Yeah but what about all those cracks you use but don't own? Didn't pay for them did you! Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitheadtupay
You sound like a broke ass angry person who wishes everything was free.
You just mad REs can't be pirated you hobo mofo.
hmmm I don't think he means that. he's agry about corporate strategies.
You can agree or disagree with this POV: personally I'd say; "vote with your wallet, and don't waste your energy, unless you've been disadvantaged by said corporate policies".
Accusing ppl. of piracy is accusing people of theft. This, without evidence.
I see you're half joking, but piracy is taken very serious here on this forum.
So present evidence of criminal activities of m127c or Controlled_Volts, or retract your statements please.
I'm NOT having ANY unfounded insinuations, this creates a poisioned atmosphere, and doesn't help any discussion.
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Reason took a big leap in Rack Extensions. In fact, if you look a little harder, you'll see they've been taking big leaps for a long time (the whole patching thing on the back was revolutionary for the time it occurred in, especially considering how stable and minimally impactful to the CPU it was), but more recently, we got Record, which folded into Reason. This gave us SAMPLING any time we wanted it, in a variety of modules throughout the program. Just hit it and go. That was awesome. We can also record audio pretty easily, and even do rudimentary edits on it.
Now, they've unlocked the whole of the developer community to offer plugs with UNIQUE capabilities EXCLUSIVE to the Reason platform that can generally interact and cross modulate ANYTHING in your project.
This is insanely cool, and the tech is pretty seemless.
I'll give you that the plugs are little too expensive for how locked in they are. Yes. Reason doesn't even have MIDI, so why drop the coin if it doesn't want to be a serious DAW?
Well, that's up to you, but last time I checked, I haven't had to pay squat for Reason since version 5. Since then, they've given us some significant improvements and even a free module (through like Oct or whatever).
Upgrades like that in a DAW from 5 to 6.5 would usually cost you 150-200 bucks. I don't think Propellerheads has been greedy here, nor the devs. I don't even think there needs to be parity. I don't expect my UAD plugs to suddenly grow native limbs and climb into my Reason project and get cv dependent grooves going. It'd be nice, but they aren't RE's. That's cool. In the meanwhile, I'll think about what the Reason experience does for my creative workflow, and see if I can't leverage a little more work out with some of these new devices. Yeah, they aren't exactly cheap, but I don't know, I figure if I can have a bunch of unique versions of plugs that are supported forever through PH, that's probably worth it if the plug is that good.
Now. The above said, No MIDI OUT is a CRIME! Come on PH!!!
I have to agree with this take. I do think plugin manufacturers should offer a cheaper "upgrade" path to owners of their plugins in other formats (even if it's just a small discount), but it's hard to see where the fault of Propellerheads is in opening their platform to outside developers. And it's pretty cool to see familiar plugins in the freely patchable environment of Reason.
I do think plugin manufacturers should offer a cheaper "upgrade" path to owners of their plugins in other formats (even if it's just a small discount), but it's hard to see where the fault of Propellerheads is in opening their platform to outside developers.
Seriously, this would be really, really cool. I hope if anyone from gforce, korg, sugar bytes, fxpansion, softube, izotope++++++ are listening, that they consider this. What a grade cross-grade sales opportunity laying dormant. The logistics of proof of purchase might be a little tricky, but if your sites had some sort of application to maybe pull the data from ala syncing with a database on PH's side, that would be so damn cool.
What a meta offering RE's are. I guess we'll have to see how it all plays out. I don't blame those who find this to be a sort of "backing you into a corner" kind of strategy, but if you love PH enough in the first place because of Reason, I think the bigger picture comes into focus pretty quickly. PH just needs to get MIDI OUT going stat so us folks with hardware to sequence can start using Reason like it is practically BEGGING to be used.
imagine paying 40 dollars for a buffer over-ride from peff so i can "make other worldly sounds"
please…..
thank god i have reaper and know how to use rewire.
why are propellerheads designers/marketing guys so out of touch with reality ?
