Yeah, I was just curious to see if there was a part of things I was missing as my ears are pretty tuned to my RP8s and haven't had much trouble mixing my stuff down.
This forum is notorious for making me think I need something that I don't, lol
You *need* water.
You *need* food.
You *need* oxygen.
You *want* cool gear.
People share their opinions, and it's good to have second/third/etc. opinions, but the choice always falls on the person making it. There's always 'better' gear out there, but does the benefit outweigh the cost?
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I know enough to know that I know nothing...
I have A7's and want to upgrade. I heard the KH120's and a/b'd them with A7X's in a shop. It was stunning how much more clear, even in the bass end, the KH120's sounded. I tweaked the Machinedrum's 909 style kick drum for a while and the 120's just brought out the envelope, tone etc. much better although the specs would tell you otherwise. I guess the Adam A-range is not for me.
So I'm waiting for the upgrade on the Neumann O300. If I have a chance to go to Berlin soon, I'll try to listen to the Kirsch Q6 and Q8 - very little info on the web but I've read some interesting and raving posts about them.
For dance music Opals offer the most bang for the buck - I went through a few speakers in that price range before I settled on them. Unbelievable tight bottom end responce, and extremely fast transient responce along with a transparency over the full range that not many speakers have - in a way you can see through the sound.
You think there are sub woofers in them - very good movie watching speakers
A lot of 3D depth front to back and stereo width as well, plus a lot of effortless grunt.
They offer a good feel for the club sound due to the grunt and bottom end responce.
You'd have to spend a lot more to get much better
I had Focal Twins before them - and they are more mid forward, and not too natural sounding or accurate. Much slower, less bottom end and cloudy lower mid sound - there is a bulge here. Average imaging and depth. Way too much sheen up top. Made my analog synths sound not so analog....
Do you work for Event? You sure seem to push the Opals alot.
Not that their is anything wrong with it if you are affliated with Event because there are alot of reps on here pushing their own stuff.
Not many people describe the Focal twins as not being accurate.
I had this funny vision of the guy who owns Event as you on here.
He is Australian?
You *need* water.
You *need* food.
You *need* oxygen.
You *want* cool gear.
People share their opinions, and it's good to have second/third/etc. opinions, but the choice always falls on the person making it. There's always 'better' gear out there, but does the benefit outweigh the cost?
You get what you pay for. At certain points along the way you just have to invest in your gear and upgrade to grow and learn as an artist or engineer.
Started with hifi speakers...Rogers LS6's cause thats all i had.
Then Event 20/20's...improvement overall
Then Dynaudio...improvement in bass and highs
Then PMC DB1's...improvement in the mids
but im looking for the next improvement. The PMC's dont like being near the back wall, which is impossible to avoid in my new place. Even away from the walls they have a lump around 100Hz.
but im looking for the next improvement. The PMC's dont like being near the back wall, which is impossible to avoid in my new place. Even away from the walls they have a lump around 100Hz.
I think you got some serious room issues, if PMCs have a lump around 100 Hz. Sounds like early reflections dips.
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Do you work for Event? You sure seem to push the Opals alot.
Not that their is anything wrong with it if you are affliated with Event because there are alot of reps on here pushing their own stuff.
Not many people describe the Focal twins as not being accurate.
I had this funny vision of the guy who owns Event as you on here.
He is Australian?
LOL I wish....
Twins are mid forward so how can they be accurate? They also have a bulge in the lower mids, from some kind of box resonance or maybe the ports. They also have inverted absolute phase - confirmed by others here, and via email from Focal - do search in these forums. They are pretty slow transient wise and don't have much depth, image wise - the sound is just there. Kicks sound funny on the Twins. While the Opals sound very close to my Beyerdyanmic DT880 headphones as far as the impression of sounds and balance goes
if I was an Event rep why would I have Twins in my home studio? (well used to)
now I have -
Previously I used KRK Kroks and still have them as "average speaker" reference
I also went through Focal Solo, BM5a, PMC 2b+ and whole bunch of others for short periods of time
---
And re the PMC , yes even the TB2+ have a boomy responce, even well away from walls. Being rear ported that tends to be the case - they are very room dependant, but I don't think they are all that great, over priced for the performance.
