For you TB-303 Headz, My take on the Quicksilver 303

[Xero]

Originally Posted by dougt

Glancing at the QS install docs it says the USB interface goes in the battery compartment... So the 303 can no longer be used on battery power?

naw, that's not true. I had USB installed via a 1/8 TRRS jack on mine and I can use an old ipod shuffle cable for usb and still use my battery compartment at the same time. There's other options for mounting USB as well, I believe I saw one installed where the "mix in" jack goes, probably not a bad idea either since using that jack just introduces interference anyway (at least in my experience)

although you could just cut a hole for it as well, the problem is panel mount USB connectors tend to be huge.

The other thing is, you don't actually need the batteries to save memory anymore with the quicksilver, so there's not much point of leaving batteries in the 303 and risking battery leakage in a machine that's worth over $1500 these days. Even despite that, I chose not to do this because knowing me, I'd lose the battery cover or something and like still having the option to use batteries if i'm doing a mobile rig. however, regardless I'm not leaving batteries in it anymore which I still think is a good thing.

[deepfriedd]

I just received my 303 with the Quicksilver mod and had a little play! HOW do i hook it up to ableton? i saw a video up the top that shows you how it works but i need the steps on doing it!!! HELP!!

[kpsiegel]

My Devilfish was modified by Robin Whittle to have the Quicksilver 303 mods and I just got it back last week. It is just an absolutely incredible beast to play with. The new Quicksilver functionality allows me to use it in ways that make it much more of a creativity machine for me now.

It is taking me some time to get used to the new way of using it. I have the midi filter control option in mine and it is great to use both in real time and in my DAW. I recorded midi sequences from my Devilfish into Sonar (my DAW) and then replayed them with a controller lane that I drew in to modify the filter cutoff. Worked fantastically well. I have the whole thing clocked with my Sync-Gen II Pro so everything between the 303 and the DAW is rock solid in time.

I have used mine with both USB midi and the standard midi ports. I don't use Ableton but it just works like any other midi device. You program the Quicksilver options to tell it what midi port to listen on and also if you have the filter control option you program the controller number you want to use. You also have to set it up to accept and send midi notes and controller values. The Quicksilver manual is excellent and this is all explained very well in there. I don't use batteries but if I wanted to I could cause there is nothing in the battery compartment.

If you have a 303 you HAVE to get this mod. If you can swing getting the Devilfish mods done by Robin along with him doing the Quicksilver install then definitely do it. There really is no way to replicate this type of setup with samples or software.

Here she is. The sync port gets used for standard midi in. There is an adapter to an 1/8" TRS plug socket that gets midi out. A micro USB jack allows for USB midi. The plugged circles around the Roland logo are where my 32 bank memory mod used to live. This is not supported on the Devilfish with the Quicksilver mods unfortunately due to space constraints:

[Acid Hazard]

Def makes me wish i would have kept my 303 now =o[

[ripe]

Originally Posted by deepfriedd

I just received my 303 with the Quicksilver mod and had a little play! HOW do i hook it up to ableton? i saw a video up the top that shows you how it works but i need the steps on doing it!!! HELP!!

Hopefully I can help you get things connected. First, do you want to sync the internal 303 sequencer or do you just want to play the internal synthesizer using MIDI notes? And do want to use USB MIDI or standard MIDI? By default the machine is configured to receive MIDI sync input over standard MIDI, and the default MIDI channel is 1.

We have just added a new section to the manual (v1.24A) which describes setting up the 303 as a sound module:

The Quicksilver 303 can be used as a “simple” MIDI sound module. This allows the internal synthesizer to be played from an external sequencer or computer.

There are a few setup options that must be properly configured in CONFIG MODE before the Quicksilver 303 can be used as a sound module.

* The MIDI input channel must be configured, to match your MIDI source.
* The MIDI note input option must be enabled. This allows the Quicksilver 303 to receive MIDI note messages
* The MIDI sync input option must be disabled. This stops the internal 303 sequencer from starting with external sync. The Quicksilver 303 will not play external MIDI notes when the internal sequencer is running.
* The MIDI CONTROL MODE option must be disabled.

