Mikro Maschine.

[kcearl]

Originally Posted by edvedder

I was super excited to purchase Maschine, to see what its all about. I spent three days going through tutorial videos (startup, sampler, masterclass), to really grasp all that it has to offer, but was quite disappointed that it doesn't quite offer what I was hoping for, or certainly not $500 worth. It's a pretty cool toy for someone just starting out in producing, but I've spent a solid two years learning Ableton, and finally have pretty good work flow on that, so I want to just continue using Ableton as my DAW.

The features I like on Maschine are:

- velocity sensitive touch pads for programming percs/bongos/congas etc etc
- sample library (can this be purchased separately?)
- the ability to auto detect and swap out samples
- the fx - pitch knob and note repeat button
- the ability to tag my own sample library, for organization


I like being able to program my kicks, snares and hats in Ableton and being able to have full control over those parts individually. It's more the live realistic programming of other percs - bongos/congas/random hats etc. that I'm trying to achieve, which I found the drum pads to be quite useful for in Maschine.

Can someone please recommend me an alternative to Maschine for what I need. I don't even know if I can return Maschine now, so I may be stuck with it anyways..

whats toyish about it just out of interest?

[edvedder]

Originally Posted by kcearl

whats toyish about it just out of interest?

I call all my hardware toys...

[kcearl]

Originally Posted by edvedder

I call all my hardware toys...

Ahhh


I thought it was something in particular

[FullCount]

Why couldn't you still use Ableton? Doesn't Machine run as a VST within a host?

I never used Machine though I would suspect that it would be like Kontakt and let you assign samples to individual outs which in turn are routed to individual channels in your host mixer.

[zerocrossing]

There is nothing that Maschine can do that can't be done with Live and a good MIDI controller. In fact, Live as a true DAW can do many things that Maschine can't.

I bought it anyway. Why? I love the hardware. Best I've felt though the Akai stuff is close. Second, it integrates very tightly to it's software, which you won't get from an Akai or the Korg Padkontrol. It also comes with a pretty nice sample library. So, at it's current price it seemed to be to be worth it just as a VST instrument and dedicated pad controller.

However, there are things that prevent me from using it very often. Not many, but enough deal breakers that it's clumsy. Most have to do with the way it chains patterns together. Maybe you'd call it a "song" mode. It's pretty poor. Shockingly poor actually. Working with Live directly is much smoother and easier. But for coming up with beats fast and fun, it's pretty excellent. I just keep it because I've used it to upgrade to Komplete and I think I'm locked in, and I do believe that the next software version could fix it's issues.

[kcearl]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Why couldn't you still use Ableton? Doesn't Machine run as a VST within a host?

I never used Machine though I would suspect that it would be like Kontakt and let you assign samples to individual outs which in turn are routed to individual channels in your host mixer.

Thats how i use it...Integrates easily and bypasses the single core problem and its awful song mode

As a controller its the centre of my work...

[MPRT]

If you like the immediacy and workflow of the maschine you can use it in ableton as vst. You could program beats on the machine and after you can copy the midi in ableton for sequencing. Also you can mix in ableton 16 sounds from maschine separately. Have it and don't use it so much because I'm more an analog guy but it's a powerful tool man and you can put down ideas very quickly!

[The Hamburglar]

It's incredibly easy to route the audio to different outs of Maschine when using it as a multi-output VST, at least in Logic (but I would assume Ableton as well.)

I think Maschine is a dream when it comes to slicing the samples of a loop and being able to independently control pitch and tempo. I use my asr-10 for practically everything these days but for this type of rhythmic slicing and altering.

[dubnspace]

I use mine in Cubase as a VST, mostly program patterns on Maschine, then drag and drop as Audio into my cubase arrangement. I solo the individual drum parts and drag them over on separate tracks so everything get its own track in cubase. You can also drag and drop as midi onto separate tracks and assign individual outputs like others have said. I can also route the output of Maschine to a bus in cubase and set the input on another channel and record the output from Maschine on the fly, this is good for doing that spontaneous/live type of programming and fills, etc.. using the note repeat function when doing this is great. You can also set a midi channel to both in and out from Maschine and record whatever you hit on the pads as Midi data directly in your DAW.
Basically, there's several ways to do what you want to do. Most people on this board who complain about Maschine usually complain that it can't do things that it actually can do, they just haven't taken the time to explore it.

