Practicality of the Doepfer Dark Energy since discontinuation?

[flat earth]

I didn't know it had been discontinued already? I know the MK2 version should appear at some point.

You say you are after a dirty sound, perhaps building a mini modular based around the A-111 (same thing) might be worth while. None of the smaller modules I've used approach the dirty sound of the DE. ie, the Vermona Mono Lancet sounds completely different, but is very nice and can get close to the old Roland SH type of sound.

For that sort of money, you could take a used Mono Lancet and rough it up by adding a Korg Monotribe + midi kit for added grit.

[FlameNeoG]

Thanks for the reply! Looking into the mono lancet, it looks like it can do some cool stuff. I guess by dirty sounds, I mean something that can be used in ambient experimental, drone, or hard industrial music. Something a bit atypical, which is why I liked the Dark Energy. It could do conventional synth sounds and some weird stuff too. I am thinking about building a mini modular eventually, but I think I'd like maybe some tabletop synths first, just to get a feel for analog! I'm taking your suggestion into consideration though, thanks a lot!

[bloodsample]

Check out this thread for a nice list of small desktop synths. Maybe you'll find something in there you like.

Also don't overlook guitar pedals. They're a nice inexpensive way to add "dirt" or "weirdness" to any basic synth. A nice fuzz and delay pedal can add a lot to a simple desktop mono synth.

[Eric J]

I'm kind of debating this myself. I've been having so much fun with the Minitaur that I've been considering maybe picking up another mono synth in the same vein (all knobby, no memory).

Dark Energy - Looks nice, but its only one VCO, and its (obviously) discontinued. PWM helps tho. Dark Energy II might not be the same synth (see below).
Vermona Lancet - 2 VCO, but have heard it described as "plain" or "vanilla". Not many demos online.
Oberheim SEM - a tad pricier, but supposedly sounds great. No MIDI LFO sync.
SE Boomstar - Fits the bill perfectly on paper. Would be nice to hear a demo or (gasp) see a ship date that's confirmed.

There are more, but those are the ones that had caught my eye.

I'm waiting for now.

Originally Posted by flat earth

I didn't know it had been discontinued already? I know the MK2 version should appear at some point.

Yep, apparently one of the chips that was used in it is no longer available. They decided to "redesign it" with a new chip. The upcoming Dark Energy II has a different chip, with a new multimode filter and a couple of other enhancements. The website SAYS shipping Sep/Oct 2012, but you know how that goes. But they DO say that since the chip is different, it is going to sound different, so make of that what you will.

This site has a video of them talking about the new unit and what has changed and why:

MESSE12: Doepfer Dark Energy II, First outing for the new revision - and why (Video) -Sonicstate.com

[jimtheswede]

You might consider the MiniBrute as a starting point as a controller. I'm using mine CV'd to the Dark Energy and works great! The MB is quite an awesome synth - especially for the price. There is a wait time however......

[masaski]

Get a DEv1 and then a DEv2, hook them up together, join the internal midi up (dieter says that they're using the same boards) then you've got a 2 VCO machine with 2 different filters etc...

Apparently they should be out late Sept early Oct...

Itching.

[jizmatron]

Worth considering the MFB Kraftzwerg? I think it's still in production?
The build quality & perhaps the filter aren't as sweet as the Dark Energy, but it gives you a lot more modulation options and it definitely hits the nail on the head for "dirty.. ambient experimental, drone, or hard industrial music"

[Aiyn Zahav]

I'd look seriously into the Vermona Lancet. It's true that demos are few but listen closely to them. I thought it sounded pretty vanilla until the filters got involved, then I was quite impressed.

I'll still be on the fence unless I can actually try one though and that's probably not going to happen.

For me the most serious contenders are the Vermona or on of the Studio Electronics synths. I am keen the the moog 24dB filter type. The phatty could work but seems a little limited. No presets is also appealing to me.

Both the Vermona and the current SE offers do seem a little polished sounding, the Leipzig sounds pretty beefy. This is all judging from audio demos though.

I've used a phatty and a DSI in person though, which is why I would consider a phatty but not too interested in the DSI (not my taste)

PS for a synth with only one OSC I rarely see people post anything negative about it. Apart from that they want another one. It does seem to have a pretty deep sounding OSC and that is pretty important. It just seems like people who have it take to it quite well.

Raw sound must not only be good, it must appeal to you on some personal level. The design and styling needs to suit my taste and the build quality needs to feel solid. After that the features must not be too limited.