Hopefully that helps. If you still have trouble let me know and we will get it sorted.

cheers
ripe

[ripe]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

My Devilfish was modified by Robin Whittle to have the Quicksilver 303 mods and I just got it back last week. It is just an absolutely incredible beast to play with.

I'm thrilled to hear that you are getting into the Quicksilver 303!
The combination of the DevilFish and Quicksilver 303 must be crazy!

Would you mind if I quote your nice review for our facebook page?

thanks
ripe

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by ripe

I'm thrilled to hear that you are getting into the Quicksilver 303!
The combination of the DevilFish and Quicksilver 303 must be crazy!

Would you mind if I quote your nice review for our facebook page?

thanks
ripe

Sure definitely quote away!

I have a couple of issues I tripped over when enabling my 303 as a sound module. I managed to figure this out before your post so first I will tell you what I was able to do then I will say what the problems were I ran into. I am running OS 1.24.

I have set the Devilfish up so that it is taking input over standard midi ports from my Axiom 61 keyboard. I mapped the mod wheel as the filter cutoff controller so that works nice and naturally. I can record all the keystrokes and mod wheel movements in Sonar and then play them back into the Devilfish. All good. Basically by recording what I want then setting the recording as a loop in my DAW I can create any length pattern I want and edit if need be in the DAW. I can play the loop back and tweak away at the knobs while recording the audio output into a separate track. Way beyond what is possible with a vanilla 303. Gotta love that!

OK...now the bad news. The devilfish will occasionally just go dead to midi while playing. There is no obvious thing that triggers this. I have to turn off the Devilfish and turn it back on to get it working again. I thought maybe it was getting flooded with aftertouch messages so I turned aftertouch filtering on in my MOTU MidiExpress XT USB. It still might conceivably be a flood of controller messages since there is a bunch of midi traffic recorded from the mod wheel movements. It is also getting midi sync messages sent to it even though it is configured to ignore them. I am not using the USB midi port just real standard midi. I don't know if it would make a difference.

Another way that seems to kill it is to play a note out of range. I don't have midi control mode enabled so I don't think the keyboard accidentally puts it in a new control state. The only options I have enabled are midi in and midi out. The midi in and out ports are both set to 2 and the filter controller is set to CC 1 which is the mod wheel.

Separate from the sound module issues it seems like the filter control via midi is not sweeping the entire range of the filter. The controller can go from 0-127 and when I set the filter pot on the Devilfish at the lowest setting and then take the mod wheel from 0-127 it doesn't open up all the way. I tried setting the pot at the halfway point and all the way up and I can't find any setting that allows me to use the mod wheel to sweep the entire filter cutoff range possible with the pot directly on the Devilfish.

I have found some other stuff when not using it as a sound module but I will leave you with this right now to work with me on if possible.

[deepfriedd]

I want to connect it to my daw using the daws tempo and go from
There. I know I have to select a midi channel and click the "external
Instrument" option from abelton but not sure where to go from
There. I have the audio out connected to my interfaces audio in and the USB connected but I can't hear anything

[ripe]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

Sure definitely quote away!

I have a couple of issues I tripped over when enabling my 303 as a sound module. I managed to figure this out before your post so first I will tell you what I was able to do then I will say what the problems were I ran into. I am running OS 1.24.

Hmm, with the MIDI messages, the machine should handle even an overflow of messages gracefully. We have purposefully tried to crash the MIDI handling during testing without problem. I am wondering if you are somehow getting a hung MIDI note that is keeping the synthesizer from being retriggered. Try quickly starting and stopping the 303 sequencer if this happens (it acts as a MIDI panic button).

You can also email me a MIDI file of any sequence that "reliably" seems to hang and we will debug the issue.

MIDI notes that are received out of the playable 303 range are ignored, so they will not trigger the internal synthesizer, this is normal behaviour.

