Roland D50

[tiz9000]

I think the D-50 will complement what you have already pretty well. Maybe not so much the simple waveform + filter models but certainly the PCM/combos and top-heavy atmosphere stuff it can do. I forget, does the JD800 have PCM waveforms or just analog style oscs?

[tiz9000]

Actually just read up on the JD-800 myself, and this link:

Roland JD-800 | Vintage Synth Explorer

... claims the PCM stuff inside is based on the D-50. So I dunno, maybe the two would be redundant after all.

I didn't know the JD-800 had multimode filters. That's nice. I wish more polys from the 80s and 90s did, too.

[xanderbeanz]

You could buy an MT32 for $50, whilst it is slightly dwarfed by it's bigger brother, it actually sounds lovely and may hold off your L.A. GAS for a good while.

[Analog Prophet]

Originally Posted by xanderbeanz

You could buy an MT32 for $50, whilst it is slightly dwarfed by it's bigger brother, it actually sounds lovely and may hold off your L.A. GAS for a good while.

One can not compare the toy MT32 with D50 - it's a universe of quality difference. The D50 will be a perfect companion to your setup.

[xanderbeanz]

Yep, the D/A convertors are especially bad, but layering it with other synths can mask these imperfections and give you a bit of LA flavour for not much money at all.

[DesolationBlvd]

Started on D-5, one of the little-D models. D-50 blows it out of the water.

JD-800 does not have the analog-style oscs or the ring mod to my knowledge.


Also, better polyphony on D-50 than on JD-800. 32 vs. 24 partials at a time.

[javd007]

D50 is a completely different animal. It was my first synth.

[Analog Prophet]

The only reason I had to sell my D550 (among many other things) was moving overseas from a large house and studio to a small apartment with very limited space. Miss the D550 (rack version of D50 in dual form). Miss the sound of D50 and all the great presets I made during the years.

[Pro5]

[tehlord]

Everybody needs to own a D50 to play with the 'Digital Native Dance' preset and least once in their life.

Ahhhh, memories.

[getmethough]

yeah I basically do want a D-50 u convinced me

tell me, if i get the rack version, am I going to miss the Joystick? what is the joystick used for? do i need it?

would u advise the keyboard version over the rack?

thanks for all the replies!

[Analog Prophet]

No, you won't. It's a relief to not gt the joystick. The rack version has in addition to the D50 split and dual that makes it to a winner. The keyboard of the D50 is also a thing not so good. But still, the sound...

[getmethough]

Cool thanks, but what is the purpose of the joystick if you don't mind me asking?

[NWSooner]

It's more expensive, but depending on your available space (looks like you have a few keyboards already) and whether or not you're interested in the V-Synth stuff you might consider a V-Synth XT. It's a rackmount/desktop with a touchscreen and has a D50 card in it.

Check here for a detailed review of the D50 card:

SoS VC1 (D50) review

[projectwoofer]

I'd say get the D-50 but I wouldn't ditch the JD-800 for it as previously suggested. Well, I would, but only for a JD-990 with vintage synth expansion!

[Sudad G]

I have the D-550 (Rackversion of D-50) and the JD-990 (Rackversion of JD-800).

On the first view they look similar in sound architecture (LA-synthesis), but they sound completely different. The D-50 could sound more like "a wild beast" compared to the JD-990/800 if you use more the analog style synth sounds.

The preset "Spacious Sweep" is a good example. You can't get it from a JD-990/800.

The JD-800/990 sounds more beautiful and softer...or more "hi-fi", but is also a great synth with other possibilities. So don't sell it.

Another point is, that there are so many sounds in the web for the D-50...so it would be a good complement to your setup.

There are so many amazing synths from the 80s and 90s, but the D-50 surprise me even today with fresh sounds and a workhorse for certain sounds...or in simple wordds: A D-50 is a D-50. "A must have synth". That's it!

Sudad G

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by Sudad G

I have the D-550 (Rackversion of D-50) and the JD-990 (Rackversion of JD-800).

