13th August 2012
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#1 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter  | SE ATC1 comparison for moog like bass sound
Hey
I've just been through a spell of GAS. Thinking that there is one thing left that -might- be a weak link in my current setup. I was thinking about picking up a mono bass synth of some sorts. Love the moog sound in general. An SE ATC-1 comes to mind.
I love that it's a rack synth, and I do have two spaces available. I like that it stores patches and has midi. Those all make this very much more convenient for me. A smaller table top type synth would also do, but I don't need more keys.
At this point, after a number of expensive purchases in a row, I can't spend for some of the big obvious choices - and as someone who owns older synths, the idea of a really well made modern analog that doesn't need the maintenance of the vintage stuff counts for something.
The SE stuff has always seemed stellar, great sound and build quality. Odd that I hadn't gotten any of it yet. I've read a lot about their gear and have listened to many online demo video and audio tracks. It's enough to confirm that I like the SE kit for sure. It feels like the right direction to go in.
But the real details and differences are sometimes only really apparent to those who have put some real hands on time with them. Not just a quick listen at a music store or whatever. The primary goal is a bass synth, and a moog sound is something I like. Soft reviews on things like the slim phatty (still a possible contender) made me think I'd feel like I wasn't really getting the moog I wanted from it and that I'd get bored of it as a one trick pony sooner than I should. My other synth gear is stuff I love, so I am unwilling to half ass it here and get something to get by with. No, if I'm gonna get something I do want it to be good. The SE ATC1 looks like a real winner. All the build quality, sound quality, and convenience of newer gear that I would want. I don't know enough about the real world differences between it and it's cousins, like the SE1x, or even the ATCX. Probably not going to spend the dosh for the omega right now. (if I had that much left to spend I'd get a voyetra 8 anyway).
Any suggestions in the SE line, or otherwise, for a synth that I want to excel at bass, but versatile and analogish is still very welcome. If it does other tricks that is cool too. Should I not dismiss the slim phatty? It seems like that isn't really the moog for me. Not sure if I should wait for the Boomstar stuff, or get a nice deal on the slightly older SE kit. Any input from SE users most welcome. Really looking at the SE products pretty closely right now.
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13th August 2012
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#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2008 Location: The Lagrange point between Jupiter and Io
Posts: 1,653
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce  I was thinking about picking up a mono bass synth of some sorts. Love the moog sound in general. | Why not a Moog Minitaur? It fits these requirements and it's cheap. MINITAUR | Moog Music Inc | |
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13th August 2012
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
Yeah, very good suggestion. Giving that some thought, much more than the SP.
Wondered if the versatility in the ATC1 coupled with its good bass abilities might make it better all around instead of being just one thing only. In the end I'll probably pick the one whose bass sounds I like the best and feel inspired to use.
Not sure if the Minotaur sounds better than the atc1 since they are both similarly priced enough for me. I'll investigate that, but still feel like the overall feature set of the SE with good bass and patch memory might still win out.
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13th August 2012
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2009 Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,291
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If you're not in a hurry, and if the lack of patch storage isn't a deal-breaker, then I think you should at least wait to hear the Boomstar 5089 demos. Seems like an amazing specs:price ratio. You might end up kicking yourself if you don't give those hardware envelopes a chance!
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13th August 2012
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2008 Location: The Lagrange point between Jupiter and Io
Posts: 1,653
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa If you're not in a hurry, and if the lack of patch storage isn't a deal-breaker, then I think you should at least wait to hear the Boomstar 5089 demos. Seems like an amazing specs:price ratio. You might end up kicking yourself if you don't give those hardware envelopes a chance! | I'm so waiting for those myself, but who has any idea when they'll actually be available. Seems the anticipated release dates keep getting mover further and further back. We haven't even heard a demo yet.
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13th August 2012
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#6 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
yeah, that's kind of a big thing looming over this decision.
unless a really good deal on a used SE comes up. At least I want to know, based on whats actually available now, what is the best choice for my tastes.
Still trying to determine if the ATC1 or ATC1x or SE1x or some other one would be the best fit of the SE products.
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13th August 2012
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 539
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if you prefer the SE stuff go with that, but if you seek the moog sound, you may regret not just getting an actual moog. The SE stuff sounds great in its own right, but if you want the real moog sound, get a real moog. Seeing that you just need it for bass and want something small w/o keys, and want the moog sound, you basically described the minitaur to a tee.