The filter control using MIDI will not span the entire range of the filter cutoff, as the CPU can only supply 0-5v to the filter circuit, which gives about 5 octaves. The normal range using the filter knob spans about 7v. Using the filter knob as an "offset" controls what 5v range will be controlled via MIDI controller.

If you have any other things to look at let me know!

cheers
ripe

[ripe]

Originally Posted by deepfriedd

I want to connect it to my daw using the daws tempo and go from
There. I know I have to select a midi channel and click the "external
Instrument" option from abelton but not sure where to go from
There. I have the audio out connected to my interfaces audio in and the USB connected but I can't hear anything

If sounds like you want to use USB MIDI.

You will need to enable USB MIDI first (standard MIDI is used by default) on the Quicksilver 303. To enable USB MIDI, go to CONFIG MODE (press FUNCTION + PATTERN CLEAR) then press the keyboard button 6 (note A). The LED above button 6 should turn on.

Now in Ableton, you should see the "Quicksilver 303" MIDI device show up in your preferences. You need to enable "Sync" output. If you want to send MIDI notes to the 303 you would need to enable "Track" output.



To send sync, you should not need to use an Ableton "External Instrument" although you could depending on how you want to route audio into an Ableton track. Also, the MIDI channel should not matter for synchronization only... it only comes into play when using MIDI notes.

cheers
ripe

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by ripe

Hmm, with the MIDI messages, the machine should handle even an overflow of messages gracefully. We have purposefully tried to crash the MIDI handling during testing without problem. I am wondering if you are somehow getting a hung MIDI note that is keeping the synthesizer from being retriggered. Try quickly starting and stopping the 303 sequencer if this happens (it acts as a MIDI panic button).

You can also email me a MIDI file of any sequence that "reliably" seems to hang and we will debug the issue.

MIDI notes that are received out of the playable 303 range are ignored, so they will not trigger the internal synthesizer, this is normal behaviour.

The filter control using MIDI will not span the entire range of the filter cutoff, as the CPU can only supply 0-5v to the filter circuit, which gives about 5 octaves. The normal range using the filter knob spans about 7v. Using the filter knob as an "offset" controls what 5v range will be controlled via MIDI controller.

If you have any other things to look at let me know!

cheers
ripe

The hung midi note might be the culprit but it is not completely reproducible. It is funny cause at one point I definitely had a hung note and tried sending a midi panic from my keyboard but it was ignored so maybe that would be something to definitely put into a future release. Anyway, the funny thing is the hung note at the time made the gate stay open which I always thought was impossible in the 303 so I basically had an infinite sustained note. Would be GREAT if that were actually possible to achieve but in this case it was an accident.

The problem I see in trying to start and stop the sequencer is that if the sync port has a cable plugged in then the 303 really wants to be slaved to sync no matter what but that is what the Devilfish uses for the midi in port. It completely ignores the run/stop button. I may have to use strictly USB for this stuff. I can't test it right now cause I will be busy the rest of the afternoon.

The other problems I had were getting into real time pitch entry mode from an external keyboard and being able to successfully modify an internal pattern from the keyboard. I think I didn't have things set up correctly for this and will definitely have to use USB to make it work so let me try to test that later and see if I can get it working.

[ripe]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

The problem I see in trying to start and stop the sequencer is that if the sync port has a cable plugged in then the 303 really wants to be slaved to sync no matter what but that is what the Devilfish uses for the midi in port. It completely ignores the run/stop button.

Ah, I didn't think about that with the Devil Fish using the sync socket. It should be easy enough to add a MIDI panic function to the TAP button when the sequencer is stopped, that would work around the issue. I will add that to my to-do list.

cheers
ripe

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by ripe

Ah, I didn't think about that with the Devil Fish using the sync socket. It should be easy enough to add a MIDI panic function to the TAP button when the sequencer is stopped, that would work around the issue. I will add that to my to-do list.