Twins are mid forward so how can they be accurate? They also have a bulge in the lower mids, from some kind of box resonance or maybe the ports. They also have inverted absolute phase - confirmed by others here, and via email from Focal - do search in these forums. They are pretty slow transient wise and don't have much depth, image wise - the sound is just there. Kicks sound funny on the Twins. While the Opals sound very close to my Beyerdyanmic DT880 headphones as far as the impression of sounds and balance goes
if I was an Event rep why would I have Twins in my home studio? (well used to)
now I have -
Previously I used KRK Kroks and still have them as "average speaker" reference
I also went through Focal Solo, BM5a, PMC 2b+ and whole bunch of others for short periods of time
---
And re the PMC , yes even the TB2+ have a boomy responce, even well away from walls. Being rear ported that tends to be the case - they are very room dependant, but I don't think they are all that great, over priced for the performance.
id be interested to know what you thought of the BM5a
do you like the A7X?
i can understand you saying the Focal's might not translate the best because well ermmm yea i gotta agree I've NEVER heard midrange like that on anything before but to my ears its just gorgeous and I liked how they reproduced some tracks i know very very very well in a few genres
to my ears tho they're clear winners over KH0300 - i wish there were some opals around i could demo I've never seen them locally, maybe ill have to try and see a set before buying the twins
Twins are mid forward so how can they be accurate? They also have a bulge in the lower mids, from some kind of box resonance or maybe the ports. They also have inverted absolute phase - confirmed by others here, and via email from Focal - do search in these forums. They are pretty slow transient wise and don't have much depth, image wise - the sound is just there. Kicks sound funny on the Twins. While the Opals sound very close to my Beyerdyanmic DT880 headphones as far as the impression of sounds and balance goes
if I was an Event rep why would I have Twins in my home studio? (well used to)
now I have -
Previously I used KRK Kroks and still have them as "average speaker" reference
I also went through Focal Solo, BM5a, PMC 2b+ and whole bunch of others for short periods of time
---
And re the PMC , yes even the TB2+ have a boomy responce, even well away from walls. Being rear ported that tends to be the case - they are very room dependant, but I don't think they are all that great, over priced for the performance.
Ok so the kid is the Event rep? Can he get me a discount on some OPALS?
Thats a nice setup.
Sounds like the Opals are killer for synth based stuff.
id be interested to know what you thought of the BM5a
do you like the A7X?
i can understand you saying the Focal's might not translate the best because well ermmm yea i gotta agree I've NEVER heard midrange like that on anything before but to my ears its just gorgeous and I liked how they reproduced some tracks i know very very very well in a few genres
to my ears tho they're clear winners over KH0300 - i wish there were some opals around i could demo I've never seen them locally, maybe ill have to try and see a set before buying the twins
BM5a - hyped boomy bass, port resonance, and top end is harsh. Somewhat grainey sound. "small" 2 way speaker sound. Didn't like them at all
Also rear ported = bad. As a general rule, I avoid rear ported speakers from now on....
Only heard the Adams at the shop, top end seem'ed airy. Not much bottom end.
The thing is , mid forward speakers always sound great at the shop when compared side by side with mid neutral speakers like the Opals and O300. But when you work with them in your environment is when you get a better idea how really sound.
I've been told the O300 are voiced similar to the Opals, but without the same level of grunt and punch. More flat and neutral as well - Opals have a bit of colour. Pink noise like is what you would call flat.
Out of the box the Opals sounded a bit coarse, but they smoothed out over a few months and the bottom end got a lot larger. They have a 3 way style sound, even though they are a 2 way speaker.
The Twins are more mid forward, but when I had them side by side, I could make the Opals similar to the Twins voicing, by setting the Opal's lower and upper shelf eq to -1.75 top and bottom. The reverse can't be said though.
Even then the Opals are clearer in the mids, much less distortion, and don't sound dynamically squashed in that region like the Twins, which seem to bury vocals, despite being mid forward.
Because of the distortion, the Twins have a warm lower mid colour, and thicker overall sound, and gives off an analog tape vibe that makes them nice to listen to music sometimes, but that also mean's it's coloured and somewhat cloudy in the mids and bass region. The top end is a bit scratchy because of the Beryllium tweeters - when I started playing my synths and piano sounds through them they just sounded unnatural and too bright. The upper octaves key range on piano sounds are just strange because of this.
Opals are more true to life when you listen to field recordings and play piano sounds etc - we know what these sound like in real life. They have much less distortion in the mids which makes them seem more transparent and clear there, and not sound as shouty and loud as the other speakers I've had here, at the same volume.
When I first played some stuff I did on the Twins, with the Opals, it made me cringe! Because the Opals make things sound so naked and separated in comparison. You really need to work hard to get things glued together or they will sound "bad" and too exposed on the Opals - much like my DT880 headphones
Seems scooped style sound, the PMC TB2+ sounded like that too
Bass was too resonant and boomy, and top end too bright - that graph looks the same....
Plus it has an euphonic creamy mid range tone
And you can hear the delay from the transmission line port in the bass region - gives a stereo spread effect there... you can notice it when you switch to another regular speaker beside it
I got the additional GIK bass traps that I mentioned. Very big improvement in overall clarity, less reverberation, the low end is more 'notey' and detailed and the highs do sound a little less brittle. So I think I will try a cloud over my desk and at least one more trap on the rear wall before getting new monitors.
I use a pair of Bose Companion and AKG K141 when I produce at home.
All you "need" is to get comfy with your speakers and listen to all your music through them so you can "balance" your ears accordingly...
Anyway I'm planning to upgrade with KRK soon..