Nice demo of the DE here too Testing my new Doepfer Dark Energy - YouTube

[BM0]

Didn't the dark energy use an old CEM filter that has been out of production for years? Maybe the Cem3372?

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by BM0

Didn't the dark energy use an old CEM filter that has been out of production for years? Maybe the Cem3372?

CEM3394 I believe. Which is nigh on an entire synth on a single chip, not only the filter. Doepfer relied on NOS (new old stock) to make the synth, which is pretty much gone now. I expect the DE II to sound noticeably different, as no single currently available chip could replace that. So the MKII will likely have a bunch of extra and entirely different parts that go into making it.

The original is a cool little synth. Im curious how the new one will compare

[FlameNeoG]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. After reading through.. I'm actually a little bit more indecisive than I was in the first place! Which is not a bad thing, I'm now exploring more options that some of you brought up. The MFB Kraftzwerg looks great. I'm really curious to see what the DE II will be like without the CEM3394.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards starting out with a mini doepfer a100 rack, if it proves to be practical. On that note, can anyone suggest a basic set of modules that won't A. Completely break my bank right off the bat (ballpark 500-900, at the moment) B. Leave me wishing I had bought something extra (IE, not enough knobby goodness, and C. Leave me decent room to expand.

Apologies for asking so much. I'm a VST user, That's what the majority of my music ios made with, and I've been experimenting with modular VSTs since I was 13 (I'm 20 now.) And been lurking around on forums gathering info for years. I just now decided to actually ask for some help, so I appreciate everyone's suggestions.

[rec.Koner]

>>Dark Energy - Looks nice, but its only one VCO<<

but it's pretty nice for "1 vco-synth" - the sound has up to three layers at once sometimes (vco + filter's resonance + lfo's audio out)

[the donal]

You'd be surprised how much balls that single VCO has got though!

Also, with x-mod on the filter and lfo's that go into audio range, it's also got a fair amount of sonic potential.

I'm looking forward to hearing what the DE-II sounds like when it's finished (the NAMM report didn't give me enough).

Now- maybe we should rally together to convince Dieter to build a Dark Time II with 2 or even 3 rows of 16 and full controls on each (range, clock divisions, direction, and all the switching). Yes I could buy 3 Dark Time units, but I'm running out of sockets and space in the flat!! Aside from memories (I'd go with a Cirklon/MAQ 16/3 for that), it'd be a fantastic live step sequencer.

[Psykisk]

Just so you know, Analogue Haven appears to still have them in stock: a n a l o g u e h a v e n I'd highly suggest the glide kit if you get it.

[Aiyn Zahav]

Now this is quite interesting

Sonic LAB Moog Minitaur Bass Synth Review - YouTube

The Minitaur has a sort of phase reset. Its called note sync. I don't know if I've seen that on any other analog synths.

Now that really does change things for me.

Also you can actually save presets on it.

I think I am sold. I just wish it had noise, but I guess I can add that to the audio in. So all is not lost.

I don't know if I am sold on the sound, but that I wouldn't know about until I have it to use.

Like he says, the resonance doesn't quite sound like its "in" the filter. Unlike the phatty for example which has a really creamy filter sound that sort of "eats up" the oscillator rather than just adding resonance to it.

hmm Maybe I should just get a phatty. But does it have note sync?

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav

Now this is quite interesting

Sonic LAB Moog Minitaur Bass Synth Review - YouTube

The Minitaur has a sort of phase reset. Its called note sync. I don't know if I've seen that on any other analog synths.

Now that really does change things for me.

I just bought one a couple of weeks ago. Love it. In fact, I've been using it so much that its what spurred me on to looking into other "one-knob-per-function" mono synths.

Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav

Also you can actually save presets on it.

IF you can get the software to work. I can't get it to communicate with the unit. Its still very much 1.0 software, so keep that in mind. Fortunately, you can enable all the "hidden" stuff with MIDI CC's, so the only thing you lose is the preset saving (which I didn't care about anyway).

Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav

I think I am sold. I just wish it had noise, but I guess I can add that to the audio in. So all is not lost.

You can add that with one of the moogerfoogers.

Originally Posted by Aiyn Zahav

hmm Maybe I should just get a phatty. But does it have note sync?

No.

FWIW, I had the Phatty for a few years and sold it. I like this better, both in terms of sound and interface. But that's just me, YMMV.

[Aiyn Zahav]

Originally Posted by Eric J

I just bought one a couple of weeks ago. Love it. In fact, I've been using it so much that its what spurred me on to looking into other "one-knob-per-function" mono synths.