cheers
ripe

Well that is one part of the solution. I think more importantly is if the Quicksilver CPU has been configured to ignore sync then it should not cause the sequencer to stay frozen until sync or MMC code is seen on the sync port. The sync port should just be assumed to be a midi IO port and the sequencer should always be allowed to free run if Run/stop is pressed OR a MMC start code is received. That would GREATLY help me given the way the Quicksilver seems to be set up. Otherwise, I have to use USB for midi all the time and this becomes a hassle for me to route signals from other external gear like my MPC 5000 that doesn't have USB midi support. I use the Sync-Gen Pro II with clock feeds to input ports of 2 MOTU MidiExpress 128 XT USB boxes cause the timing jitter with USB out of the DAW is measurably horrible. The Sync-Gen stuff just makes things absolutely solid and the difference is immediately apparent.

I might also add that the Quicksilver should support Midi panic as a message. I can easily generate that from my keyboard controller or DAW. It should respond by stopping the sequencer and shutting off the gate to any active note and resetting the internal value of the filter cutoff to reflect the actual potentiometer value with a zero offset. I suppose it should also cause a memory save to happen since that happens anyway whenever the sequencer is halted as I recall.

If you have any code you need tested let me know by the way. I am more than happy to give it a go. Since there are only 2 Devilfish with the Quicksilver mods in existence to date you really don't have many good options lol.

[xanax]

I'm dying to get a hold of this but still need to figure out a couple things, btw that's one crazy tricked out 303 you got there kpsiegel!

I'd love to hear how the 303 sounds when it is played from a midi keyboard, i know the main interest of the 303 is it's quirky sequencer but i am curious if things like accent velocity respond to hard/soft key strikes? will a legato play tie the notes? what is the full key range possibility?

also i'd like to know if there is such a feature to half/double tempo or add swing?

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by xanax

I'm dying to get a hold of this but still need to figure out a couple things, btw that's one crazy tricked out 303 you got there kpsiegel!

I'd love to hear how the 303 sounds when it is played from a midi keyboard, i know the main interest of the 303 is it's quirky sequencer but i am curious if things like accent velocity respond to hard/soft key strikes? will a legato play tie the notes? what is the full key range possibility?

also i'd like to know if there is such a feature to half/double tempo or add swing?

The Quicksilver 303 is velocity sensitive so that anything above velocity 64 is played as an accented note. Legato playing does a slide between notes as you would expect and it is very cool. The full range is exactly the same as the 303 range right now so there is no difference there. The Devilfish has controls over slide time so that is a nice thing to play with using notes a longer distance away on the keyboard.

As far as tempo changes and swing, I do that with the Sync-Gen Pro II VST right from my DAW and this works really well. You can create sequences of per pattern swing and tempo changes and save them. All of this can be recorded into the DAW and played back so you can totally eliminate ALL of the quirky sequencing of the 303 if you like. This is probably THE most appealing thing for me. I am a keyboard player and am way more comfortable playing sequences than programming them. It is especially cool to play in the DAW with 1/16th note midi input quantization to make it especially easy.

I promise to provide audio examples in the near future.

[deepfriedd]

Originally Posted by ripe

If sounds like you want to use USB MIDI.

You will need to enable USB MIDI first (standard MIDI is used by default) on the Quicksilver 303. To enable USB MIDI, go to CONFIG MODE (press FUNCTION + PATTERN CLEAR) then press the keyboard button 6 (note A). The LED above button 6 should turn on.

Now in Ableton, you should see the "Quicksilver 303" MIDI device show up in your preferences. You need to enable "Sync" output. If you want to send MIDI notes to the 303 you would need to enable "Track" output.



To send sync, you should not need to use an Ableton "External Instrument" although you could depending on how you want to route audio into an Ableton track. Also, the MIDI channel should not matter for synchronization only... it only comes into play when using MIDI notes.

cheers
ripe

Ive enabled both "Track" and "Sync" output. Made a MIDI track and drawn note in it but still no luck... this must be something stupid that im missing!!

