Is the value of vintage analogue poly's tanking?

[GYang]

I've seen nice collections of classic synths owned by non-musicians or older chaps who used to play music 30 years ago. Fully restored to original specs and stored in ideal conditions, barely played. Those guys don't need to sell them, probably ever. Such items are valuable and rarely change hands. If offered on market, they are real gems worth higher price than beaten up player's instruments. It seems that same model will be very differently priced over time and most of them will die by definition. Remaining collectors' pieces will become true exotics.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by oobwa ee

I have certainly noticed that some insts like3 Future Retro Xs and Juno 106 are seeming harder to remove at the more inflated prices people are asking. They seems to be sitting around an when I check the ads their still there. maybe people are trying for toomuch or maybe markets are fully saturate

Why would the XS sell for an inflated price? It's still in production...

[cuckoo.old]

I've noticed a few people in Melbourne trying to sell Future Retro's, and for whatever reason they don't appear to move that quickly. I enquired about one that was advertised at $850 and decided to hold off (really wanted an Evolver + didn't want to spend that much cash).
The owner phoned me back about a month later asking if I was still interested at a slightly lower price. By then I'd bought my MEK and didn't need another mono synth.

[catfishmusic]

Some of the asking prices for vintage gear in general, to me is just crazy. SO not worth it. Synth, guitars, mics, studio gear...it's all craziness. Would I like a Jupiter 8? yeh sure. I just saw a dude asking $10k for one. I'll pass on that. They're cool, but no where near that cool.

[verve92]

Shrinking like my nuts!!
Check this out!
BTW This cannot be a new synth!!!
Alesis A6 Andromeda Synthesizer +****NEW****+HOLY SMOKES!+ | eBay

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by catfishmusic

Some of the asking prices for vintage gear in general, to me is just crazy. SO not worth it. Synth, guitars, mics, studio gear...it's all craziness. Would I like a Jupiter 8? yeh sure. I just saw a dude asking $10k for one. I'll pass on that. They're cool, but no where near that cool.

Shit dude, if anyone is about to drop $10,000 for a synth, they might as well just save a little more and get this guy
YAMAHA CS-80 VINTAGE ANALOG SYNTHESIZER KEYBOARD SYNTH cs80 70m 60 50 cs60 cs70m | eBay

This is actually a LOW price too. I've seen them upwards of $18,000!

[itisnick]

Originally Posted by D_Davis

From what I've been told, one of the biggest factors in the vintage synth bubble was a bunch of Japanese collectors buying up everything in the '90s for museums and personal collections.

I knew some guy back then in a band called Moog Cookbook or something, and his synth friends used to complain about this. Don't know how true it is.

Yes you are indeed talking about the 90s but it wasn't everything, certainly not Japanese synths or lower end American stuff, it was mostly a trio of prestige American synths, minimoog, odyssey, prophet 5. More rare obscure vintage synths also got scooped up by curiosity seekers as well as the better relations. I could see how some Americans amassing a big collection on the cheap would be bugged by more people buying and in this case shipping synths that were formerly too obscure and not in demand to be expensive used. I wouldn't characterize buyers as museums by any stretch, the only Japanese museums I've ever heard of are the manufacturers. You still had commercial studios wanting to list key pieces to draw clients. They definitely factored. Successful acts did get spares too.

I noticed in Japan some of the opposite happened in the last decade, people flipping anything with a demand outside Japan. I don't think there is a huge industry but people definitely were buying used gear in Japan and selling at double price plus shipping.

It might be funny to retrieve some very old "are used prices insane" "the bubble will burst" threads.

To me it's a supply and demand situation. Will prices rise or fall at whatever pace forever, no. As prices go up more people who didn't consider selling will get the incentive to sell. Will prices tank, no, as they go down people who couldn't afford the high prices will reconsider.

Will new gear recreating old sounds have an impact. Yes, it will temper rising prices but not make the old gear dirt cheap. Look at the Taurus I with the III out. The one is anything but worthless but isn't spiraling up in price either. Same with an original 303, not skyrocketing, not dirt cheap

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by nebelfrau

Shit dude, if anyone is about to drop $10,000 for a synth, they might as well just save a little more and get this guy
YAMAHA CS-80 VINTAGE ANALOG SYNTHESIZER KEYBOARD SYNTH cs80 70m 60 50 cs60 cs70m | eBay

This is actually a LOW price too. I've seen them upwards of $18,000!

Lol.. have you read the description?

"PLEASE NOTE: The stand pictured in this listing is not included in the auction. We already sold the stand separately in an earlier ebay auction."

and

"The instrument pictured is not the actual instrument for sale, but one of equivalent condition. We sold the one pictured a month ago."

Bad form.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Lol.. have you read the description?

"PLEASE NOTE: The stand pictured in this listing is not included in the auction. We already sold the stand separately in an earlier ebay auction."

"The instrument pictured is not the actual instrument for sale, but one of equivalent condition. We sold the one pictured a month ago."

bad form.