I am still using my trusty old Event AP8s. In retrospect I should have gotten something nearfield as I monitor with the Events only arm's length away which is not really how they were designed. But I am making tech house and need a nice solid low end to get a vibe going...
When I upgrade I will go something like Opals or Focals depending on my monitoring set up at the time
No chance of mixing low end with punch and clarity with e.g. NS10. No matter how many other tracks you have listened.
I would agree. The low end is the main reason for upgrading my A7's. And although you might eventually be able to mix the mids and highs with almost any monitor, it's more pleasing to work with monitors with better clarity.
Monitors are a really personal question. I think it could be take years to understand which is the best monitor for you. I worked for 5-6 years with Genelec 1030a, now discontinued, great monitor but with a boost on 5khz or about somewhere in the high freq. Range creating some serious problem on my ears, and I was impressed when a famous italian engineer told me he had the same problem and his colleagues too! So scared about it now I use a pair of Adam A8x. They have a less "stress" listening, the best is the precision of the stereo image: that's great because of the different tecnology on Drivers. But actually they are not "the monitor of my life" because of the bass reflex system, too loud for me to let you understand exactly what happens on 100-150 hz. And you need a nice bass trap correction to use them
Seems scooped style sound, the PMC TB2+ sounded like that too
Bass was too resonant and boomy, and top end too bright - that graph looks the same....
Plus it has an euphonic creamy mid range tone
And you can hear the delay from the transmission line port in the bass region - gives a stereo spread effect there... you can notice it when you switch to another regular speaker beside it
Seems I missed something. A 5 dB boost at 100 Hz... crazy... I always thought PMCs are pretty linear and very high end. I'm confused, maybe mixing up different brands...
How about the rokit 8? I hear lots of friends use it
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8, Bit over hyped in the bass, hardly a massive problem if you know though, 6 is more often a better choice. They are not as bad as some here like to make out.
Seems I missed something. A 5 dB boost at 100 Hz... crazy... I always thought PMCs are pretty linear and very high end. I'm confused, maybe mixing up different brands...
That chart was the DB1s from Stereophile Magazine's review...but the studio version sounds like it has the same response. The boost in the highs is easy to deal with by not toeing them in...the off axis response is flatter and how they should be set up. But the bass is very difficult to make decisions on for me. A problem made worse in my case by the proximity of the back wall.
For such tiny speakers they really pump out a big sound. They are a quarter the size of my Rogers but sound bigger. Away from rear walls out in my living room they sound much better, but the lump is still there.
For dance music Opals offer the most bang for the buck - I went through a few speakers in that price range before I settled on them. Unbelievable tight bottom end responce, and extremely fast transient responce along with a transparency over the full range that not many speakers have - in a way you can see through the sound.
You think there are sub woofers in them - very good movie watching speakers
A lot of 3D depth front to back and stereo width as well, plus a lot of effortless grunt.
They offer a good feel for the club sound due to the grunt and bottom end responce.
You'd have to spend a lot more to get much better
I had Focal Twins before them - and they are more mid forward, and not too natural sounding or accurate. Much slower, less bottom end and cloudy lower mid sound - there is a bulge here. Average imaging and depth. Way too much sheen up top. Made my analog synths sound not so analog....
WOW some bold statments there buddy! I REALLY dont agree with!
Personally i cant stand Adams speakers. The Dynaaudio's are harsh to me too. Perhaps it's just me.
- I agree that the Opals are great and very nearly picked some up! They do have a nice bottom end..
- The K+H can't go wrong really. Awsome and accurate speakers and totally worth it!
-I use Focal solo's the two way version of the twins and they are brilliant. They are accurate - sound great (in the right way) and translate very well! I would add that the bass is ok, not brilliant. The twins are awsome but a little harder to set up correctly.
If you're making bass heavy music aim for a nice large woofer. Sub's are good fun but very hard to set up and integrate well. Not impossible just a pain.
I think thats a nice list and you should take the time to demo all of them:
- K+h
- Focal
- Adams (hate them but hey some Love them)
- Opals (If you dont like em you're a little bit mushy in the head)
- Dyna (Like the adams love or hate)
Other not so obvious smaller but accurate speaker (Check out the unity audio rocks) decent speakers with a nice bottom (sealed).
Whats the budget? If there isnt one check out the barefoot range of speakers with integrated subs - very cool design and great sounding monsters..
Took me over 3 years and a lot of savings, but finally decided to settle for the PSI A21M v2 monitors. Haven't looked back since, we're still very much in love with each other :D
Seems I missed something. A 5 dB boost at 100 Hz... crazy... I always thought PMCs are pretty linear and very high end. I'm confused, maybe mixing up different brands...
yes they are. the big systems are very linear.
the smaller ones need careful placing and a lively amp IMO.
the transmission line needs getting used to.
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For SALE: ATC SCM7 bookshelve passive monitors, Bryston 3B Power Amplifier, Emagic ATM8 & Unitor 8 midi interfaces (16 i/o through USB)
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