[xanax]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

The Quicksilver 303 is velocity sensitive so that anything above velocity 64 is played as an accented note. Legato playing does a slide between notes as you would expect and it is very cool. The full range is exactly the same as the 303 range right now so there is no difference there.

just to be clear, when you say the full range is the same as the 303, do you mean basically only one octave is playable? or is it three (as you have up/down in the 303)? also when playing on the midi keyboard is the sustain the same as when playing on the 303 keys in pitch mode (meaning very short) or does it respond to note off and therefore if a key is held the sound sustains? this is pretty important to me to understand the live playability possibilities..

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

As far as tempo changes and swing, I do that with the Sync-Gen Pro II VST right from my DAW and this works really well.
You can create sequences of per pattern swing and tempo changes and save them.

cool, i'm aware of these possibilities with the Sync Gen, but i don't plan on getting one soon, besides i think it would be cool to have it directly in the 303. half/double time and maybe even swing are available on the x0xb0x with sokkos, it's a really cool feature imo.. maybe ripe could consider it?

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

I promise to provide audio examples in the near future.

looking forward to that! i'm definitely doing the quicksilver upgrade it's just a matter of when/how (i'm in europe)

[ripe]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

I think more importantly is if the Quicksilver CPU has been configured to ignore sync then it should not cause the sequencer to stay frozen until sync or MMC code is seen on the sync port. The sync port should just be assumed to be a midi IO port and the sequencer should always be allowed to free run if Run/stop is pressed OR a MMC start code is received.

I might also add that the Quicksilver should support Midi panic as a message. I can easily generate that from my keyboard controller or DAW.

Our normal Quicksilver installation leaves the SYNC jack untouched. I believe that Robin uses the sync jack for combined MIDI or DIN SYNC.

When a "normal" plug is inserted to the sync jack, it breaks the internal connection between the timing clock generator and the CPU (normally this would be OK, because an external DIN sync source would provide the clock). But if you are plugging in a MIDI source and still breaking the internal clock connection, the CPU won't get clock until a MIDI clock is sent. Normally it would fall back to internal clock when MIDI clock is not being received. The internal clock is used for many things, blinking LEDs, running the sequencer, etc.

So... to work around your issue, you may wish to modify the shell of the MIDI/DIN cable so it does not break the internal clock connection. I would recommend conferring with Robin though on how the sync jack is used on the Devil Fish.

As for the MIDI panic using TAP button and MIDI controller message, I have it coded now, I just need to do some testing.

I would also be interested in understanding why you are seeing hung notes, whether it is the source that is dropping messages, or the Quicksilver which is missing messages. I have tried throwing a huge amount of MIDI data at the QS303 and not been able to cause any dropped messages.

cheers
ripe

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by xanax

just to be clear, when you say the full range is the same as the 303, do you mean basically only one octave is playable? or is it three (as you have up/down in the 303)? also when playing on the midi keyboard is the sustain the same as when playing on the 303 keys in pitch mode (meaning very short) or does it respond to note off and therefore if a key is held the sound sustains? this is pretty important to me to understand the live playability possibilities..

The range is three octaves that can be played right from the keyboard. Very cool.

Unfortunately, you can't just hold a key down on the keyboard and have a sustained note. The decay time kicks in no matter what.

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by ripe

Our normal Quicksilver installation leaves the SYNC jack untouched. I believe that Robin uses the sync jack for combined MIDI or DIN SYNC.

When a "normal" plug is inserted to the sync jack, it breaks the internal connection between the timing clock generator and the CPU (normally this would be OK, because an external DIN sync source would provide the clock). But if you are plugging in a MIDI source and still breaking the internal clock connection, the CPU won't get clock until a MIDI clock is sent. Normally it would fall back to internal clock when MIDI clock is not being received. The internal clock is used for many things, blinking LEDs, running the sequencer, etc.

So... to work around your issue, you may wish to modify the shell of the MIDI/DIN cable so it does not break the internal clock connection. I would recommend conferring with Robin though on how the sync jack is used on the Devil Fish.

As for the MIDI panic using TAP button and MIDI controller message, I have it coded now, I just need to do some testing.