I too get angry about things that do not have to affect me.
Seriously, what's there to get pissed about if you've outsmarted them? Share how you did it with the rest of the planet, works better than ranting on forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlshft
Now, they've unlocked the whole of the developer community to offer plugs with UNIQUE capabilities EXCLUSIVE to the Reason platform
Platform exclusivity sucks. You'll have to buy other platforms to have everything.
We've got 6 plugin formats and counting. This is madness; it drives up the price for customers because developers have to deal with quirks on all 6 formats. It drives up the cost of developing for the developers. It makes bugs harder to track because each platform has its quirks.
At a time you had the AMT8 for Logic, the MOTU MIDI Express for Digital Performer, and the Midex 8 for Cubase, all giving you "platform-exclusive" accurate MIDI timing. It's platform lock-in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindred
VST - included
RTAS - included (if compatible)
DX - included (at least when it was still used)
Apple/Logic - included
Reason - $49 extra
VST/RTAS/DX/AU: all allow you to use a cross-platform GUI framework.
For Reason you have to design that part all over again, because it's got to fit in one of those dinky 756 pixel-wide rack units, and you probably have to use PH's toolkit to do it as well.
CV in Reason runs (most likely) at higher speeds than automation - but that also requires you to redesign your algorithms slightly to allow that.
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Platform exclusivity sucks. You'll have to buy other platforms to have everything.
Unique functionalities exclusive to the Reason rack format is a fact of form and function. Cubase doesn't simulate control voltage I/O on every plugin parameter and audio track and midi track etc. RE's do. This kind of flexibility is really cool, and couldn't be done elsewhere. Exclusivity is a limitation, but in this context it's like saying shoes suck because you can't wear them like a hat.
There's less difference between plugin formats than there is between shoes and hats.
VST does not allow for CV. It also didn't support sidechaining properly in the first version; that's why it went from 1.0 to 3.0 eventually.
The problem is that the standard is in the hands of one company instead of a consortium, and that there's no way to push Steinberg to implement CV. Meanwhile, everyone hobbles off to develop their own.
In an ideal world it'd be something like OpenGL - at least a consortium that'd take these things in account. The original VST spec dates from 1996 - we've learned a lot since then.
These days Reason is the only DAW I really use. Record allowed me to drop other DAWS for audio and the iPad allowed me to drop them for MIDI control of my hardware (something I'm still miffed that Reason can't do but that's another story!). I've never been a huge fan of VST. I've only ever bought a handful of them (M-Tron, ImpOSCar, Loomer String etc.) and always found them clumsy to use in other DAWs. They work just fine but not like the way instruments work in the Reason rack.
So I'm completely stoked about Rack Extensions for Reason. Even more so because of the dongle authorisation system. Sure it's a pain in the arse but I do think it adds value to the software by locking it down in this way. I've always been miffed about paying for software when I know (albeit illegally and immorally) pirates are using it for nothing! I know thats not the best way to look at it but I can't help it.
I think software piracy undermines the value of software. And so for this reason I'm perfectly happy with the pricing I've seen thus far. I think it's very fair, although I can appreciate why owners of existing plugs, that have shown up as RE's, are miffed about having to pay for the same thing twice ..... Although why you would want to own the same thing twice is beyond me. I can only assume that these people think the RE must offer something over the existing plug. Otherwise why on Earth would you bother if you already have it?!
Anyway, Rack Extensions - fantastic, bold and brilliant move from Propellerheads for me. I duff my hat to them and hope its a massive success. I'll certainly be buying stacks of RE's in the future. I've already spent almost as much on them since they were launched than I have in all the yeas using other DAWs and plugs. I'm sure this is the case for many Reason users. All good
dude feel free to pay 70 dollars for "polar"
i'll stick to destroy efx for free buffer over rides and literally thousands of sound mangling possibilities in stutter edit for 150.00 minus the cv control thanks
RE looks like a glaring attempt at a cash grab and will most likely be in the toilet like "record" ,unless enough fan boys/rich wealthy dudes shell out for overpriced effects one can get/already own as VST's
You're basically a cheap skate. Polar is worth every penny - you most probably just don't know how to use it.
