advice for a player trying to expand his capabilities in this crazy market
introduction
I'm a songwriter and home recorder working mainly on synthesizer and acoustic keyboard instruments. things are starting to happen for me but I am still broke and am extremely tired of the equipment I have & have had, seeing as I've recorded more than 300 songs on these synths in the last few years.
I'm hoping for advice on what synths to invest in -- both in terms of what might pay off later and versatility of use in ratio to cost.
I'm a keyboard player and I'm only moderately interested in synthesis so analog & virtual analog is of more interest to me than knobless LCD programming-style digital synths. obviously I love the sound of analog synths but I am no enemy of hands-on digital. I have a job that keeps me on the computer 40 hours a week so I really hate to deal with synthesizers that require tweaking a screen. so...
what I have / have had:
Prophet 600 -- absolutely love the interface of this synthesizer but getting tired of it due to overuse.
Akai AX60 -- like the interface OK but I have spent many hours exploring it and I don't think I like the sound.
Yamaha SY77 -- love it, hate programming it. mostly using presets.
Casio CZ5000 -- loved it but hated programming it so I mostly used the presets.
Microkorg -- hated everything about it.
Yamaha CS01 -- great when I had it but so limited.
Yamaha SH09 -- just bought this, good so far!
stuff I don't care about at all:
-- arpeggiators
-- sequencers
-- chord memory
(I get off on playing all my notes)
stuff I do care about quite a bit:
-- quality keyboards w/ sensitivity that can take many hours of fast, rough playing
-- transposability
-- polyphony
-- multitimbrality or the illusion of it
so, what would you do?
-- I'm thinking about a BCR2000/JX8P combination (any advice on other synths that work well with the BCR2000? also thinking about saving for a MKS80...)
-- thinking about a Korg Mono/Poly when I can afford it
-- thinking about a Chroma Polaris when I can afford it
thanks for your help!
Last edited by brattleboro3d; 2nd August 2012 at 06:43 PM..
Reason: adding detail
introduction
I'm hoping for advice on what synths to invest in -- both in terms of what might pay off later and versatility of use in ratio to cost.
...
Yamaha SY77 -- love it, hate programming it. mostly using presets.
I would invest some time in learning to program the SY77. People say that FM is hard, but you just have to switch your thinking around to adding harmonics rather than subtracting them, and understand unless you're making wacky patches that small shifts in operator levels is where you find the good sounds.
The SY77 has nice displays for the operator EGs and is actually pretty quick to navigate once you start to learn the page#s (there always there in the corner of the screen).
It'll cost you nothing, but some time, and the time you spent will be learning to understand sound fundamentals, which will reward you beyond just that one keyboard.
If you're only going to be using presets, you really ought to buy Himalaya's SY77 patch collection. It's 1000x better than the stock sounds, and you can take them as starting points for learning how to program the sy77 well.
thanks for the tip on the Himalaya patches. I'll definitely be ordering those.
don't get me wrong -- I am keeping the SY77. I love it. I love the programming capabilities. but I love being able to mess with as many parameters as possible live, which is why I prefer knobs -- the SY77 is incredibly versatile but it's never going to give me what I can get from, say, the Prophet 600! the immediacy of knobs & sliders is huge to me as by the time I make a small adjustment on the LCD, I have lost a lot of juice.
so to clarify: I'm looking for advice on hardware synths that are easy to program via knobs/sliders and are versatile / underrated / underpriced enough to be worth the investment.
Anyway, I am still not entirely sure what to suggest to the OP sooo...
Roland:
-Gaia
-Jupiters
-Junos
-Vintage SH-xxx
Moog (yeah, they mono..):
-Slim/Little Phatty
-Minitaur
-Voyager
-Vintage stuff
DSI/SCI:
-Prophet anything, except the "thousands" which are samplers
-Polyevolver
-Mopho x4 (maybe?)
-Tetra (unsure if it plays well with the BCR)
Korg:
-Mono/Poly
-Polysix
-MS-20
-Other knobby vintage
Yamaha:
-
Waldorf:
-Any and all, except the small Pulse which has nada for knobs (if I remember right..). Most of their synths came with plenty o' knobs
Clavia:
-Nord Lead
Ehh, there maybe other knobby polysynths. But here is a good starting point.
thanks! though this doesn't help me whittle it down so much! I guess I was hoping for advice on a particularly versatile knobby-slidery synthesizer that might be worth the extra investment.
For a cheap hands on instrument you could look at the Roland Gaia or thr Novation X-Station although some people don't like the sound much. Alternatively a Korg MS2000 or Roland JP8000.
Moving up a little, you could also try a Nord Lead, or for real analogue a DSI Prophet 08.
All these synths have decent amounts of real-time control.
C'mon man!
Leave the poor bastard alone you dizzy prick, you! Anyways.
