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Anyone on here producing compositions rather tahn just beats?
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SpacedOutBeats
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#1
11th August 2012
Old 11th August 2012
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Anyone on here producing compositions rather tahn just beats?

Hey, i have been making beats for my friends to rap on, and although i enjoy making them, im looking to progress into music that has composition. What i mean is like starting out one way, and by the end of the song having it sound completley different. I want to make music that tells a story, or send your mind to some creazy places. Artists such as ratat, shpongle, and beats antique are great examples of what i mean. Problem is, i dont even know how to start, i usually start with some awesome melodies but it will get boring after a while, i guess i need to practice changing the melody with the same instrument, then adding new instruments? I dont even know. Anyone on here who creates music like this rather than just rap beats or dance music? If so can you offer some advice, or show me some of your music!
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11th August 2012
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Yes, but most of us are afraid that if we put up unreleased material, it will be stolen.
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11th August 2012
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Isnt soundcloud safe
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11th August 2012
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No, it's not.

People will steal your Ideas. Remember, the internet is a free for all right now.
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11th August 2012
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I don't sound much like the stuff you've mentioned but I guess most of what I do sort of falls into the melodic driving at night stoned "category." Ironically I really try to make dance type stuff but I always end up doing what I guess I do best.

Anyways here's the latest I did complete with a key change in the middle for dramatic effect . I think at this point I'd be flattered if someone stole it..

http://soundcloud.com/mcgain/electro-sweep
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11th August 2012
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You're already composing, and so are hip hop and dance dudes. if you just want to grow musically, then take piano lessons or music theory, or just dedicate more time on the beats, and work at it. If you come up with cool melody, just rearrange it in your head, and lay it down for another part, etc...
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11th August 2012
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I don't know why anyone would be scared of stealing melodies -- the 12 scales we have means most melodies have been reused 4+ times or more by now.
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11th August 2012
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This is pretty much what we do. Well, my comrade dubbles, and I'm more melodic...or so we were told.

If I had any advice, it would be to build things up, like using Legos, and let the piece dictate itself what it will be. The melodies are always there waiting to be discovered.
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12th August 2012
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Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
I don't know why anyone would be scared of stealing melodies -- the 12 scales we have means most melodies have been reused 4+ times or more by now.
True, but if you have a pocket full of good ones, then that's all you really have as a writer. Imagine if Jimmy Page put all his riffs on Gearslutz before he did Zepplin? All his cool ideas would have been used already by other people by the time his album was released.
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12th August 2012
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you ought to study a bit of music theory and learn about basic song structures—verse, chorus, bridge, etc.

it's a tough leap to go from making loops to actual full-fledged song structures with key/chord changes that work
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
True, but if you have a pocket full of good ones, then that's all you really have as a writer. Imagine if Jimmy Page put all his riffs on Gearslutz before he did Zepplin? All his cool ideas would have been used already by other people by the time his album was released.

This is an interesting comment. In my view jimmy page is not his ideas, rather his ideas reflect his essence. People and/or good musicians are always coming up with new ideas and great musicians neve stop this creative pursuit. It's not just the ideas, it's also about the ability to make ideas work.

I guess I'm wondering why anyone would get hung up about their ideas being stolen when everything in every type of music was borrowed anyway. I accept that copyright infringement is a separate case. My recommendation is to make as much music as possible and to share ideas as much as you can. This is how we learn.

