I'm looking for a sound system to use with a digital piano (piano, organ, synth sounds) at home. We have limited space, so I've been looking at:
* powered monitors (no need for a separate amp)
* sealed or front-facing bass ports (so I can get closer to a wall)
* I'm hoping I won't feel like I need to add a sub
* also hoping to have a front-facing power switch (to make it easy to switch to headphones)
Just wondering what you think of the Focal CMS'es? I started by looking at the 40, but can they manage the bottom end? Then I talked myself up toward 50's. And then, well, you know how this gear obsession game goes...
So I'm looking for a reality check. Would Focal CMS'es be good for use with a keyboard at home?
Yes, more than good enough. I don't own a pair but my local audio shop uses them to demo gear so I hear them a lot.
For quality purposes, you're not going to get much better without spending a lot of money.
As for bass, all of them sound ok, but you're not going to be vibrating floorboards with the 40's, possibly a good thing though.. Listen to them if you can. Best way. Might possibly be overkill, depends on how much you have to spare.
Apart from having them all here (impractical), any advice regarding CMS40 vs. CMS50? If CMS40 really does the trick, then perhaps I don't even need the CMS50. Sound-wise, I mostly want that fun feeling when playing -- and I keep worrying about how much bass I need, though I'd prefer not to get a sub.
I'm also certainly open to lower-priced solutions, though nothing has quite jumped out at me (perhaps the Mackie HR624 MK2, or Adam A3X or A5X).
I can vouch for the quality and precision of the CMS 65s. Probably overkill for yourself, but I've heard that their smaller siblings are pretty close, with the obvious reduction in low-end reproduction.
Obviously it's preferable if you were to test some monitors yourself, but I've seen many people plump for the Focals over Genelecs, Mackies and Adams. I find them revealing and not at all fatiguing.
Focal CMS40 and CMS50 are both outstanding speakers. For your applications I recommend the CMS40 without any reservation and worry of low end response. I own the CMS50, and use them for serious recording/mixing work. They are stellar monitors.
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Focal CMS40 and CMS50 are both outstanding speakers. For your applications I recommend the CMS40 without any reservation and worry of low end response. I own the CMS50, and use them for serious recording/mixing work. They are stellar monitors.
Thanks again. Is there some "rule of thumb" justification for CMS40 vs. CMS50 for my particular application? fwiw, I do expect to use the organ and synth sections (in addition to piano) and those sorts of sounds seem more potentially bass-oriented as compared to pure piano.
eg, are there any particular reasons you suggest the 40 over the 50?
Also, I don't care about rattling windows -- but I do hope it'll feel like I'm sitting and playing an instrument, with that sort of exciting immersive feeling.
Sorry, I'm obviously confused! I appreciate any/all guidance...
i have focal CMS 65s. They are AMAZING for mixing...and listening. I will never part with them. I would recommend them 100% to anyone looking for an excellent studio monitor and they are much better than the Adams.
However, if you are just going to use them to amplify an instrument, and do not need their supreme accuracy for critical mixing, i would spend a lot less money and go to Yamaha HS80Ms which will go louder and lower.
The CMS series is not very loud. Before this setup i had yamaha HS50Ms with the HS sub and it was like a club in here when i blasted music....now not so much, although the Focals are infinitely better monitors, more accurate, cleaner, etc...they would NOT be my first choice for your application.
However, if you are just going to use them to amplify an instrument, and do not need their supreme accuracy for critical mixing, i would spend a lot less money and go to Yamaha HS80Ms which will go louder and lower.
The CMS series is not very loud. Before this setup i had yamaha HS50Ms with the HS sub and it was like a club in here when i blasted music....now not so much, although the Focals are infinitely better monitors, more accurate, cleaner, etc...they would NOT be my first choice for your application.
Regarding the Yamaha HS80Ms: 1) I've been trying to avoid rear-facing ports (so I can get a bit closer to the wall), and 2) I'm also hoping for front-facing power switches.
You think Focals are not loud enough? Can you perhaps explain any more about why you don't think they're appropriate for my application?
i already did, in detail. they are mixing monitors, not keyboard amplifiers. they are not really meant to withstand blaring volume from just one instrument, huge random bass peaks, etc. it's just not what you need, in my opinion. your gonna blow them like that, especially the 40s which are NOT loud at all. They are EXCELLENT mixing monitors, but for your thing i would go elsewhere. i have the 65s and they are definitely not speakers to amplify huge bass tones and what not. They do go low, for MIXING when you need to hear a smidgen of sub in a mix, but when BLARING bass notes from an organ, no way!!!
these are gonna go a lot louder and lower, even the 8s too.
another good choice for a lot of bass and they are sealed so not port at all (which tend to get noisy with a lot of bass by itself in the front anyway, playing only sub notes through my focals produces an airy port noise and the adams do too)
In all my obsessive Googling, I read though quite a few threads in which people preferred Focals or Adams to Rokits, so I suppose for that reason the Rokits didn't rise to my short list. Another (and lesser) issue is the lack of front-facing power. And, fwiw, here's why I care: it's also my hope that my daughter (8) will get hands-on with the keyboard, and at times she'll need to switch to headphones. So, it seems to me, front-facing power would be preferable to switches on the back (or to using a power strip to cut off power).
I have a pair of Focal CMS 65's here. I use them both for mixing and also to play my keyboards through. I have a LOT of synths so there is quite a range that they have had to deal with. I also use Ivory 2 for my grand piano VST. I cannot recommend them highly enough. They are absolutely superb for my use.