I would also be interested in understanding why you are seeing hung notes, whether it is the source that is dropping messages, or the Quicksilver which is missing messages. I have tried throwing a huge amount of MIDI data at the QS303 and not been able to cause any dropped messages.

cheers
ripe

Good news on the panic function. That should be handy.

I understand your ideas about the physical connection. I can ask Robin about that. Ideally I could keep sync receive enabled while taking inbound midi notes from an external keyboard with the sequencer running and NOT using live entry mode.

I have to spend some time today working on this some more. I have to get to the point where the Quicksilver command sequences are automatic so that will take a bit of getting used to.

[xanax]

Originally Posted by kpsiegel

The range is three octaves that can be played right from the keyboard. Very cool.

Unfortunately, you can't just hold a key down on the keyboard and have a sustained note. The decay time kicks in no matter what.

thanks for clearing that up, still very cool indeed to be able to play the 3 octaves live really opens up the playfield

[taiko]

Just a massive bump for the social entropy quicksilver os for the tb303. I purchased my 303 directly from ripe with the os and midi dongles/usb midi installed by him. He also restored all the pots and all new bright blue LEDs. My 303 is in gorgeous shape. I had some initial setup troubles but spent some time on the phone with John and he got me all dialed in. I don't program sequences on the front panel directly anymore- now I am running the 303 directly from numerology clocked via midi with one bank of sequencers running filter cutoff. I am in awe, stunned, and absolutely grinning ear-to-ear pleased with this rock-solid groove. I am very glad I went this route. I use innerclock's amazing sync-lock and ableton live with numerology and the lock is sample accurate. Having more fun and satisfaction with the quicksilver os 303 than anything in recent memory (numerology with a launchpad is now controlling all aspects of the 303 sequence, gate and cutoff). I have heard rumors of a tr606 mod and will be watching for this closely. Thanks to this forum for bringing this os to my attention.

[xanax]

that sounds pretty amazing, any audio demo of the things your doing with the 303 & numerology??

[taiko]

I'll post a demo shortly. Can I upload audio here? Last night I had the quicksilver303 running under numerology going through a kaoss pad3, with pads going through a midi Murf moogerfooger w/ envelope grooved by a flame clockwork. Drums by tempest and elektron machinedrum. I love this setup- my best ever. I do miss my virus c however.
One thing I am looking for is sweet tempest and machinedrum/MNM patches.

[xanax]

sounds wicked man.. you can attach audio files in the options under the text box if you click "go advanced" in your reply

[mamero]

I've been thinking of building a couple x0xb0x. Can the Quicksilver mod been done on the x0xb0x as well??

[Syn303]

Originally Posted by mamero

I've been thinking of building a couple x0xb0x. Can the Quicksilver mod been done on the x0xb0x as well??

No, the Quicksilver CPU is only for the TB-303.

[noha]

can all of the midi functions of the quicksilver be accessed by USB midi? or must one drill the holes in the case and install the midi dongles in order to get things like midi filter cutoff and the rest of the neato midi functions??

[John H]

Sent my 303 down to Australia about two months ago for Devil Fish and Quicksilver mods, and now it's finally on its way back to me.. Can't wait to get my hands on it :-) Some info from Robin Whittle: "This is the third Quicksilver 303 Devil Fish I have worked on, and the second with the 3.5mm headphone socket."

[kpsiegel]

Originally Posted by John H

Sent my 303 down to Australia about two months ago for Devil Fish and Quicksilver mods, and now it's finally on its way back to me.. Can't wait to get my hands on it :-) Some info from Robin Whittle: "This is the third Quicksilver 303 Devil Fish I have worked on, and the second with the 3.5mm headphone socket."

Mine was Devilfish with Quicksilver mod #2 and the first one with the integrated USB noise isolation board. I didn't get the headphone socket cause I didn't see needing it. I wish I had gotten the switch that allows intermittent or exclusive use of audio in signals. Not totally missed but would have been a cool enough option just for additional tweaks. As though there aren't enough already!

I think it is an understatement to say you are going to be happy with it