I still think this is a massive missed opportunity for Reason (I own Reason & Cubase btw). Reason is a wicked platform let down by terrible, terrible synths. I love everything about Reason except the synths. RE is a great idea but if you own the soft synth already, you should not have to buy the RE version also.
I have tried to explain this in another thread poorly however let me put this another way. The RE model is essentially doing the following when you buy and install a soft synth, say Korg Legacy for instance. Here is the theoretical install screen where you tick what you want to install -
VST - included
RTAS - included (if compatible)
DX - included (at least when it was still used)
Apple/Logic - included
Reason - $49 extra
I have no idea as to the commercial arrangement entered into between Propellerhead and the developers so no idea where fault lies in this deal however I think it is a mistake and a missed opportunity.
Fair enough that unique, new software should be paid for as this will encourage developers to develop for the platform - my beef is only with software I already own (like Korg Legacy). Who will buy again when they can just Rewire into their DAW and use their existing copy?
The only people who bitterly hate Reason synths are preset guys. I never fail to make majority of sounds I need with Reason's synths.
The same guy who made the Nord Lead made Reason's subtractive synths. So they have a great legacy behind them.
****ing corporations, all of them, are being very pathetic in their nasty money milking schemes.
Plus it's very out of touch from them moneyPropellerheads not to think that there are thousands of users with those same instruments but as VSTs. Like, I have Mono/Poly by Korg and many sugar bytes fx, why in the **** would I buy them again? So I can run them in Reason at double the price? No way in hell. Also... No crossgrade path, no nothing. **** them, they won't get a dime from me. And I am still irritated about their whole Reason, then Record, then Record plus Reason, then back to ****ing Reason scheme. OMFG, WTF!!!!!
I am sick of this bullshit. And all this crap reminded me of the ****ing NI Komplete Ultimate scheme (couldn't their marketing ******s grab a dictionary and search for the meaning of KOMPLETE???), which is one of the most insulting garbage ever against the music production community, mother****ers, **** it, **** it **** it, I am sick of this bullshit.
Bad day, I need to vent against all forms of injustice and bullshit. Humans have a right to be ****ing angry at bullshit. Thanks.
.
Hows your blood pressure?
FWIW I'm almost all hardware in my studio, but I find Maschine and Komplete to be an incredible value.
it means if you dare question a redundant expensive unproven corporate proprietary format with a company that has made glaring marketing errors/schemes in the past you will be called names,a thief,an inept musician,a troll etc.
glad i upset people as much as I did with my original post.
I will reaffirm that these RE's are not exactly cutting edge and they are bring sold at top dollar.
I am a registered 6.5 user,bought rebirth when it came out,and also a registered Recycle user.
I paid 165.00 dollars to upgrade from V4 to 6.
there was no "pay whatever you want" on that upgrade.
I have supported reason from V1.
Furthermore I Have registered copies of pro tools,nuendo,MAX MSP and REAKTOR,metasynth, And I use KYMA professionally.
As a supercollider user I find closed formats like RE's limited unhip and stunted.
PH is obviously is company that wants to turn a profit,but again from my vantage they are not exactly pursuing this in a hip,cutting edge way or promoting a community of open ended invention/exploration by it's users.
They want your money.
I am more than happy to use rewire into nuendo or reaper and rock out with the vast selection of VST's and AU apps I own.
Suggesting this seems to piss people off-GOOD!
You've played yourself as a lock step consumer who WANTS to think inside the box.
Why not let some basic scripts and codes out on a pay for license basis so users can design their own plug ins?
That would be worth paying for.
After immersing myself in these other platforms and technologies I think my vantage is a little bit different than everyone else's-perhaps not.
Reason is a toy compared to many of the above programs.
It's a cool toy and a great sequencer,but still a simple mass market product that is far from innovative.