IF you can get the software to work. I can't get it to communicate with the unit. Its still very much 1.0 software, so keep that in mind. Fortunately, you can enable all the "hidden" stuff with MIDI CC's, so the only thing you lose is the preset saving (which I didn't care about anyway).



You can add that with one of the moogerfoogers.



No.

FWIW, I had the Phatty for a few years and sold it. I like this better, both in terms of sound and interface. But that's just me, YMMV.

Thanks a lot, you answered all my questions. I am much more seriously considering this now.. Still not sure because it only has 2 waveforms and again I don't think it sounds as appealing to me as the phatty.

But really, are there any other analog synths at all that have phase reset? Maybe the Pulse?

[vstace]

Taken from Synthopia...

These are the most important differences between Dark Energy I and II:

12dB multimode filter with lowpass, notch, highpass and bandpass (instead of 24dB lowpass of Dark Energy I)
The previous LM control of the filter becomes the filter type control (continuous crossfade lowpass – notch highpass – bandpass)
The LM function of the filter is no longer available
The waveform switch is used to select between saw and clipped/distorted saw (in the center position the saw is off)
The basic waveform of the VCO is saw (not triangle like the Dark Energy I).
because of the pure analog circuit and the temperature control it takes about 30 minutes until the VCO is in tune.
The VCA has a exponential scale (not the combined linear/exponential scale of Dark Energy I)

[the donal]

Originally Posted by vstace

Taken from Synthopia...

These are the most important differences between Dark Energy I and II:

12dB multimode filter with lowpass, notch, highpass and bandpass (instead of 24dB lowpass of Dark Energy I)
The previous LM control of the filter becomes the filter type control (continuous crossfade lowpass – notch highpass – bandpass)
The LM function of the filter is no longer available
The waveform switch is used to select between saw and clipped/distorted saw (in the center position the saw is off)
The basic waveform of the VCO is saw (not triangle like the Dark Energy I).
because of the pure analog circuit and the temperature control it takes about 30 minutes until the VCO is in tune.
The VCA has a exponential scale (not the combined linear/exponential scale of Dark Energy I)

I think the multimode filter will add a lot of sonic potential to the DE II and the different features will definitely make it a compliment to the predecessor.

[vstace]

Originally Posted by the donal

I think the multimode filter will add a lot of sonic potential to the DE II and the different features will definitely make it a compliment to the predecessor.

Agreed. I have recently gotten over my baseless dislike of 12/db filters, and this multimode will certainly expand the sonic territory.

[phreak260]

Originally Posted by vstace

Taken from Synthopia...

These are the most important differences between Dark Energy I and II:

12dB multimode filter with lowpass, notch, highpass and bandpass (instead of 24dB lowpass of Dark Energy I)
The previous LM control of the filter becomes the filter type control (continuous crossfade lowpass – notch highpass – bandpass)
The LM function of the filter is no longer available
The waveform switch is used to select between saw and clipped/distorted saw (in the center position the saw is off)
The basic waveform of the VCO is saw (not triangle like the Dark Energy I).
because of the pure analog circuit and the temperature control it takes about 30 minutes until the VCO is in tune.
The VCA has a exponential scale (not the combined linear/exponential scale of Dark Energy I)

just a quick clarification... the basic waveform of the DE1 is a square, you can add either a saw or triangle.

i got mine from sean at analog haven and he explained the shift to the DE 2 a little differently... it's not that the CEM3394 is no longer available, but rather that the cost is going up. Doepfer decided to try and keep costs down and that is why they have abandoned the CEM chip in the new design. and yes he has a few left still.

as for the sound, i can say it is incredibly ballsy. thick and rich and raw and dripping with life ballsy.

i am interested to hear the sound of the DE 2... i think having each is a great idea for a slut.

[rec.Koner]

and Dark Energy knows how to sound WEIRD also)

[foodeater]

Originally Posted by FlameNeoG

At the moment, I'm leaning towards starting out with a mini doepfer a100 rack, if it proves to be practical. On that note, can anyone suggest a basic set of modules that won't A. Completely break my bank right off the bat (ballpark 500-900, at the moment) B. Leave me wishing I had bought something extra (IE, not enough knobby goodness, and C. Leave me decent room to expand.

A-111-5 Mini Synth
A-190-3
tip top audio happy ending kit

There's a close approximation of a dark energy/starter system. Don't really need anything else. (except patch cables!) I have a softspot for the a-112 (lo-fi) wavetable sampler, myself, but just try things that catch your eye.

Used doepfer market is the most cost effective and I feel best way to learn. You might end up not liking the euro rack format, but you'll have some good solid ground to try out others.