[edvedder]

Originally Posted by MPRT

If you like the immediacy and workflow of the maschine you can use it in ableton as vst. You could program beats on the machine and after you can copy the midi in ableton for sequencing. Also you can mix in ableton 16 sounds from maschine separately. Have it and don't use it so much because I'm more an analog guy but it's a powerful tool man and you can put down ideas very quickly!

and this is the only reason I'm considering keeping it...

What I see myself doing with Maschine is first of all programming my kick, snares, and main hats in ableton, and then jamming along live with Maschine, to program in my bongos, congas and other various percs..

I also want to figure out how to set the rotary knobs to be able to automate certain parameters of my plugins within ableton.. for instance a cutoff on a synth.. Up to this point, I've just been drawing this automation in by hand..

[edvedder]

Originally Posted by dubnspace

I use mine in Cubase as a VST, mostly program patterns on Maschine, then drag and drop as Audio into my cubase arrangement. I solo the individual drum parts and drag them over on separate tracks so everything get its own track in cubase. You can also drag and drop as midi onto separate tracks and assign individual outputs like others have said. I can also route the output of Maschine to a bus in cubase and set the input on another channel and record the output from Maschine on the fly, this is good for doing that spontaneous/live type of programming and fills, etc.. using the note repeat function when doing this is great. You can also set a midi channel to both in and out from Maschine and record whatever you hit on the pads as Midi data directly in your DAW.
Basically, there's several ways to do what you want to do. Most people on this board who complain about Maschine usually complain that it can't do things that it actually can do, they just haven't taken the time to explore it.

I guess I need to know if I can get away with trading Maschine in for Mikro, to be able to still do all these fuctions you have listed as well as my own... It'll save me a couple hundred bucks

[dubnspace]

Originally Posted by edvedder

I guess I need to know if I can get away with trading Maschine in for Mikro, to be able to still do all these fuctions you have listed as well as my own... It'll save me a couple hundred bucks

Yeah, you should have all that functionality with Mikro..

[Alekto]

You know? NI Support is fricking awesome. My cat chewed the knob off my newly purchased Mikro. I emailed them and asked if I could grab a replacement somewhere. They recommended me this:

Cat Scratch : Watch your cat DJ whilst having a good scratch

And put a new knob in the post for me, postage free.

Just thought I'd share a funnay with you.

[lysander]

Originally Posted by Alekto

You know? NI Support is fricking awesome. My cat chewed the knob off my newly purchased Mikro. I emailed them and asked if I could grab a replacement somewhere. They recommended me this:

Cat Scratch : Watch your cat DJ whilst having a good scratch

And put a new knob in the post for me, postage free.

Just thought I'd share a funnay with you.

Nice, that's quite funny !

I've had my Maschine for a few weeks and really like it for ITB stuff BUT haven't yet figured out a good workflow for sequencing and recording external synths with it.
I was very disappointed to discover that you can't just record external audio as in a standard DAW, you can only "sample" it which is very clumsy and not well suited to recording yourself jamming.

I'd be very interested to know how people use it with external gear.
I know you can use it as a VST but to me that loses a lot of the appeal of the tight hardware integration, I'd like to do all the composition in standalone Maschine then export stems to a DAW for final mixing.

[Alekto]

I'm of the same opine, really. I'd love to use this standalone as my one-stop solution. Surely recording a longer part and just setting the sample length accordingly isn't that much of a biggy though? Hmm.. Further research is required.

[kcearl]

Originally Posted by lysander

Nice, that's quite funny !

I've had my Maschine for a few weeks and really like it for ITB stuff BUT haven't yet figured out a good workflow for sequencing and recording external synths with it.
I was very disappointed to discover that you can't just record external audio as in a standard DAW, you can only "sample" it which is very clumsy and not well suited to recording yourself jamming.

I'd be very interested to know how people use it with external gear.
I know you can use it as a VST but to me that loses a lot of the appeal of the tight hardware integration, I'd like to do all the composition in standalone Maschine then export stems to a DAW for final mixing.