I will stand by the fact that I think the price is too high and too late for too little regarding RE's.
When record came out many people bought it and got screwed as it was scrapped and incorporated into 6.0
Record and audio for reason seems like an afterthought.
RE's seem like a well intended idea that misses the mark by trying to preserve and contain itself into REASON ONLY.
By keeping prices high and the selection of "plug in's " limited it appears pathetic and weak to me.
Thats just my opinion.
You are entitled to have your own-obviously.
Forum users that are angered that i suggest this format is lame and Attacking me and my "character" over this is truly funny.
it means if you dare question a redundant expensive unproven corporate proprietary format with a company that has made glaring marketing errors/schemes in the past you will be called names,a thief,an inept musician,a troll etc.
glad i upset people as much as I did with my original post.
I will reaffirm that these RE's are not exactly cutting edge and they are bring sold at top dollar.
I am a registered 6.5 user,bought rebirth when it came out,and also a registered Recycle user.
I paid 165.00 dollars to upgrade from V4 to 6.
there was no "pay whatever you want" on that upgrade.
I have supported reason from V1.
Furthermore I Have registered copies of pro tools,nuendo,MAX MSP and REAKTOR,metasynth, And I use KYMA professionally.
As a supercollider user I find closed formats like RE's limited unhip and stunted.
PH is obviously is company that wants to turn a profit,but again from my vantage they are not exactly pursuing this in a hip,cutting edge way or promoting a community of open ended invention/exploration by it's users.
They want your money.
I am more than happy to use rewire into nuendo or reaper and rock out with the vast selection of VST's and AU apps I own.
Suggesting this seems to piss people off-GOOD!
You've played yourself as a lock step consumer who WANTS to think inside the box.
Why not let some basic scripts and codes out on a pay for license basis so users can design their own plug ins?
That would be worth paying for.
After immersing myself in these other platforms and technologies I think my vantage is a little bit different than everyone else's-perhaps not.
Reason is a toy compared to many of the above programs.
It's a cool toy and a great sequencer,but still a simple mass market product that is far from innovative.
I will stand by the fact that I think the price is too high and too late for too little regarding RE's.
When record came out many people bought it and got screwed as it was scrapped and incorporated into 6.0
Record and audio for reason seems like an afterthought.
RE's seem like a well intended idea that misses the mark by trying to preserve and contain itself into REASON ONLY.
By keeping prices high and the selection of "plug in's " limited it appears pathetic and weak to me.
Thats just my opinion.
You are entitled to have your own-obviously.
Forum users that are angered that i suggest this format is lame and Attacking me and my "character" over this is truly funny.
Isn't it a bit early to really call a format that has only been around for a few months weak and lame? Maybe its me (btw I am not offended at all at your thoughts on the matter) but I think this can eventually catch on because there are a ton of registered Reason owners out there who only use Reason. Props have decided to really focus on the people who only use Reason and you can kind of see that from their updates in v4 5 6 and now 6.5. Also as a Record owner I do not feel screwed at all. I paid $1 to upgrade to Reason 6 and was good again. I think the pay what you want deal was the only way to go short of giving it away for free. I think Record offered a few things though as far as research data. A) It mass tested the ignition key and made sure that nobody could crack it and almost 3 years in it has not been cracked. B) It shows that a lot of Reason users wanted those additional features and would pay for things like audio recording and really wanted Reason to be a stand alone work horse for them. and C) By focusing on what their core audience wants rather than trying to keep up with the Joneses they have found a way to still keep Reason stable for the most part by their own standards. Most Reason users have no idea what is going on in the digital audio world outside of Reason and have no need to because it doesn't concern them for the most part. I don't agree with everything Props has ever done but I think they have been working towards the direction of being a full on DAW but keeping up with their own standards for years and are taking their time doing so. I wouldn't have even considered Reason a DAW before Record. I always saw it as a plug in rack (think Magma, Guitar Rig, Kontakt, Amplitube) that happened to have a sequencer. If Kontakt got a sequencer people would run around calling it a DAW too. People are calling Maschine a DAW and it is far from one. It just has to do with how people create music and I think Props are starting to give in to how users want to use Reason rather than how they want users to use Reason.