On the first view they look similar in sound architecture (LA-synthesis), but they sound completely different.

Well, the JD-990 is not the rack version of the JD-800 but rather a whole updated engine based on the JD-800 and it doesn't use LA synthesis as the D-50 does...More info here by Don:

Roland JD-990: info and synthesis examples (contribution by Don Solaris)

[Sudad G]

Originally posted by projectwoofer
Well, the JD-990 is not the rack version of the JD-800 but rather a whole updated engine based on the JD-800 and it doesn't use LA synthesis as the D-50 does...More info here by Don:

Yes and no. All the Roland synths that came after the D-50 used a form of LA-synthesis with a lot of modifications and variations of course. But they are all based on the 4 partial combination between sample ROMs and synth waveforms filtered by the Roland famous TVF Filter and with TVA Amps and separate 5 stage envelopes for each filter, amp and pitch..also used in their hardware S-sampler series (S-770,750,760 etc.)

The JD-990 was the last big LA-synth that Roland developed and the most powerfull instrument with that synthesis. So it has of course more features than the JD-800 (More PCM waves, paning possibilites per part, PWM and crossmodulation).
You could convert manually some sounds of D-50 to a JD-800/JD-990 or even to a S-750 (e.g. resampling feature in S-series offers the complete D-50 structures) because they offer - not exact - but similar filters, envelopes and structures.

I do this very often to have the same sounds in all the three instruments but with a slightly different character, because of their different D/As, different filter types etc. So if you know to tweak a D-50 very well you should not need a manual to programm a JD-800, JD-990 or S-series samplers.

With the JP-8000/8080 and the V-synth Roland started a complete new synthesis.


So back to the thread...I remarked certain sound character of those following Roland synths:

D-50: Amazing and unique sound. Sometimes a little bit rough, but very warm and with a big boom in bass range.

D-550: The same like D-50, but with little less noise and better MIDI timing.

D-70: Although the follower of D-50 it sounds very boring and lifeless compared to D-50/550...more like a JV-series model.

JD-800: Very expensive and "hi-fi" sounding LA-synth. Closer to the D-50 than the D-70 or JV-series

JD-990: Sound like the JD-800 but offers more synth possibilities and PWM and crossmodulation and individual panning for each partial.

So my recommandation for getmethough would be the combination of D-550 and JD-990 or D-550 and JD-800. They would make you happy.


Sudad G

[Rompetigo]

How's the MIDI implementation and keybed on the D-50? I'm strongly considering one to use as a master keyboard as well as a workhorse synth. Would I be better off getting the D550 and a MIDI controller? The rack is almost the same price as the keyboard version.

[Pro5]

To answer about the joystick. It's 'main' usefulness is for editing, much easier than on the rack as you can make large changes more quickly with a device like the joystick vs up/down buttons.. of course you can type in many values anyway.

For performance it can be used to balance between u/l tones and partials - a feature I rarely use and doesn't feel as implemented or as useful as Roland probably thought at the time (it's no wavestation joystick). However a patch could be programmed for live use in particular where the joystick would be useful to balance U/L tones for seperate parts of a song (for ex). I'd rather have the joystick than not have! It also looks nice (weird thing to say?) but really adds some visual mojo to the D-50. It always did. Why someone would say 'am relieved to not have the joystick' I have no idea.

Rack can sound quieter on the outputs (as in less noise) if that bothers you. I much prefer the keyboard (I love the keybed) and the design of the synth in general - it's a classic design and looks gorgeous if in good condition. I've had 2 D-50s in good condition and missed the first one I sold so bought another The rack is fine, same sounds, still great it's up to you if you prefer racks to keyboards - i prefer keyboards 9/10 - am more productive with them and tend to want to get hands on/program them more + I can take em to the sofa (yes even a full size synth like the D50) and be inspired, can't really do that with an anonymous black box. Also, small thing, the LCD on the keyboard is very sexy green ON black not the other way as on the rack. It blends in with the surface of the synth. I also like the roland bender stick (side to side) far more than any up/down wheel, have always found it more fun that way.

but really it's the SOUND that counts so either!