I'd sugest going to muffwiggler.com reading and asking questions for a few months while you play with it before buying anything else.

I think the mistake most people make is they get a bunch of "sexy" complicated modules that make whizz bang sound to start with when the "boring" utility modules will serve you better long term once you understand them. VCAs, switches, dividers, multiples, logic, for me, this is the stuff that's really powerful and way more fun to do with hardware and cables and knobs.

[FlameNeoG]

Originally Posted by foodeater

A-111-5 Mini Synth
A-190-3
tip top audio happy ending kit

There's a close approximation of a dark energy/starter system. Don't really need anything else. (except patch cables!) I have a softspot for the a-112 (lo-fi) wavetable sampler, myself, but just try things that catch your eye.

Used doepfer market is the most cost effective and I feel best way to learn. You might end up not liking the euro rack format, but you'll have some good solid ground to try out others.

I'd sugest going to muffwiggler.com reading and asking questions for a few months while you play with it before buying anything else.

I think the mistake most people make is they get a bunch of "sexy" complicated modules that make whizz bang sound to start with when the "boring" utility modules will serve you better long term once you understand them. VCAs, switches, dividers, multiples, logic, for me, this is the stuff that's really powerful and way more fun to do with hardware and cables and knobs.

Well, I think you just built me a modular starter kit. That's right in my price range and looks fantastic! Thanks so much. It'll be a couple months of monitoring my finances to make sure I'll be able to take the plunge, but i think that's what I'll go for.

Question. Do the happy ending kits mount on a standard 19" if I want them to? And is it practical to buy one or two more when I want to expand, or would it be better to actually invest in a full powered rack at that point? Unless I'm misunderstanding the power supply

[spain75]

Hi

I just recently bought the doepfer maq16/3 sequencer and im looking for an analog synth or modular system. Should i go for a monophonic synth or should i take advantage of the 3 seperate sequences on the maq and build a a100 with 3 synthvoices OR just get a polyphonic synth? Any recomendations? Im leaning a little bit towards the a100 system, but im not sure what modules i need to get three seperate synthvoices as im quite newbie when it comes to synthmodules. Main intention is to control the basic parameters(frequency,cutoff,decat,release,sustain etc) on three seperate voices.

[vstace]

Originally Posted by spain75

Hi

I just recently bought the doepfer maq16/3 sequencer and im looking for an analog synth or modular system. Should i go for a monophonic synth or should i take advantage of the 3 seperate sequences on the maq and build a a100 with 3 synthvoices OR just get a polyphonic synth? Any recomendations? Im leaning a little bit towards the a100 system, but im not sure what modules i need to get three seperate synthvoices as im quite newbie when it comes to synthmodules. Main intention is to control the basic parameters(frequency,cutoff,decat,release,sustain etc) on three seperate voices.

The A-100 is a solid choice but I'd personally go for a custom Eurorack system with a DIY rack case, Tiptop power rails, and modules from Make Noise, The Harvestman..pick your favs, etc.

That way you get a non-vanilla looking system with really unique modules. You can still use Doepfer for your bread and butter modules.

Your sequencer won't do a polysynth justice. Stick with modular or get a couple mono synths with CV.

[spain75]

Right now am looking at the a 100 basic system, but as far as my knowledge goes this is a system with one "voice" right? So i mean, if i run three seperate sequences on the maq i would still need 3 voices if i wanna control each of them seperately? May be a stupid newbie question, but anyways i am kind of a newbie. The reason i am wondering is cause when i saw the a100 system i thought, hmm.. thats a lot of modules, and when i find out its monophonic would i then need to triple the amount of modules to get what i want so the modularsystem "fits" in with the maq and it features. I know i can program the maq to be 48 steps instead of 3 seperate 16steps, but i want to be able to run polyrythmic patterns and have three seperate audio signals with control over the basic synth functions on each seperate 16 patterns. Do i actually need to buy three a100 system to realize this or is it a better and more cost effective way?

Ill check out what Eurorack has to offer, thanks for replying by the way.

[vstace]

I believe the A-100 basic has 2 VCO's but you will need the extra sequencer channel for the filters or VCA or ring mod, etc. So much stuff to modulate. Have fun.

[BM0]

Originally Posted by spain75

Do i actually need to buy three a100 system to realize this or is it a better and more cost effective way?

Pretty much. You will need 3x modules for 3 voices. Modulars aren't cheap for multiple voices. There are companies that make voice modules, which include oscillator, filter, amp and envlope all in one module, but they aren't really much cheaper than having the individual modules.