I do a lot of the beats etc in Maschine basic song mode before using it as a VST....I generally start a tune off with a busy 16 bars or so to hear how things are working out

then I take it to live and switch between maschine and midi controller mode and it runs the entire project pretty much...id suggest megamaschines controller template on the NI site

in Live the hardware is just as tight...and the controller modes brilliant...even when I switch to Studio One I just change the template and carry on using maschine


its not perfect by a long shot, but I use it far more often than other pieces of kit that cost a lot more

[lysander]

Originally Posted by Alekto

I'm of the same opine, really. I'd love to use this standalone as my one-stop solution. Surely recording a longer part and just setting the sample length accordingly isn't that much of a biggy though? Hmm.. Further research is required.

Yes but I don't think you can sample several external audio parts at the same time or can you ? I have two external synths, and have at least 1 more in the pipeline

[Alekto]

Honestly, I haven't dug that deep into it yet so I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's no at this current time?

[lysander]

Originally Posted by kcearl

I do a lot of the beats etc in Maschine basic song mode before using it as a VST....I generally start a tune off with a busy 16 bars or so to hear how things are working out

then I take it to live and switch between maschine and midi controller mode and it runs the entire project pretty much...id suggest megamaschines controller template on the NI site

in Live the hardware is just as tight...and the controller modes brilliant...even when I switch to Studio One I just change the template and carry on using maschine


its not perfect by a long shot, but I use it far more often than other pieces of kit that cost a lot more

Thanks, I don't have live but I have studio one. What template do you use for that ?

[kcearl]

Originally Posted by lysander

Thanks, I don't have live but I have studio one. What template do you use for that ?

I use one from NIs site...but check with Presonus they have one in the exchange sectionof their forum that integrates even better i think

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by zerocrossing

There is nothing that Maschine can do that can't be done with Live and a good MIDI controller. In fact, Live as a true DAW can do many things that Maschine can't.

I bought it anyway. Why? I love the hardware. Best I've felt though the Akai stuff is close. Second, it integrates very tightly to it's software, which you won't get from an Akai or the Korg Padkontrol. It also comes with a pretty nice sample library. So, at it's current price it seemed to be to be worth it just as a VST instrument and dedicated pad controller.

However, there are things that prevent me from using it very often. Not many, but enough deal breakers that it's clumsy. Most have to do with the way it chains patterns together. Maybe you'd call it a "song" mode. It's pretty poor. Shockingly poor actually. Working with Live directly is much smoother and easier. But for coming up with beats fast and fun, it's pretty excellent. I just keep it because I've used it to upgrade to Komplete and I think I'm locked in, and I do believe that the next software version could fix it's issues.

I think a lot of us here feel and work the same as you.

NI hit a home run when they introduced this to a very wide market vs. anything else they have released in recent years.

The sacrificial lamb was Kore which appealed to a much narrower market. I'm still unhappy and won't forgive NI.

So today you have casual users simply making beatz without much else. And then on the other side you have experienced users integrating it with their DAW. I have never used song mode and never will.

If NI isn't careful they will make this "toy" too complicated/bloated for the original users who loved its simplicity. But then you have users asking for more Kore-like features...especially those who understood the power of Kore.

To the OP: What do you feel makes you disappointed with Maschine? Or is it the same reasons as what Zerocrossing has mentioned?

[cryophonik]

Originally Posted by edvedder

...or certainly not $500 worth.

One thing to consider is that NI recently dropped the price of Maschine pretty drastically and the street price is now $399 or less, so you'll probably take a pretty big loss if you were to sell it now. I'd suggest just spending some more time with Maschine before making a decision. I've had mine for years and have found many ways to integrate it into my workflow. Like some of the others here, I don't care for its song mode, but I record the patterns in Maschine and drag the MIDI patterns into my DAW to arrange them into the song.

If you're still planning on switching, you should check out Arturia's The Spark - I believe that it meets most, if not all, of your criteria.