My .02
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12th August 2012
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I'm curious as to why you feel that listening to people's tracks on here would be any more enlightening than listening to the track you actually want to emulate? I think everyone finds it difficult to get past the "8 bar loop" phase a lot of the time, and I reckon the previous advice is sound - just dive in and do anything - you can't break what you've already done by adding to it - someone said 'let it dictate' what it wants to be - wise words! Just lengthen it out, I usually then find it's too long and then you can improve by editing out anything that doesn't move the story on or punctuate it effectively. You already have the technique and vision for it - just dive in!
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacedOutBeats View Post
Hey, i have been making beats for my friends to rap on, and although i enjoy making them, im looking to progress into music that has composition. What i mean is like starting out one way, and by the end of the song having it sound completley different. I want to make music that tells a story, or send your mind to some creazy places. Artists such as ratat, shpongle, and beats antique are great examples of what i mean. Problem is, i dont even know how to start, i usually start with some awesome melodies but it will get boring after a while, i guess i need to practice changing the melody with the same instrument, then adding new instruments? I dont even know. Anyone on here who creates music like this rather than just rap beats or dance music? If so can you offer some advice, or show me some of your music!
You just have to try and make the music that you are imagining in your head. Eventually you will get close to the sound that you imagine. There is a lot of trial and error. But you will get there in the end.
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsyd View Post
This is an interesting comment. In my view jimmy page is not his ideas, rather his ideas reflect his essence. People and/or good musicians are always coming up with new ideas and great musicians neve stop this creative pursuit. It's not just the ideas, it's also about the ability to make ideas work.

I guess I'm wondering why anyone would get hung up about their ideas being stolen when everything in every type of music was borrowed anyway. I accept that copyright infringement is a separate case. My recommendation is to make as much music as possible and to share ideas as much as you can. This is how we learn.

My .02
No, he collected and saved his best riffs. He saved them for when it really counts. I've read his interviews.

Borrowed? sure, but your original intellectual property is yours, no one elses. That's all we have.
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12th August 2012
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Originally Posted by SpacedOutBeats View Post
I want to make music that tells a story, or send your mind to some creazy places.
i'd suggest looking up the names of composers who did films you've enjoyed musically.

film approaches differently from dance/beat. dynamics are MUCH more important. as is space. and the elements / goals are different too.

hunt down a few soundtracks and see if any of the pieces click with you (ie; u like the ideas going on, even if u don't know what they are).

once you've got a piece or two you can listen to see how they extended, developed, etc etc. in the end, much of it breaks down to repeating stuff in varying ways keeping one step ahead and not being too obscure.

Bladerunner (Vangelis) would probably be one I'd listen to. American Beauty (Newman) if you prefer more piano and natural instruments. Cliff Martinez did Drive, Traffic, Solaris (2002). But any film YOU like is a good starting point.
#16
12th August 2012
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If you come up with 8 bars of awesome and find yourself getting bored of it after a while.. maybe it's because it needs another section (or 2, or 3). write a new set of bars of material and focus on how to eventually transition into that new section. Songwriting in general has different sections where chords change up and rarely do you have a solidly composed song that stays on the same chord progression the entire time (even though it can be and has been done).

Make sure your music has a strong bass line as to not allow the main or initial material to even become remotely boring. It's important to be aware of the bass and even give it strong attention as to direct/guide the harmonic material of the song. You're absolutely right, it's not just about making a dope beat, you do want the song to move in directions and progress.. whether it comes back to repeat itself or ends the way it starts or differently altogether is what you feel as a composer.

It's best to play the song up to the point where it's going to end and let your mind continue playing the still unwritten music, perhaps somewhere new it should go now.. and then just write it! After the fundamental idea of a song is written, it starts to write itself and you adhere to that.

As for sharing our tracks and SoundCloud, etc… should I be worried that I recently put my mini-EP on SoundCloud free to download? I mean how else are we going to get maximum exposure? Anyway, here's a set of short and sweet songs/tracks I've very recently written:

Sonic BTS by Funk Fiction on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
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12th August 2012
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This "share everything and tell me what to do" mentality is getting out of hand now.

Study music. Come up with your own compositions. Make a 100 sh*t "spacey tells a story" whatever tunes. At least when you finally do get something down that you like, you can say you effing made it yourself.

Jesus christ.
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
True, but if you have a pocket full of good ones, then that's all you really have as a writer. Imagine if Jimmy Page put all his riffs on Gearslutz before he did Zepplin? All his cool ideas would have been used already by other people by the time his album was released.
I don't think Jimmy Page s the best person to refer to in this situation.