[projectwoofer]

Originally Posted by Sudad G

Yes and no. All the Roland synths that came after the D-50 used a form of LA-synthesis with a lot of modifications and variations of course. But they are all based on the 4 partial combination between sample ROMs and synth waveforms filtered by the Roland famous TVF Filter and with TVA Amps and separate 5 stage envelopes for each filter, amp and pitch..also used in their hardware S-sampler series (S-770,750,760 etc.)

The JD-990 was the last big LA-synth that Roland developed and the most powerfull instrument with that synthesis. So it has of course more features than the JD-800 (More PCM waves, paning possibilites per part, PWM and crossmodulation).
You could convert manually some sounds of D-50 to a JD-800/JD-990 or even to a S-750 (e.g. resampling feature in S-series offers the complete D-50 structures) because they offer - not exact - but similar filters, envelopes and structures.

I do this very often to have the same sounds in all the three instruments but with a slightly different character, because of their different D/As, different filter types etc. So if you know to tweak a D-50 very well you should not need a manual to programm a JD-800, JD-990 or S-series samplers.

With the JP-8000/8080 and the V-synth Roland started a complete new synthesis.


So back to the thread...I remarked certain sound character of those following Roland synths:

D-50: Amazing and unique sound. Sometimes a little bit rough, but very warm and with a big boom in bass range.

D-550: The same like D-50, but with little less noise and better MIDI timing.

D-70: Although the follower of D-50 it sounds very boring and lifeless compared to D-50/550...more like a JV-series model.

JD-800: Very expensive and "hi-fi" sounding LA-synth. Closer to the D-50 than the D-70 or JV-series

JD-990: Sound like the JD-800 but offers more synth possibilities and PWM and crossmodulation and individual panning for each partial.

So my recommandation for getmethough would be the combination of D-550 and JD-990 or D-550 and JD-800. They would make you happy.


Sudad G

Unfortunately I don't have the time to give detailed explanations right now but a few points: The D-50 is a totally different beast than D-70, JD-800/990. The first is using LA synthesis, ie short 8-bit samples used mainly for the attack of the sound and real time calculated waves and filter just like a VA synth for the body of the sound.

The others are ROMPLERS. It doesn't matter if they use the same 4-tone structures or the name "TVF" etc. They use samples as their oscillators, not just for the attack but the whole sound and they don't have real time calculated oscillators like the D-50. They just reproduce samples. The JD-800 and 990 DON'T have PWM although this can be recreated by using inverted saws. Also, the filters on these are completely different both in sound as well as behaviour.

I'm also not aware of any kind of sound conversion between D-50 and JD...again, totally different synths.

[Sudad G]

It's true that the D-50/550 is more a virtual analog synth if you use the structure 1 and structer 2 of its sound engine. In structure 6 and 7 the D-50/550 is also only a rompler with short attack and simple sustain samples that cannot be filtered. With the D-70 Roland offered the possibility to filter even the PCM waves in structure 6 and 7 with the TVF filter, but it lost the power that the D-50 had in structure 1 and 2 because they changed the sound engine a little bit for that. So the D-70 was not really a succesfull synth and more like a rompler in sound character.