Yeah, I read it. Who needs a stand anyway, mine stays bolted in my car.

Edit: In all seriousness though, if I had actually wanted to buy a CS-80 and it was from these guys, I live close enough to L.A. to be able to call their bluff or not.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by nebelfrau

Yeah, I read it. Who needs a stand anyway, mine stays bolted in my car.

I see he got nearly $2000 for it too...insane.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by Space Station

I see he got nearly $2000 for it too...insane.

Haha!
New thread: Is the cost of vintage synth stands going UP?

[catfishmusic]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Lol.. have you read the description?

"PLEASE NOTE: The stand pictured in this listing is not included in the auction. We already sold the stand separately in an earlier ebay auction."

Over $12k and they can't even throw in a stand.....hilarious.

[verve92]

Originally Posted by catfishmusic

Over $12k and they can't even throw in a stand.....hilarious.

Those things weigh a TON actually 220 lbs or 100kg and is bulky and uneven weight distribution so a custom stand would be needed.
But yeah that is a bit much to not include a stand of some sort. Shite, I'd play it legs crossed on the floor or on sturdy desk. You don't want that thing falling even a 2 feet.

[flat earth]

I still find it fascinating how OB-Xa & OB-8 are still so cheap compared to P5, MM & JP8 etc. I've always seen them as equals (Quality flagship Polysynths).

Mind you OBX have gone off the chart. Again, not sure they are worth 3 times as much as Xa and 8.


It won't be long before 1 osc synths like Polysix & Juno 60 start to catch them up. Thats just ridiculous tbh.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by flat earth

It won't be long before 1 osc synths like Polysix & Juno 60 start to catch them up. Thats just ridiculous tbh.

This will happen once the "desirables" hit a certain point where the only option is the cheap option. Thus, making the lower price point synths more desirable and raising their prices. Everything is going up though, even crappy drum boxes. Though, not as fast as synths.

No comment on the Oberheim stuff, as I haven't ever had my grubby mitts on one, but I can see why the OB-X is on the rise... It's the oldest, and one of their better synths (so I am told, anyway).

[DesolationBlvd]

Originally Posted by flat earth

I still find it fascinating how OB-Xa & OB-8 are still so cheap compared to P5, MM & JP8 etc. I've always seen them as equals (Quality flagship Polysynths).

Mind you OBX have gone off the chart. Again, not sure they are worth 3 times as much as Xa and 8.

The OB-Xa/8 sound quality is just as good if not better than the other brands' flagships, but the envelope speed has always lagged behind P5/MM/JP-8, and the architecture is simpler - no cross-modulation or filter FM available, and only crude on/off mixing. In many OB-8s, the envelope calibration is wrong, making them as slow as the Matrix series and other software envelopes.

Actually, I've seen P5s going for similar prices to OB-Xa if not OB-8 - more units floating around out there and fewer voices helps keeps the price down.

OB-X is discrete, setting it "above" chip-based instruments.

Originally Posted by flat earth

It won't be long before 1 osc synths like Polysix & Juno 60 start to catch them up. Thats just ridiculous tbh.

JP-4 is already up there, because of the Jupiter name and discrete mystique.


After the last few affordable big polys (Trident, OB-8, JP-6, MKS-80) start to climb in price, the second-tier polys (Polaris, Prophet-600, little Matrix series, Marion MSR-2/ProSynth, JX-8P + PG-800 family) will see a surge in popularity.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by flat earth

It won't be long before 1 osc synths like Polysix & Juno 60 start to catch them up. Thats just ridiculous tbh.

Supply and demand. If you want proper tone there just aren't many new options. Ken Macbeth. Who else? Can someone else please start making synths that sound amazing and join in the market???

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd

JP-4 is already up there, because of the Jupiter name and discrete mystique.

Sounds very logical. Personally I tend to believe its because it is one of Roland's best ever sounding synths and some people have cottoned onto the fact that the thing makes magical noises.........pity it happened before I bought one......love that sound!

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by verve92

But yeah that is a bit much to not include a stand of some sort.

Also a bit much to not even include actual photos of a $12000 item.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by flat earth

I still find it fascinating how OB-Xa & OB-8 are still so cheap compared to P5, MM & JP8 etc. I've always seen them as equals (Quality flagship Polysynths).

They are not intuitive to use, especially the OB-8. Not user friendly.

[nebelfrau]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

They are not intuitive to use, especially the OB-8. Not user friendly.

Why not? Seem easy enough.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/oberheim...eim_obx_lg.jpg

http://www.vintagesynth.com/oberheim...8_angle_lg.jpg

[DesolationBlvd]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Sounds very logical. Personally I tend to believe its because it is one of Roland's best ever sounding synths and some people have cottoned onto the fact that the thing makes magical noises.........pity it happened before I bought one......love that sound!

Okay, the way I put it made it sound like hype.

JP-4 is the closest thing to having the original SH series with polyphony. Nothing else sounds like it. Even the holy grail JP-8 merely comes close in sound quality, losing a little envelope and LFO speed in the top ranges and some resonance.