There are quite a few people who believe Mr Page took other people's ideas, riffs, and songs and used them without giving proper credit and recompense.

The Led Zeppelin Plagiarism Compendium

Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page Sued For Plagiarism Over "Dazed And Confused" - Classic Rock Forum





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12th August 2012
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Damn, every time I think I'm onto something new, some old guy shows up and tells me it's all been done before.
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12th August 2012
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I write and record ambient compositions. No beats.

I've always been more into atmosphere and mood.
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
True, but if you have a pocket full of good ones, then that's all you really have as a writer. Imagine if Jimmy Page put all his riffs on Gearslutz before he did Zepplin? All his cool ideas would have been used already by other people by the time his album was released.
I don't know if you are aware wherefrom Led Zeppelin got all their riffs and songs from with their first albums. The original blues masters are still annoyed...
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12th August 2012
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attempted compositions, with beats.
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12th August 2012
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Damn, every time I think I'm onto something new, some old guy shows up and tells me it's all been done before.
There is nothing new under the sun.

Originality is a completely overrated concept.

Execution on ideas is far more important.
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12th August 2012
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Jimmy Page doesn't just steal riffs, he rips off entire compositions, note for ****ing note.

Great guitar player, but a damn thief and plagiarist.

Just ask Burt Jansch.
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCount View Post
This "share everything and tell me what to do" mentality is getting out of hand now.

Study music. Come up with your own compositions. Make a 100 sh*t "spacey tells a story" whatever tunes. At least when you finally do get something down that you like, you can say you effing made it yourself.

Jesus christ.
You are arrogant, rude and insensitive!

Next thing, if left unchecked, you will tell the poor guy "listen to good music and transcribe it. Cover and mashup melodies you like. Read books: they often contain stories".

That's some untolerable patronizing!
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis View Post
There is nothing new under the sun..
and anyway, the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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12th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacedOutBeats View Post
Anyone on here who creates music like this rather than just rap beats or dance music? If so can you offer some advice, or show me some of your music!

Yes. Write your whole song before you start production. Have all the chords, melodies, and changes in place, where they all flow nicely into each other if you play them on piano or guitar while singing the melody. This can be done anywhere, doesn't even need to be your studio.

Once you have your song or composition planned out start to finish, where the melodies/chords/and changes carry it from start to finish, THEN produce it up.

That way you're not tripping out on your melodies and compositional ideas during production, where you hear them over and over a million times and lose perspective. You know they're solid before you start, so that once you start you can focus entirely on how to best execute them.

You'll move along a lot faster by separating the two very different creativities involved in composing and producing.

I've also found its good to compose several ideas for every one you produce, and only bother producing your best. You can often come up with 3 or 4 solid ideas in a day if you're not trying to produce and engineer them as you come up with them.
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12th August 2012
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Originally Posted by ozy View Post
You are arrogant, rude and insensitive!

Next thing, if left unchecked, you will tell the poor guy "listen to good music and transcribe it. Cover and mashup melodies you like. Read books: they often contain stories".

That's some untolerable patronizing!
Really? I told him to take ownership of his music education by "learn by doing" which if he does, he will eventually know what to do and have developed his own genuine style in the process.

Oh wait. You're sensitive so you took what i said as meeeaaan
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12th August 2012
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Yes, but most of us are afraid that if we put up unreleased material, it will be stolen.

Your fear of this will hurt you much more than help you. Put your stuff out there, for sure!
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13th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy View Post
You are arrogant, rude and insensitive!

Next thing, if left unchecked, you will tell the poor guy "listen to good music and transcribe it. Cover and mashup melodies you like. Read books: they often contain stories".

That's some untolerable patronizing!
Quoteth the man himself.
Are you writing a books on how to win friends and simultaneous troll internet forums
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