[awol9000]

Originally Posted by Alekto

You know? NI Support is fricking awesome. My cat chewed the knob off my newly purchased Mikro. I emailed them and asked if I could grab a replacement somewhere. They recommended me this:

Cat Scratch : Watch your cat DJ whilst having a good scratch

And put a new knob in the post for me, postage free.

Just thought I'd share a funnay with you.

That made my morning.

[edvedder]

Originally Posted by cryophonik

One thing to consider is that NI recently dropped the price of Maschine pretty drastically and the street price is now $399 or less, so you'll probably take a pretty big loss if you were to sell it now. I'd suggest just spending some more time with Maschine before making a decision. I've had mine for years and have found many ways to integrate it into my workflow. Like some of the others here, I don't care for its song mode, but I record the patterns in Maschine and drag the MIDI patterns into my DAW to arrange them into the song.

If you're still planning on switching, you should check out Arturia's The Spark - I believe that it meets most, if not all, of your criteria.

I've finally had a chance to start a track with it today, and I'm starting to really enjoy this thing, now that I'm working with sounds I like..I laid down a pretty sick groove, that I've never been able to do with my midi keyboard.. I think I'm going to keep this badboy afterall

The only issue I'm having now is when I export my loops from Maschine into Ableton, the timing is different than how it sounds in Maschine. I've tried turning warp mode off, but that didn't seem to help.. Does anybody have this problem?

[raffael77]

Originally Posted by edvedder

I was super excited to purchase Maschine, to see what its all about. I spent three days going through tutorial videos (startup, sampler, masterclass), to really grasp all that it has to offer, but was quite disappointed that it doesn't quite offer what I was hoping for, or certainly not $500 worth. It's a pretty cool toy for someone just starting out in producing, but I've spent a solid two years learning Ableton, and finally have pretty good work flow on that, so I want to just continue using Ableton as my DAW.

The features I like on Maschine are:

- velocity sensitive touch pads for programming percs/bongos/congas etc etc
- sample library (can this be purchased separately?)
- the ability to auto detect and swap out samples
- the fx - pitch knob and note repeat button
- the ability to tag my own sample library, for organization


I like being able to program my kicks, snares and hats in Ableton and being able to have full control over those parts individually. It's more the live realistic programming of other percs - bongos/congas/random hats etc. that I'm trying to achieve, which I found the drum pads to be quite useful for in Maschine.

Can someone please recommend me an alternative to Maschine for what I need. I don't even know if I can return Maschine now, so I may be stuck with it anyways..

Their is one that beats machine big time. It works with Ableton LIve and it's made for ableton as well but you can use it with other daws to.

It's the MPD series by akai. It has the same MPC looks and pads with same quality but with Ableton you can use it as a real MPC. The biggest one is the MPD 32.

[kcearl]

MPD has terrible pads, but this can be remedied with a cheap kit if you dont mind voiding the warranty

Ive had the mikro as well as maschine and it has better pads...I hope they drop these in the next controller, theyre the best Ive felt/used on any controller

[MasterShake239]

Originally Posted by The Hamburglar

It's incredibly easy to route the audio to different outs of Maschine when using it as a multi-output VST, at least in Logic (but I would assume Ableton as well.)

I think Maschine is a dream when it comes to slicing the samples of a loop and being able to independently control pitch and tempo. I use my asr-10 for practically everything these days but for this type of rhythmic slicing and altering.

I use it for logic to but just routing every one of the sixteen pads to their individual aux is a pain in my arse.
Does anyone else use maschine with logic? if so is their easy ways of routing this thing without using all of my CPU?

[_seph]

agreed. The MPD would be my last choice for pads. I've been happy with Korg's padKontrol, but were I to buy a controller today I'd opt for the new Keith McMillen QuNeo.

as for Maschine.. we're approaching the end of NI's sale and I've been considering it, however even at the low prices I don't feel it's worth it. Perhaps were I using another DAW, but with the Ableton Suite + M4L everything is so tightly integrated and seamless the only thing I really see Maschine bringing is some more sounds (not too excited) and another workflow to deal with (definitely a minus).

for me, I decided I'd much rather spend the money on a Wavedrum for some varied percussion and instead of a laptop upgrade to handle more software, a Tempest would be very nice.