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

They are not intuitive to use, especially the OB-8. Not user friendly.

That's why they have a simpler architecture, and why OB-8s with the Page 2 labeling are more desirable.

Originally Posted by nebelfrau

Why not? Seem easy enough.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/oberheim...eim_obx_lg.jpg

http://www.vintagesynth.com/oberheim...8_angle_lg.jpg

Those give 403 errors

[Diametro]

I think I'm done with vintage synths ... Too expensive, too limited, too large a footprint, fragile and/or high-maintenance ...

I have great respect for these instruments, but by no means does electronic music production depend on any particular category of noise maker ...

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by Diametro

I think I'm done with vintage synths ... Too expensive, too limited, too large a footprint, fragile and/or high-maintenance ...

I have great respect for these instruments, but by no means does electronic music production depend on any particular category of noise maker ...

I hear what you are saying.

I tend to treat my Trident & OBXa with very careful use these days. Sometimes I wonder when I switch them on if its the last time they will fire up.

In a way, that puts you in the wrong frame of mind when you are composing/playing.

[catfishmusic]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Also a bit much to not even include actual photos of a $12000 item.

haha totally. Or like in this ebay ad....Fairchild $50,000.........and he only posts 1 pic that looks like he got it randomly off the internet. Yeh, I'm going to rush my $50k right on over to Denmark Fairchilds are amazing, but again, I'd rather buy a Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, and have $44k for a ton of other great gear....or even a mint used Porsche or something. Vintage prices are insane.


Fairchild 670 Compressor | eBay

[Diametro]

Originally Posted by flat earth

I hear what you are saying.

I tend to treat my Trident & OBXa with very careful use these days. Sometimes I wonder when I switch them on if its the last time they will fire up.

In a way, that puts you in the wrong frame of mind when you are composing/playing.

This was almost exactly how I felt about it ...

Maybe it was just a personal problem lol ...



But that or "the value of analog polys tanking" was not the main reason I sold ... I just needed to free up some capital tied up in my analog synths I felt could be used better elsewhere ...

And frankly, after years of using these synths, I felt it was time to move on and try some other things ...

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by Diametro

I think I'm done with vintage synths ... Too expensive, too limited, too large a footprint, fragile and/or high-maintenance ...

I have great respect for these instruments, but by no means does electronic music production depend on any particular category of noise maker ...

Forgive me for stating the obvious: there are so many "vintage" synths that aren't expensive... like DX7, ESQ-1, AJ1, DW8000 (some of my synths). I got each of these for around $120 or so (they're all probably more now, but not by a lot)... if they die, I'm not going to cry (much), but they're still great to use.

[Diametro]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

Forgive me for stating the obvious: there are so many "vintage" synths that aren't expensive... like DX7, ESQ-1, AJ1, DW8000 (some of my synths). I got each of these for around $120 or so (they're all probably more now, but not by a lot)... if they die, I'm not going to cry (much), but they're still great to use.

True ... but I'm not really interested in anything post-1983 ... (I need a full control surface and VCOs for me to make the great leap backwards ... )

Jupiter-6 is the last vintage analog I would am interested in ...

What it comes down to is that finally there are modern analog choices that seem to be getting it right ...

[Zombie H]

i think 3k for a minimoog model D is an incredible value for the range of tone you get

and from some research before buying it seemed like a better bet than my A6 for lasting another 50 years

unless i drop it or drop something on it i just get the vibe that this thing will last - it's built like a tank with all that wood and the internal component should be a somewhat easier fix than A6 parts

im thinking of getting the optokey for it just to not have to worry about key contacts but thats it

im going to try out a real poly analogue , probably a JP4/Prop5/Oberheim something now in person and that will be it for me - ill pick one or who knows get another A6 as I did like it

the minimoog really killed off my synth gearlust its just THAT tone ive been looking for , i wish you could take the Model D tone and add some andromeda features to it at times...

[Ghosted]

Originally Posted by Zombie H

i think 3k for a minimoog model D is an incredible value for the range of tone you get

and from some research before buying it seemed like a better bet than my A6 for lasting another 50 years

unless i drop it or drop something on it i just get the vibe that this thing will last - it's built like a tank with all that wood and the internal component should be a somewhat easier fix than A6 parts

im thinking of getting the optokey for it just to not have to worry about key contacts but thats it

im going to try out a real poly analogue , probably a JP4/Prop5/Oberheim something now in person and that will be it for me - ill pick one or who knows get another A6 as I did like it

the minimoog really killed off my synth gearlust its just THAT tone ive been looking for , i wish you could take the Model D tone and add some andromeda features to it at times...

Interesting Z. The Minimoog is the one "super classic" synth I've never lusted over, simply because it has no MIDI and no memory. I've heard your demos, and it's raw "tone" sounds better to me than the current Moogs and the Andromeda. Perhaps I should start thinking more like a guitar player