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14th August 2012
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2007 Location: Emeryville CA
Posts: 1,967
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I've never had a minitaur, but I've heard some great stuff from it and had a short time to play with it in a Guitar Center. One thing that stood out to me was its limited MIDI range makes it really just a bass synth, where the ATCs work as overall monosynths and are great for leads as well. The Minitaur will probably have snappier envelopes if it's anything like the Phattys. (I own a Slim Phatty)
Anyway, if you've searched around GS you've probably seen my praise of the ATC-1. It just has a solid weight to the sound that I can't get enough of. Sure, I like my other monosynths for their own traits, but when I want something to really give a big bass sound that seems to magically slip into a mix, I'll spark up the ATC. I liked it so much I upgraded to an ATC-x QFS, which just adds more filter types and a distortion effect, which is pretty great.
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14th August 2012
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#9 | | Gear addict
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 329
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Happy long timer owner of an ATC-1 (since 1997), really good bass fundament! But the envelopes are not the fastest. As far as I can compare it to the Moog sound, the ATC has a bit more a "waveshaping" oscillator sound, but I never compared it side by side to a real Moog. They say that the filter of the ATC is really close to the Moog ladder filter..but honestly..who cares..this machine is excellent for bass music in general..as far as you're not searching fast envelopes, something that can be really important for bass sounds..transients..
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14th August 2012
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#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
Seems like the ATC Xi might be my ideal one of that bunch. Really leaning that way. Doesn't have to be a moog, but does have to be especially good at bass.
Some analogue solutions stuff I saw also really got my attention for sheer synthiness. Ugh. GAS.
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14th August 2012
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Norway
Posts: 534
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The ATC and the SE-1x (which I own) are both full-range monos, both spectacular in the bass department, albeit perhaps better at slightly more "complex" bass sounds than your bog-standard Moog. For that I prefer the new Minitaur (which I also own), it's more immediate and has "that" sound. The flipside is of course the lack of onboard preset management, the limited range and a slightly amputated envelope section. I'm happy with having both, they fill different roles 
Btw, how about the upcoming Waldorf Pulse2? If you _don't_ overdrive the filter, it's not miles away from the classic ladder and if you do, it's a techno bass monster (if it's similar to the P1's sound, which I assume it is).
r,
j,
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15th August 2012
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
ATC Xi is a strong contender of that lot.
Gotta say, I just say some clips of Moog Source and that is a synth I really dig. Love it. That's basically the mood I had in mind. I already have a chroma polaris, so I know what a pain in the ass old membrane panels can be. And I don't really want another keyboard per se.
If I believe I can get enough of that sound from a studio electronics piece that would be great. Whats odd is that I ought to like the Slim Phatty, on paper it's what I want. Right now none of what I've heard makes me want one though. And the Moog Source is the one I like the sound of so instantly. It would have been nice to not have to go with something that is so likely to need lots of service and attention as a vintage source.
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15th August 2012
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2007 Location: Emeryville CA
Posts: 1,967
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce ATC Xi is a strong contender of that lot.
Gotta say, I just say some clips of Moog Source and that is a synth I really dig. Love it. That's basically the mood I had in mind. I already have a chroma polaris, so I know what a pain in the ass old membrane panels can be. And I don't really want another keyboard per se.
If I believe I can get enough of that sound from a studio electronics piece that would be great. Whats odd is that I ought to like the Slim Phatty, on paper it's what I want. Right now none of what I've heard makes me want one though. And the Moog Source is the one I like the sound of so instantly. It would have been nice to not have to go with something that is so likely to need lots of service and attention as a vintage source. | I don't know about the longevity of the ATC's membrane panel. My ATC was fairly old (not sure how old, I bought it used) and it worked perfectly. The ATC-x I replaced it with seems to have pretty much the same membrane, though they've "cyber'd up" the text next to buttons and I hate it. Looks better...but in the dim light of my studio it's good that I already know what the buttons are supposed to say.
BTW, the manuals of SE products are horrible. The fact that they charge extra for one if you've lost yours is a joke. The good news is if you've used a subtractive synth before you'll really not need one. I've had a few dealings with SE via email and phone and they were very helpful.
I have a Slim Phatty too, and I like that one quite a bit too, but there's no doubt that it's a different sound. Snappier envs for sure and I love how that filter gets all gritty when you up the over drive, but for round warm sounds the ATC wins IMO. The ATC is made of rubber and the Phatty is made of wood. That's how I categorize them in my head.  They're common enough that you should be able to find one at a local shop pretty easily, but do not just go though the presets, as they are the some of the worst I've ever experienced in factory presets. If you have a Guitar Center near you they have a very good return policy so maybe you can even take one home for a few days to see if you bond with it.
