Hardware DAW for Electronic Music Composition?

[Hi PHi]

The Elektron Octatrack covers most of your requirements. It's a powerful, versatile piece of gear.

[fyrebaul]

I would recommend purchasing an outboard self-discipline module. This will allow you to use the computer you already have in a capacity that meets your desires as described above.

[cixelsyd]

I use a Roland mv8000. Meets all the requirements you listed. I'm still learning new stuff about it after using it for 3 years.

[ephemera505]

MPC may fit the bill. Has 2 midi ins/ 4 midi outs.

[Bonkks]

Get a f@$king laptop and reaper and stop wasting all of our time. Digital otb recording makes no sense.

[Bonkks]

Sorry about that last post, but as some one working OTB besides recording I just don't see non analogue OTB recording making any sense. At least get yourself an analogue mixer and record in to a normal DAW. A digital OTB daw has zero benefit.

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by Bonkks

Get a f@$king laptop and reaper and stop wasting all of our time. Digital otb recording makes no sense.

[top dog]

As a newbie user of MPC1000 i can recommend it as your DAW equivalent.
Really powerful machine, great functionality... MPC made its name in Hip Hop music and house, but I'm sure you can sequence your keyboard oriented music as easy as on any hardware sequencer. Of course you cannot replace Ableton or Logic editing convenience and possibilities with one HW piece - it will be more difficult to edit sequences and tracks compared to Computer DAWs, but still MPC is a big deal! One of biggest benefits - cool operating system JJ OS (it worth some $$$), easy files transaction (USB), saving your work on CF Cards and great workflow.
Do you have hw synths? i suggest you have. So then you can eaily sequence it with MPC
If vsti's are your only instruments i can recommend to stay in the box - i don't see many sense in recording audio from computer to any hw gear imho

[acealive]

Originally Posted by Bonkks

Get a f@$king laptop and reaper and stop wasting all of our time. Digital otb recording makes no sense.

digital OTB recording does make sense to me, just not the mxing.

For example, I record Live-jams with a Zoom R16 (8-Track digital recording to SD card).

it's portable and I can plug in a couple of synths and drummachines and just start jamming.

of course, when mixing it, I just put the SD Card in the computer and drag & drop the WAV files in my DAW...

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by restpause

What would you suggest as a good budget versatile portable
hardware DAW?

A computer. You included the magic word "budget".

What you want to do is ass-backwards.

Here are the facts:

- your computer sucks
- your discipline sucks (as fyrebaul already mentioned)

Don't internet/chat/mail/do small office work on the same system you make music on, get something separate for that. In fact, relegate your 2007 system to that duty and buy a new computer. This keeps your system free of a lot of the mess that clutters your current machine.

Back in the day you did not only have hardware; you also had more time and fewer obligations, perhaps even more energy. Now you drag yourself to the studio, sigh, and try to do something. Been there, done that, (still do it), got the t-shirt.

That downloading and configuring of stuff is a symptom, not a cause, and the computer's not to blame, you are. You do this because it's easier than making music.

An MPC is fun for exactly a few weeks, and then you notice that you're still not keeping up your keyboard chops, and you are stuck in recording loops, minus all the convenience you are used to now, from unlimited tracks to unlimited effects.

[wwjd]

Originally Posted by Bonkks

A digital OTB daw has zero benefit.

I guess a key point here is there IS NO digital recording outside of a box. ALL digital is ONLY in some kind of box.

That said if general definition of "box" only means a computer, there are plenty of great reasons for OTB digital:
- on site film audio
- sound effects
- nature recording
- live events
- ADR
- foley
- and a personal favorite: my musical writing style where hit record and play without ever staring at a screen or touching a mouse

I don't like hauling laptops, interfaces, wires and crap to these events. A simple digital DAW box is wonderful, just as easy usually easier.

[cub005@yahoo.co.]

There are plenty of good reasons for non-analog OTB. Simplicity is the main one.

[defenestration]

a friend of mine with similar needs recently purchased a korg d3200 and was all excited about it, I haven't heard any followup from him on it yet though
Korg D3200

I somewhat agree with what else has already been said in this thread tho

[bluegreengold]

Yamaha made some great ones.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by defenestration

a friend of mine with similar needs recently purchased a korg d3200 and was all excited about it, I haven't heard any followup from him on it yet though
Korg D3200

I somewhat agree with what else has already been said in this thread tho

Those are cool machines, used one in a band setting before. Hope he doesn't want lots of simultaneous effects. Only get 8 to use across 32 channels. Sometimes not even that much....

I've often wondered about the Tascam Neo 32-track.

thanks guys, you all made some good points that I appreciate, minus a few character attack-like comments mixed in with also good advice. I will think about what you said.

[Yoozer]

Saying your discipline sucks is hardly attacking your character. Sure, you could argue that "sucks" is a pretty heavy term. Doesn't matter if you're disciplined in your day job and work your ass off with whatever you do; you've described what you do when you're trying to compose music.

It may suck, but that doesn't mean it can't be cured. It also doesn't say that you're unpleasant - now that would be a character attack. Currently, there's only one person judging you for wasting time: yourself. The rest of the planet just moves on and doesn't care much, unless you're also involved in a band with this, then they probably judge you for it too, if you're expected to deliver the goods.