About Re. I think the idea is really great.
But actually I'm disappointed at this time... for third parties, not for Propellerhead.
IMO, Looks like everyone is doing just a rehash.
I really hope to see "Wow. That's the Reason!!" But always I feel "I see that's it again..."
So, I don't care the third party will make anything.
I really hope Propellerhead will make super unique new devices.
That has been my view on RE. I don't want ported vsts. I can just buy the vst and be done with it. I want something new and unique and I am all for that but for the user who only uses Reason I think it makes so much sense. There are people who believe that if Reason had vst support it would be the best DAW on the planet. I am not one of those people but there are those who think it. Reason is my favorite music making app/program/plug in/daw whatever but it has its own shortcomings like everything else.
That has been my view on RE. I don't want ported vsts. I can just buy the vst and be done with it. I want something new and unique and I am all for that but for the user who only uses Reason I think it makes so much sense. There are people who believe that if Reason had vst support it would be the best DAW on the planet. I am not one of those people but there are those who think it. Reason is my favorite music making app/program/plug in/daw whatever but it has its own shortcomings like everything else.
This is exactly why I wish the RE's were cheaper. They'd likely make more money overall since there's already a huge installed user base. Asking 150 bucks for an 1176 clone that only works in Reason is reaaaaally pushing it, CV capabilities or not. Sure, there's many that are much less. I'm totally cool with the ones in the 30-50 range though, you don't HAVE to use them, but if you like them, that's not asking a ton. The Etch Red for example is a bargain when you look at price to feature. Many other developers are doing a good job in that area, but there's a few here and there that...well I don't know why they thought it was a good idea. I can guarantee Softube would be rolling in it if they sold those for 50 a pop instead. Just sayin'.
Wow this is the stupidest thing to get upset about... I for one love Reason, and have watched it grow since 1.0. I definitely wish it had MIDI I/O...but in the meantime I welcome the REs...though I have not found one that I need (or have really even had time to try), I think it is a great format, and I am excited to see what people develop for it. Honestly, basic compressor emulations/whatever are not real interesting for Reason to me...because I use Reason to get OUT of the Pro Tools environment. I usually start remixes in Reason, and finish them off in Pro Tools. The release of more creative tools in Reason is a great way for people to get more of what they want...instruments/unique processing...without waiting several revisions between modules from one developer (Propellerhead), now they can choose what there money goes towards... I see this as win-win. Software pirates, go eat one.
Wow this is the stupidest thing to get upset about... I for one love Reason, and have watched it grow since 1.0. I definitely wish it had MIDI I/O...but in the meantime I welcome the REs...though I have not found one that I need (or have really even had time to try), I think it is a great format, and I am excited to see what people develop for it. Honestly, basic compressor emulations/whatever are not real interesting for Reason to me...because I use Reason to get OUT of the Pro Tools environment. I usually start remixes in Reason, and finish them off in Pro Tools. The release of more creative tools in Reason is a great way for people to get more of what they want...instruments/unique processing...without waiting several revisions between modules from one developer (Propellerhead), now they can choose what there money goes towards... I see this as win-win. Software pirates, go eat one.
Great points all around, agreed it's awesome to see devs getting paid for their creations. I do the same thing with Reason but out to Cubase so that I can involve my hardsynths more and arrange more freely, not to mention use my plugins. MIDI Out really needs to happen though, I REALLY wish I could sequence my hardware in my Reason track without having to resort to Rewire, which as anyone who's used it for any amount of time will attest, is a cool feature, but not something you can get a whole lot of work done on without pulling your hair out.
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MIDI Out really needs to happen though, I REALLY wish I could sequence my hardware in my Reason track without having to resort to Rewire, which as anyone who's used it for any amount of time will attest, is a cool feature, but not something you can get a whole lot of work done on without pulling your hair out.