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15th August 2012
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
Cool
I'm really thinking over how I love the Moog Source. Just love it's sound right away and it seems fun.
Would any SE product sound similar and be as fun? I'm not sure.
The SE stuff would be more practices for a number of reasons, but the Source inspired the GAS to begin with. I might suck it up and get another vintage guy. Anyone prefer the SE to the moog Source?
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15th August 2012
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#15 | | Bace
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 524
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I re-pre-ordered my SEM Boomstar after I saw the circuit boards on SE's Facebook. It restored my faith, but I get the feeling if they just got the boards in a couple weeks ago, we could be waiting at least another month.
IMO they should at least start with 1000 for each type. How long should that take to build??
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15th August 2012
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2007 Location: S.California
Posts: 1,061
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You just have to go with what moves you.For me I would go with the ATC for the xtra filters alone.... and I don't like the little screen on the phatty's and prefer a big L.E.D.All the brands mentiond in this thread are great but it's all about how you use them and thats a personal thing.There is no right answer to your question.
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15th August 2012
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#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2009 Location: UK
Posts: 914
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I own the SE1x, Omega 8 and the Moog Voyager
Of those I,d go for the SE1x, great hands on
Has a lovely tone to it and does bass wonderfully
Has a bit more in the character department than the Voyager
IMO, 3 osc with multiple waves per osc, 2 filter types.
My two cents
LK
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16th August 2012
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#18 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2006 Location: australia
Posts: 1,008
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I have owned my ATC1 since 1996 and it makes it into just about every track I do. It sounds great and is really solid. I have the 303, sem and moog filters. Generally use the moog, but te sem filter sounds grittier. Awesome synth. Pretty cheap used. A no brainer.
Also had the SE1 for a year or two but ended up selling it to funde other purchases. I preferred the sound of the atc even though the se1 had more knobs and one more osc.
I'd go the original ATC as best bang for buck.
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16th August 2012
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#19 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
I just gotta find an ATC around here somewhere. It's -very- appealing.
That said, the freaking Moog Source is still something I love and is sort of the instrument I am shooting for sonically. It's just that I don't prefer to have another keyboard, and not having midi just means there is a little more work for me to integrate it into my setup. Neither are dealbreakers. It's just that I really dig it's sound, but wonder how much the ATC1 or it's brothers or sisters could scratch the same itch as their form factor, preset, and such seem like the perfect fit for what I want as well. I swear I'm covering one end of the intertubes to the other searching out video and audio clips of these.
Weird how some pieces of gear just jump out at you (and I've owned a lot of gear through the years). Some gear just vibes with you, and that same gear may or may not be popular or versatile or anything else. I'm kind of getting that feeling from the Source. I just instantly like all of it's sounds, so I might just deal with the keys and lack of midi. If I can really play with an ATC1 that would let me know if I could scratch the itch with a more modern piece, which would be wonderful and practical as long as it was as fun and inspiring. I won't buy gear that isn't fun for me anymore. If it ain't fun then why bother?
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16th August 2012
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#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oceania
Posts: 2,441
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__________________ Just call me SDS Keep things simple: A can-opener lets you eat, not a microwave (Waldorf branded products excluded).  | |
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16th August 2012
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#21 | | Gear nut
Joined: Aug 2009 Location: San Antonio
Posts: 134
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theres also a VCA mod for the ATC to make it more 'moogy'
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16th August 2012
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Norway
Posts: 534
| Quote:
Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer | Very interesting read (can't believe I missed it when it was going on). It kinda mirrors my thoughts, for Moog balls go Moog, for more experimental (for lack of a better word) sounds, try an SE. I've never heard an ATC sound that tinny before, though, and the 1x has a good bit more bottom.
...and I still don't gel with the Jupe6/8 as a bass machine, I've never liked my MKS80 in that department and the test sounds confirm it, I just don't like it.
r,
j,
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16th August 2012
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#23 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,691
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce Cool
I'm really thinking over how I love the Moog Source. Just love it's sound right away and it seems fun.
Would any SE product sound similar and be as fun? I'm not sure.