I listen to everything at relatively low volume. I am careful about hearing fatigue and damage so it just has been my practice to do this. The clarity even at low volume is fantastic. Now, that said, I don't believe they are a substitute for a good keyboard amp cranked up if you want to rattle the room at the low end. I have a Roland keyboard amp for that and it just plain moves more air with the much larger speaker cones so you have physics that you can't fight. I felt that I would use the 65's without a sub and decide later if I ever wanted to add one to get more low end. I don't think it is necessary and, in fact, for mixing, it might even be counterproductive. I am not sure if the 50's or 40's would have worked as well for synths running patches with a lot of low end. This is not saying don't get them. I just don't know.
I had previously used NS-10M's for mixing. They are very difficult to listen to for long periods of time. The CMS 65's have no such problems at all. A real joy to work with. I am sure if you get them you will be very happy.
I don't expect to run them particularly loud very often. I'm thinking "normal" would be roughly the same as a typical piano, or perhaps a bit louder.
I'm not set on Focals yet -- (and I really do appreciate mike vee's dissenting comments) -- that said, are there any particular reasons (apart from size/price) to *prefer* the 50 to the 65, or the 40 to the 50?
...unless you want to blast them all the time with a ton of low frequency because they are not very loud.
I think they are plenty loud unless your hearing is not that great. I also am not listening across a gigantic room so that is another consideration. If you have a smaller space you don't need the extra volume and you may not even need the 65's.
If you have a smaller space you don't need the extra volume and you may not even need the 65's.
The room itself is roughly 14' x 24' x 9' (4m x 7m x 2.5m). The speakers would be near one end of the 24' wall, facing across toward the other 24' wall. It's not my expectation that the whole room will be filled with sound -- rather, I'm shooting for good sound when sitting there and playing (that said, it would be nice if it sounded ok on the other side, for family "recitals").
Does that help in making sense of the 50 vs. 65 debate?
Thanks, I really appreciate all the feedback. I eager to stop shopping, and start playing!
The room itself is roughly 14' x 24' x 9' (4m x 7m x 2.5m). The speakers would be near one end of the 24' wall, facing across toward the other 24' wall. It's not my expectation that the whole room will be filled with sound -- rather, I'm shooting for good sound when sitting there and playing (that said, it would be nice if it sounded ok on the other side, for family "recitals").
Does that help in making sense of the 50 vs. 65 debate?
Thanks, I really appreciate all the feedback. I eager to stop shopping, and start playing!
Can anybody possibly give me a practical understanding of how that last 10Hz would come into play? (The CMS-65 spec cites 45Hz, the CMS-50 cites 55Hz.)
If I would only be amplifying a keyboard (piano, organs, synth, rhodes, whurlitzer, clav) -- I'd be grateful if you can give any real-world advice on what exactly I might feel missing if I get the CMS-50 rather than the CMS-65.
Sorry, I suspect this may be a terrible question, so please have mercy on my soul...
Can anybody possibly give me a practical understanding of how that last 10Hz would come into play? (The CMS-65 spec cites 45Hz, the CMS-50 cites 55Hz.)
If I would only be amplifying a keyboard (piano, organs, synth, rhodes, whurlitzer, clav) -- I'd be grateful if you can give any real-world advice on what exactly I might feel missing if I get the CMS-50 rather than the CMS-65.
Sorry, I suspect this may be a terrible question, so please have mercy on my soul...
The 45-55Hz frequency range can be compared to F1 to A1.
Nicolas @ Focal.
no it start to cut at these frequencies , you hear slighty lower .
but down there the room, listening position ,monitor placement can affect considerably the frequency response ,what you will hear no one know
I love my Focals. When you have a whole mix going you will not notice the (very minimal) port noise, because they are made for mixing a full frequency spectrum. Also, there shouldn't even be a lot of energy in that area in a good mix anyway.
Playing sub notes out of them alone is not at ALL what they are meant for, and will not serve this purpose well. This is the last I will say it haha. Good luck.
I love my Focals. When you have a whole mix going you will not notice the (very minimal) port noise, because they are made for mixing a full frequency spectrum. Also, there shouldn't even be a lot of energy in that area in a good mix anyway.
Playing sub notes out of them alone is not at ALL what they are meant for, and will not serve this purpose well. This is the last I will say it haha. Good luck.
I think I see, so you're saying with your 65's you hear port noise when you play something all low (without the full range to cover it up)?
if you go with the cms50s you are going to be dissapointed. They are not very loud, not to get that feeling of playing behind a piano.
low end is minimal (i mean that growl space filling sound when you play a note in a keyboard). As some had said if you are not going to mix with them. get something bigger like the yamahas or perhaps just connect them to your stereo.
I have the 40's and if you decide to go with Focal's I'd get the 50's at least. They are great mixing monitors but, as Mike Vee notes, they aren't designed primarily for monitoring keyboard sounds...there are other options. I find guitars and VST piano/synth can produce resonant peaks which seem to be handled more comfortably on larger speakers (than the 40's).
In my small home-studio I use the Focals all the time but prefer to use a small stage monitor (or small combo/PA system) for tracking with guitars or VST piano/synth.
I don't have any port noise on my 65's. Not sure why you are getting a resonance with them. I have put some serious lows through them without noticing that issue. I have them spaced well away from walls on the isolation rubberized mats they ship with.
I do agree with the general statement that you are not going to get the same lows you would get with a quality keyboard amp with larger speakers. They were designed for mixing and for that they are superb.
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