Thing is; you have a problem that's psychological; and you're looking for a technological solution. That can work - if the solution actually manages to solve the psychological component as well, but that's not a guarantee. It's better to look for a psychological solution because it's generally cheaper and worth more in the end. It's just not faster because you need to change your habits, and people are creatures of habit.

Spending money is the easiest thing there is. That's why folks rather buy a piece of new gear than delve deeper in their existing stuff. I don't care about this, because there's nothing on earth saying that you should know your gear inside out, except for a few grumpy people on forums, and you can safely ignore them because they can't touch you. They're not going to be your fans anyway, so don't invest any energy in 'm.

Tinkering with computers is like sorting and naming samples and organizing patches; boring stuff that needs to be done. Your rig should work and give you a minimum of headaches. The only time you should interact with it is when you click your DAW's icon to start it up, the rest of the time it should stay out of your way. That's hard, because the OS loves to bother you with all kinds of insignificant crap that's not conducive to making music. The only way to do that is to have a dedicated machine for it because every piece of stuff you are going to install is going to require maintenance.

With software, it's attractive to load up a whole load of plugins. Here's an idea: print a fullsize screenshot of every plugin you have - one plug per page - and place it somewhere in the room. If those were hardware equivalents, you'd quickly see how much space they demand; thinking that a DAW plus some plugins is "minimal" is laughable, because it's really easy to rack up 20-30 plugs and because they don't take room they seemingly do not count.

DAWs are pretty complex; anything else aiming for equivalent power is going to be equally complex. What it will however offer is a dedicated interface. Stuff like a simple transport controller can already make a night and day difference, because you don't have to search for the Record button; you just hit it and are done with it.

There are lots of solutions that allow you to have your cake and eat it as well. Not all of 'm require big investments in terms of money.

re: feeling more productive years ago - really, take off the rose-colored glasses and consider all factors that come into play. Again, it's easy to just buy the setup you had back then and dump everything else. What you can't buy is time, and time often makes a far bigger difference.

why yes, I'm also aware of it that I have 7k+ posts here and they're a big cause of me not getting anything done. That's what I do instead of tinkering with software

[ChristianRock]

The problem with most digital multi-track recorders (or perhaps all of them...) is that the converters pretty much suck, and the effects options are really limited and in general suck as well. So you're stuck with an inferior sound to start with and you gotta ask if you're serious about your music - if you are not, then an inferior sound is not an issue, I guess. But if you want the best sound possible with a small budget, a computer is going to be the only way to get it. The bang-for-buck factor of a computer setup is off the roof compared to any other options.

[cixelsyd]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Saying your discipline sucks is hardly attacking your character. Sure, you could argue that "sucks" is a pretty heavy term. Doesn't matter if you're disciplined in your day job and work your ass off with whatever you do; you've described what you do when you're trying to compose music.

It may suck, but that doesn't mean it can't be cured. It also doesn't say that you're unpleasant - now that would be a character attack. Currently, there's only one person judging you for wasting time: yourself. The rest of the planet just moves on and doesn't care much, unless you're also involved in a band with this, then they probably judge you for it too, if you're expected to deliver the goods.

Thing is; you have a problem that's psychological; and you're looking for a technological solution. That can work - if the solution actually manages to solve the psychological component as well, but that's not a guarantee. It's better to look for a psychological solution because it's generally cheaper and worth more in the end. It's just not faster because you need to change your habits, and people are creatures of habit.

Spending money is the easiest thing there is. That's why folks rather buy a piece of new gear than delve deeper in their existing stuff. I don't care about this, because there's nothing on earth saying that you should know your gear inside out, except for a few grumpy people on forums, and you can safely ignore them because they can't touch you. They're not going to be your fans anyway, so don't invest any energy in 'm.

Tinkering with computers is like sorting and naming samples and organizing patches; boring stuff that needs to be done. Your rig should work and give you a minimum of headaches. The only time you should interact with it is when you click your DAW's icon to start it up, the rest of the time it should stay out of your way. That's hard, because the OS loves to bother you with all kinds of insignificant crap that's not conducive to making music. The only way to do that is to have a dedicated machine for it because every piece of stuff you are going to install is going to require maintenance.

With software, it's attractive to load up a whole load of plugins. Here's an idea: print a fullsize screenshot of every plugin you have - one plug per page - and place it somewhere in the room. If those were hardware equivalents, you'd quickly see how much space they demand; thinking that a DAW plus some plugins is "minimal" is laughable, because it's really easy to rack up 20-30 plugs and because they don't take room they seemingly do not count.

DAWs are pretty complex; anything else aiming for equivalent power is going to be equally complex. What it will however offer is a dedicated interface. Stuff like a simple transport controller can already make a night and day difference, because you don't have to search for the Record button; you just hit it and are done with it.

There are lots of solutions that allow you to have your cake and eat it as well. Not all of 'm require big investments in terms of money.

re: feeling more productive years ago - really, take off the rose-colored glasses and consider all factors that come into play. Again, it's easy to just buy the setup you had back then and dump everything else. What you can't buy is time, and time often makes a far bigger difference.

why yes, I'm also aware of it that I have 7k+ posts here and they're a big cause of me not getting anything done. That's what I do instead of tinkering with software

= wisdom

[ChristianRock]

I thought the word "yoozer" meant "wisdom" in some ancient european language...