The SE stuff would be more practices for a number of reasons, but the Source inspired the GAS to begin with. I might suck it up and get another vintage guy. Anyone prefer the SE to the moog Source? | I did the Studio Electronics thing for a while - tried the SE1x, ATC1, ATCXi and I sold them and in the end settled with a Moog Source. I just love the tone of the Moog Source - its showed me how nice vintage analogue can be...even tho it is much more basic in function than those SE synths - its basic sound is beautiful. And its really fun to play. Check out the 'pointless noodling on the moog source' video on youtube.
The SE synths are good no doubt - but the soft envelopes and the tone of the oscillators didnt work for me - and I never quite 'loved' any of them...For me they seemed very suited for Hip Hop basslines and slower funk styles. The bass is thick and powerful but not that tight.
Given that your ears have picked up on the sound of the Source - Id be tempted just to advise you to go for it. I havent found anything modern, and affordable (Macbeth Micromac!) yet that can replace its tone - and Ive been trying. In my view its better to 'love' the sound of a synth rather than be practical about functionality. Get more synths if you need more functionality!
Trying them in person tho is ultimately the best way...ATC1 and second hand Slim Phatty are not too expensive...
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16th August 2012
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#24 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Norway
Posts: 534
| Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 The SE synths are good no doubt - but the soft envelopes and the tone of the oscillators didnt work for me - and I never quite 'loved' any of them...For me they seemed very suited for Hip Hop basslines and slower funk styles. The bass is thick and powerful but not that tight. | Possibly very true, it's all dub over here... 
r,
j,
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16th August 2012
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#25 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 I did the Studio Electronics thing for a while - tried the SE1x, ATC1, ATCXi and I sold them and in the end settled with a Moog Source. I just love the tone of the Moog Source - its showed me how nice vintage analogue can be...even tho it is much more basic in function than those SE synths - its basic sound is beautiful. And its really fun to play. Check out the 'pointless noodling on the moog source' video on youtube.
The SE synths are good no doubt - but the soft envelopes and the tone of the oscillators didnt work for me - and I never quite 'loved' any of them...For me they seemed very suited for Hip Hop basslines and slower funk styles. The bass is thick and powerful but not that tight.
Given that your ears have picked up on the sound of the Source - Id be tempted just to advise you to go for it. I havent found anything modern, and affordable (Macbeth Micromac!) yet that can replace its tone - and Ive been trying. In my view its better to 'love' the sound of a synth rather than be practical about functionality. Get more synths if you need more functionality!
Trying them in person tho is ultimately the best way...ATC1 and second hand Slim Phatty are not too expensive... | Finally have a day off today, so I'll visit the music stores to see if I can hear any of these things in person again. I can be lead to believe that I'll end up with the source. I tried to like the other stuff, but I am paying attention to that gut feeling of things not vibe-ing with me. It might also be that so much music that I like and that was influential to me was made with a source that I find a certain immediate comfort with it's palate. It's similar money no matter which way I go. Now to get some coffee and head up to the music stores to bang around a bit and see if this changes my mind. It would be convenient if I found sounds on a slim phatty that I liked, but so far it's just not my cup of tea.
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17th August 2012
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#26 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
Played with the little phatty. It was ok. It didn't feel so drawn to it as the Source. Hard to explain. I'm sure it's fine and all, but I ain't getting one. Still thinking about the Source, though.
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22nd August 2012
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#27 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 1,022
Thread Starter |
yup, can't explain what made me not vibe with the little phatty's and whatnot. they seemed ok, but that's about it.
bought a moog source and kenton midi to cv box. I'll have it all next week.
I wasn't looking for more keys, but somehow that seems like the right answer for me. I'm sure I'm going to be very happy to add that guy to the synth garden I've got going on.
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11th November 2012
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#28 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2009 Location: New York
Posts: 640
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Veck Happy long timer owner of an ATC-1 (since 1997), really good bass fundament! But the envelopes are not the fastest. As far as I can compare it to the Moog sound, the ATC has a bit more a "waveshaping" oscillator sound, but I never compared it side by side to a real Moog. They say that the filter of the ATC is really close to the Moog ladder filter..but honestly..who cares..this machine is excellent for bass music in general..as far as you're not searching fast envelopes, something that can be really important for bass sounds..transients.. | What exactly is a "wave shaping Oscillator sound" what does that mean? less warmth/????? pls respond lol
I was really gonna pull the trigger on an ATC, until someone posted that comparison... There was something specific I was looking for, and that comparison nailed it. Thank you
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