I'm at a different spot than you in that I still have to work on using sequencers and still wrapping my mind around FM as I have a DX7 and the horrible presets are only motivation for me to learn it when I hear stuff like Brian Eno and Namlook and Inoue get such great sounds out of it.
I too am a knob snob and suggest the Gaia as I'm sure all here are sick of me saying it, but I found it very inspiring just on the interface alone and NO LCD at all. Cheap used ones about and does capable of every basic subtractive sound.
I like DSI's too as the interface is great and it sounds like nothing has and nothing will. Even his earlier Sequential Circuits stuff.
Depends also on your style of music.
Sounds like you need a desert island bang for the buck synth and the Gaia is it or maybe the UltraNova or Venom, thought the latter is quite software dependent.
What is your budget? Lot of us are broke but somehow acquire gear hence the name of this site. I actually took an extra job waiting tables to fund my gear lust when I was younger!!
that JD800 looks pretty sweet. gonna have to look into that. thanks!
re: verve92:
Budget is flexible as my rent is very cheap right now and I'm working full time... so I'd say I could comfortably drop 2 grand on something (or multiple somethings) by the end of the year. that's why I'm thinking of something that's really gonna last. my Prophet 600 remains interesting to me -- I get tired of it and then I get into a new patch or two. my dream is to get an OB-8 or a Jupiter module or something. but I might also save for a Chroma Polaris with the ribbon repaired...
haven't tried the DSI/SC stuff other than the 600.
Where are you with this? Been to a music store to try stuff out? The Gaia is a great little synth. Won't sound like a top of the line VA but if you are gonna spend $2k go for analog.
I say get a Prophet 08 rack and have an extra $500 or so. Careful with vintage analogs they have their own sets of issues and are costly ones.
New synths have return policies if you don't like. But I think a P08 would be what you are looking for, but I am biased.
thanks for the advice, verve92... unfortunately I don't live near any stores with synth selections but next time in NYC I'll try to go to a shop. I'm definitely interested in a Prophet 08, but will it give me a lot that my Prophet 600 already doesn't? are the filters similar? I'd imagine it would be more versatile and reliable (with a better keyboard to boot)...
I hear you on the vintage analogs. any other new analogs I should check out in anyone's opinion?
once again, here's a sound sample so you know what kind of stuff I like to work on.
team up with someone that shares your music preference (and level) that is into production more. (so you can combine forces)
do session work for studios or EDM producers.
focus on YOUR thing. get really good at it and build a reputation.
this is what we all try
__________________ "You must have Chaos within you, to give Birth to a dancing Star" Friedrich Nietsche
For SALE: ATC SCM7 bookshelve passive monitors, Bryston 3B Power Amplifier, Emagic ATM8 & Unitor 8 midi interfaces (16 i/o through USB)
I read your list of interests. Ok, what would I do in your position?
If you team up with someone more versed in synthesis and production, you could just bring your keyboard. Looking for a good hammer-action weighted midi keyboard
If you want to write your own songs (and not use a computer), a workstation would be appropriate. Korg Kronos or Motif, Kurzweil SP4 (or any - K2000 is good and affordable), Yamaha MO6 or MO8 etc. All of these have good keybeds, polyphony, etc. Made for piano players.
If you want RAW synth power, to combine with the Keyboard, get an SE Omega8 or Code synth.
if you want all in one beautiful synth goodness all in one Get a Jupiter 8 or Elka Syntex.
Bring money.
I hope this is of some use to you. Sorry for misunderstanding (I understoon "crazy market" as in crazy market for performing/sellign music and what direction to take - and what instrument is then a follow-up)
thanks for the advice, verve92... unfortunately I don't live near any stores with synth selections but next time in NYC I'll try to go to a shop. I'm definitely interested in a Prophet 08, but will it give me a lot that my Prophet 600 already doesn't? are the filters similar? I'd imagine it would be more versatile and reliable (with a better keyboard to boot)...
I hear you on the vintage analogs. any other new analogs I should check out in anyone's opinion?
once again, here's a sound sample so you know what kind of stuff I like to work on.
I would highly consider building a rack for storing rackmount synths. Having one master keyboard you love and a full rack would be luxurious! That way you can snatch up some good synth/sampler/effects modules, the Motif Xs rackmount being a good modern option.
Motif's and Prophet 08's and vintage synths are different animals. I vouche for the Motif as a bud of mine has on and it is one of the better ROMplers I have heard. He says it is not easy to program, but then again it's a Yamaha!
OP, BTW Like the youtube vid of your stuff. Reminds me of electronic Captain Beefhart
thanks!
yeah, definitely going to look into saving for a Synthex or Jupiter 8. but that might even be outside of my range if I save for a year.
Motif looks cool but I am not really into the rompler sound as much I don't think.
I like the instability coupled with the hands-on control of old analogs. for me, good acoustic emulators basically all pale in comparison to an actual piano.
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