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Analog Modeler pros: Pianos from the ground up?
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Old 13th August 2012   #1
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Analog Modeler pros: Pianos from the ground up?

Hello fellow slutz. I have missed you.

I am in DIRE need of a decent piano sound. All we have for the stage is my little analog modeling synth. Now before we start another hate party on the Akai Miniak (which i really like), we can just talk about this from the angle of any 2-to-4 occillator digital modeling synth, in general theory.

That is, i have heard amazing patches for the miniak and other custom programmed va modelers, just havent really found a good tutorial on making a great piano patch from raw waves, from the ground up.

If anyone has done so with the miniak, please share your anecdotes.
But if you've some tutorial link or just know how to do this with a couple raw waves, lfos and filters from 2 or 4 occilators, than i would gladly jump on that as well!

Thanks for your time, hope you are well, cheers!
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Old 13th August 2012   #2
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the famous SOS "Synthesizer secrets" series

focused for THREE MONTHS on generating a piano sound on a analogue synth.

Excellent.

Exactly what you are looking for.

Also: the prophet t8 manual included among its patches a "piano" emulation. that could be a nice starting point.

careful though: SOS concluded, after detailed analysis, that a piano emulation was out of question even on a huge modular.

In the process it gave plenty of details and ideas though.
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Old 13th August 2012   #3
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on a synth with just pulse wave, use a PW ratio of 1/8 ( 31 on a 0-127 range )
corresponding to the typical missing harmonic of the hammer striking point

on a synth with FM, use a frequency ratio of 1:3 ( 19.02 semitones )
if you have a second carrier, use an additional ratio of 2:1 (1:0.5)

on Blofeld and Q, use Alt wave 1, I think the piano starts ( or stops) at table index 48,
not sure, cant test right now

in general, use a 4 pole or 3 pole LP cutoff at ~ 1.4 k, corresponding to an idealized
piano soundboard impulse response spectral envelope, use a little but not too much resonance
( this depends on the implementaion / scaling of the resonance so I cant give a value here )
you can use *inverse* velo scaling of the resonsce )

if you have two reverbs, use the shortest you can have together with a medium or large room / chamber / small hall
alternativly use a very short delay or low tuned comb filter or static flanger for the first

use some chorus, and panning with keyboardscaling per voice

use dual unison, detuned with a beating of 0.2 hertz, not needed with wavetables, just detune two osc's

velocity and envelope long on filter cutoff, slight on fm index, velo slight on detuning
minimal short 3rd env to pitch one of the osc's slightly up on attack fro 1 - 3 wave cycles
keyboard scaling on fm index (important), slightly on cutoff


if you have yet an other fm carrier pair, tune one osc on the 11th to 15th harmonic,
the other on base pitch or 1-2 octaves higher, slightly detuned, fm index and volume scaled by velocity
or use an additional band pass if available, around that range, level by velocity

if you still have an additional comb filter, you can filter out the 7th or 8th harmonic,
( corresponding to a pitch difference of 33 semitone 68 cents, or 36 semitones respectively )
scaled by velocity ( feedforward negative comb, no feedback )

keyboard scaling on envelope decay times, shorter for high notes of course

amp envelope is the last thing you apply, start with a brick/organ envelope for the amp

if you have a two stage decay, you can use that on the amp ( not on the filter ) and
also on fm index, not on wavetable index
( happens on real pianos too, but also happens with the detune ratio a gave above )

other than said above you can get a useful piano sound with the fm or the alt wave above,
not so much with the pulse wave though
and piano on a modular doesnt make so much sense since even large modulars tend to be monophonic
so possibly that was a joke, wasted

the FM creates pretty much the spectral envelope of a piano, and the typical FM ripples
in the spectrum resemble somewhat those in the pianos soundboard too

I am too lazy now but maybe Ill give sound examples tomorrow or so, have everything disconnected
and in a mess right now
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Old 14th August 2012   #4
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wow, thats actually a pretty good patch there
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Old 14th August 2012   #5
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Awesome

This is great folks, thanks so much! Will be digging into these now...lets keep it going thanks again
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Old 14th August 2012   #6
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As Ozy mentioned you should start here:

SoS Synthesizing Pianos Part 1

SoS Synthesizing Pianos Part 2

SoS Synthesizing Pianos Part 3

SoS Synthesizing Pianos Part 4
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Old 14th August 2012   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
piano on a modular doesnt make so much sense so possibly that was a joke, wasted
it was not a joke.

the patch you proposed possibly resembles a flat emulation of the 1972"honky tonk" preset on a Elka "electronic piano"

Between that, and "modeling an acoustic piano", four decades and a handful of universes intercur


Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
I am too lazy
exactamundo


thanks for providing the links. One excuse less for intellectual lazyness
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Old 14th August 2012   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
and piano on a modular doesnt make so much sense since even large modulars tend to be monophonic
But what if you'd use an entire modular setup to nail the sound of a middle C on a Steinway? (and just that, out of that range suspension of disbelief starts to fail).

There's a CP80 patch for the DX7II that I still have to find back, but that was pretty good for 1986 non-sampling technology level. FM works better for this, IMHO.
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