With the JD-800 Roland designed a new sound engine which is sample based that's true (but with different filter types and one of them also the 24dB LPF TVF of the D-series synths) that offers a better and modified LA-synthesis and with the advantage to filter the PCM waves. Even the PCM waves had an increased quality. Better piano samples longer waves etc.
With the JD-990 they offered - not a real - but sample based PWM and again the oscillator-sync and frequency cross modulation, that the JD-800 didn't had, but the D-50/550.
So independent from what happens under the technical surface the JD-990 is the "Mega LA-synth" for me. Anyway D-50 and JD-990 sound in many ways different, beause it's true that the D-50 has a real VA-synth engine in structure 1 and 2. But it is possible to convert some of the synth sounds to the JD-990 or S-750 and combine them with better acoustic samples. Especially if you use a SAW or SQUARE sounding wave in the JD models. The LPF filters and envelopes have nearly the same behavior, but the D-50 has a little bit more power and distortion in the filter.
(Rem: I have some converted sounds of my D-550 in my JD-990 and S-750. For example I take a nice 2 partial sawpad of D-550 and converted it to the JD-990. I take also a saw wave in JD-990 and copied exactly the same parameters of the filters, envelopes and LFOs. Sound was nearly similar. Then I combined it with the better sounding piano waves of JD-990. The result was a JD-Piano but layerd with a D-50 saw pad. Of course there are many sounds that only the D-50/550 can produce - especially the more analog sounding power chord and lead sounds and the sounds with real time PWM over aftertouch and velocity - they have a unique character that makes a D-50 even today a must have synth. The 20-Bit D/A converter of the D-50/550 generates a power that I have never heard before and after from another digital synth. Although the D-50 produces a remarkable noise, it has this special "wow what a power" effect. You feel it, when you play this synth. Very high dynamic range. You can start with a calm and soft sound and with aftertouch you change this sound into a loud and huge and aggressive sound in realtime that you will be scared. I have never find that in actual synths. Really cool machine.
The envelopes and filters react very similar, but I dont want to repeat it, the sound character of both synths is of course different. So to have both synths is the best choice.



Sudad G

[Pro5]

my updated, revised and now totally informed opinion: Get both the D-50/D-550 and either a JD-800 or a JD-990.

My only dilemma now is do I sell my beloved D-50 to make room for my new love JD-800? Or..... dump the P6 (one on stands, other in perma-storage)... or the SY77... and no I don't want any racks, am streamlining but I love keys. Am leaning towards selling the D-50, but will see if I can convert my best stuff over from the SY77 to software (I actually did convert some of my best D-50 patches to FM8!! though they were lacking the D-50 mojo obviously) then maybe let that go.

Having previously sold my D-50, and then missing it and buying another, I have to think ahead this time, I know for sure the JD-800 is actually covering at least part of what my D-50 was doing, but more cleanly + I love just using the JD-800 - such a fun synth! but it doesn't quite have that warmth or liveliness of the D-50 (not that I mind as I love it for what it does do that the D-50 can't). SY77 has been a nice workhorse, good controller but it's the same footprint (size) almost as the JD-800 - two giant digital behemoths, would like to get the JD-800 front and central with a simple analog above (either the Polysix or JX-3P)...

Could keep 4 synths but would prefer just 2 ultimately, less distraction more work Am doing well, at one point I had 14? keyboard synths all up and running at once - I recognized my obsession and started to sort it, easy, until I hit these last few synths and just can't decide what to lose!

sorry, thinking out loud.

[jaytranzmit]

The D50/550 is a great synth, certainly worth owning. Still even today a surprisingly good sounding synth

[bluegreengold]

Originally Posted by xanderbeanz

Yep, the D/A convertors are especially bad, but layering it with other synths can mask these imperfections and give you a bit of LA flavour for not much money at all.

It depends on if your LA style reference is late 80s pop music or if it's Sierra video games. Either one is valid, but choosing one when you want the other is going to be disappointing.

[Pro5]

NEVER buy an MT32 while thinking you want a D-50, this will only lead to a lot of wasted time, disappointment and much resentment.

There IS no alternative to a D-50 (or D-550). Totally unique. If you want one, get one, don't even stop to look at anything else with a 'D' in the name.

[Mr. Varaldo]

Originally Posted by Pro5

don't even stop to look at anything else with a 'D' in the name.

I disagree. Ok with the MT-32 / D-5 / D-10 / D-20 / D-110 being not as good as the D-50 / D-550, but the D-70 sounds really fabulous and has a D in the name.

[Pro5]

D-70 - yeah, similar to JD-800 but without hands on (not debating the semantics but along those lines yes) - my point is anyone wanting 'D-50' can only get THAT sound totally from the D-50, didn't mean all other D synths were crap (even though 95% of them are)